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11-03-2013, 12:03 PM
  #701
Draekke
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
As disappointed as I am in this team I think blame needs to be shifted towards the GM but also towards fans.

I will say this as objectively as possible.

1. This Team is not very talented. They have a few young talented high ceiling players that are still learning the game but are far from becoming reliable entities night in and night out.

2. Not only does is the team lacking talent, but there is not enough diversity in style of play among that talent. No 2 way players.

3. In all honesty I only see 2 difference makers in the Minors and that is Klefbom and Nurse. I don't think any of our forwards in the minors are capable of being top 6 players.

4. Nothing this team has done over the past few years have given any indication that this team is close to competing for a playoff spot or turning the corner.

In conclusion the roster is the problem , it is not very talented and what little talent there is on the roster is young and inexperienced.
If it were just us oiler fans that believed that we were as talented as we think, then maybe you have an argument. I'd say the majority of fans of other teams would gladly take any one of our highly touted guys. Saying they have high ceilings, is obviously correct, but saying they don't have that talent, is not. If you were right, all of the analysts would be agreeing with you.

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11-03-2013, 12:05 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
So what are you saying most teams have guys like nugent Hopkins on their third line? We have talent in abundance. Our talent has no clue how to play as a functional team unit.
No. But when RNH gets talked about he gets mentioned as the 90 pt center that he has the potential to become instead of the Overmatched, defensive liable player that he is. RNH has that 1st line potential that can lead this team out of the basement but he is not there yet, he is a pp specialist , and against good teams he over-matched and cant produce in even strength situations.

The Oilers managment has led the fans to believe that they have great talent. But that talent does not translate to production in the NHL .

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11-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Draekke View Post
If it were just us oiler fans that believed that we were as talented as we think, then maybe you have an argument. I'd say the majority of fans of other teams would gladly take any one of our highly touted guys. Saying they have high ceilings, is obviously correct, but saying they don't have that talent, is not. If you were right, all of the analysts would be agreeing with you.
RNH, Hall , Yak , Eberle, and Perron. That is it. You can't win with 5 talented players. Those 5 have a ton of talent but look at the bottom 6 and look at the D.

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11-03-2013, 12:06 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by Nic View Post
If this is true, I really don't understand why the Oilers haven't just thrown a big stack of cash at a Dave Tippett or Ken Hitchcock type of coach. Not them specifically since I don't know their contract status, I'm just making the point that if a coach can have as much an impact as seemingly most of us would attribute to Eakins, why not spend what you need to spend to land an experienced, elite coach?

Hell, maybe even Tortorella was the right guy. People dump on him all day for being a dick, but he has better results than many other coaches at the NHL level.
You don't think the reason they keep hiring rookie coaches is because established coaches don't want anything to do with this sad sack organization? Pat Quinn was a terrible hire because he was way past his best before date but they still treated him terribly by hiring Renney as an associate coach and then promoting him after they canned him. Then they did the same thing to Renney with Krueger. Nobody worth his salt is going to walk into the black hole they've created for themselves here.

I'm not a Mactavish fan by any means. I was angry when they brought him back into the organization and pretty much gave up on the Oilers when they named him GM but he is the best coach this organization has any hopes of putting behind the bench until the entire old boys club is flushed out.

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11-03-2013, 12:07 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
^^Lol fire Eakins he is dumb. Hire TED NOLAN???? Laughable.
and your suggestion is to do what?
I suppose this is all Kevin Lowe's fault...
I see it as proximity to the ice, players first accountable, then coach, then GM, then upper level staff. I don't think getting rid of K. Lowe will do anything to help us in the next 5 years, its not his job to pick the players anymore...

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11-03-2013, 12:17 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
RNH, Hall , Yak , Eberle, and Perron. That is it. You can't win with 5 talented players. Those 5 have a ton of talent but look at the bottom 6 and look at the D.
That wasn't what you were arguing before. You were arguing that they don't really have talent, just potential. That's what I was responding to (even though I didn't quote that post of yours, I now see).

And I disagree, really. Gordon is amazing in his role, Gagner will hopefully continue on his path of 40+ points or more every full season, the 4th line players are among the best in team for +/-. And I honestly believe that it's our defense as a team that sucks, and if we had a number one guy on D, we would have a formidable blue line.

Give us a #1 D, and a top15 starting goalie, and I think this team is fine. It would give the kids stability they need to refine their game.

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11-03-2013, 12:25 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Draekke View Post
That wasn't what you were arguing before. You were arguing that they don't really have talent, just potential. That's what I was responding to (even though I didn't quote that post of yours, I now see).

And I disagree, really. Gordon is amazing in his role, Gagner will hopefully continue on his path of 40+ points or more every full season, the 4th line players are among the best in team for +/-. And I honestly believe that it's our defense as a team that sucks, and if we had a number one guy on D, we would have a formidable blue line.

Give us a #1 D, and a top15 starting goalie, and I think this team is fine. It would give the kids stability they need to refine their game.

1. This Team is not very talented. They have a few young talented high ceiling players that are still learning the game but are far from becoming reliable entities night in and night out.

2. Not only does is the team lacking talent, but there is not enough diversity in style of play among that talent. No 2 way players.



This was my first post. And really i think most will agree. The high potential guys are not at the point where they can be depended on night in and night out.

1. Right now our top 6 can only play at one end of the ice.
2. Their is a lack of diversity of talent in our top 6 and no physicality.
3. No net prescence.
4. No one can play without the puck.


Its the equivalent of having a basketball team with 5 pg's

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11-03-2013, 12:27 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by The Moose View Post
As of now it looks like Eakins is a monumental mistake. I don't believe that the players regressed from last year. Perhaps he is not properly utilizing the assets he has and instead is pushing his system (whatever that is) on players that are not suited for it. The most telling example is the PP and PK. With the same (and better) player than last year, special teams are terrible. This is an issue of system/training rather than the players suddenly turning bad.

In hindsight, we should have stuck with Kruger for another season. He definitely did not get a fair shake, with just half a season.
while this is true, he surely didn't get a fair shake.... we can't fire yet another coach right now.... all this does is tell the kids that they never need to learn how to play within a system... we need to stick with eakins for better or worse now

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11-03-2013, 12:29 PM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
1. This Team is not very talented. They have a few young talented high ceiling players that are still learning the game but are far from becoming reliable entities night in and night out.

2. Not only does is the team lacking talent, but there is not enough diversity in style of play among that talent. No 2 way players.



This was my first post. And really i think most will agree. The high potential guys are not at the point where they can be depended on night in and night out.

1. Right now our top 6 can only play at one end of the ice.
2. Their is a lack of diversity of talent in our top 6 and no physicality.
3. No net prescence.
4. No one can play without the puck.


Its the equivalent of having a basketball team with 5 pg's
I agree with everything your saying I would just word it different. Having a net presence and playing without the puck doesn't require talent just a commitment to do so. You can have no talent and make a career of just doing these things. See Ryan Smyth.

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11-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
while this is true, he surely didn't get a fair shake.... we can't fire yet another coach right now.... all this does is tell the kids that they never need to learn how to play within a system... we need to stick with eakins for better or worse now
Better to fire Eakins and hire a coach that knows what he's doing and commands some actual respect from the player group, than stick with someone who is way out of his depth and is fumbling his way around.

Sticking with the worst coach the team has hired since Pat Quinn just because, makes no sense at all.

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11-03-2013, 12:33 PM
  #711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
1. This Team is not very talented. They have a few young talented high ceiling players that are still learning the game but are far from becoming reliable entities night in and night out.

2. Not only does is the team lacking talent, but there is not enough diversity in style of play among that talent. No 2 way players.



This was my first post. And really i think most will agree. The high potential guys are not at the point where they can be depended on night in and night out.

1. Right now our top 6 can only play at one end of the ice.
2. Their is a lack of diversity of talent in our top 6 and no physicality.
3. No net prescence.
4. No one can play without the puck.


Its the equivalent of having a basketball team with 5 pg's
Metafor is lost on this oiler fan, who hasn't watched a single basketball game in his life, unless forced. Lol.

I guess I see your point, but don't like how you word it. They have talent. We both agree. They just haven't been able to translate that consistently (or stay healthy ffs, in order to keep it up).

It's more the fan's and management's fault that we expected them to play on that top level consistently, though. Not their fault they got thrown in the fire, expected to cook and not burn.

And no one will disagree that we need more size...

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11-03-2013, 12:37 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Better to fire Eakins and hire a coach that knows what he's doing and commands some actual respect from the player group, than stick with someone who is way out of his depth and is fumbling his way around.

Sticking with the worst coach the team has hired since Pat Quinn just because, makes no sense at all.
This has to be something that MacT is thinking about... This team can't be worse than last year's team... kids are older, RNH is healthy, Dubnyk coming off best year yet, new infusion of actual FA's that have a positive effect...

Yet it is.

Though, I am also of the mindset that one of the reasons that the kids are floundering, is that lack of consistency. Dammit, I wish we could get a relevant coach to shape this team. I am in agreement with boomercat... I doubt we have many option left any more...

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11-03-2013, 12:39 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
I agree with everything your saying I would just word it different. Having a net presence and playing without the puck doesn't require talent just a commitment to do so. You can have no talent and make a career of just doing these things. See Ryan Smyth.
I must say being a net prescence is talent. Talent for the oilers for too long has meant dangles and toe drags and skating ability. But What Lucic, hartnell, Simmonds, Dustin Brown, etc do is talent as well. If that did not require talent then their would be more players like that.

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11-03-2013, 12:46 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I must say being a net prescence is talent. Talent for the oilers for too long has meant dangles and toe drags and skating ability. But What Lucic, hartnell, Simmonds, Dustin Brown, etc do is talent as well. If that did not require talent then their would be more players like that.
Having size and physicality is absolutely a talent but you don't have to be big to drive the net and score some greasy goals you just have to be willing. Look at the big players on Detroit last night Datsyuk, Zetterburg these aren't big physical guys but they are willing to go to the net to do what it takes to win games.

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11-03-2013, 12:50 PM
  #715
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Having size and physicality is absolutely a talent but you don't have to be big to drive the net and score some greasy goals you just have to be willing. Look at the big players on Detroit last night Datsyuk, Zetterburg these aren't big physical guys but they are willing to go to the net to do what it takes to win games.
We have maybe 2 players that would do that consistently, Hall and Joensuu..both hurt

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11-03-2013, 12:52 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
Having size and physicality is absolutely a talent but you don't have to be big to drive the net and score some greasy goals you just have to be willing. Look at the big players on Detroit last night Datsyuk, Zetterburg these aren't big physical guys but they are willing to go to the net to do what it takes to win games.

They go to the net because freaking RNH and EBERLE are all that is between them and the net. Z and Datsyuk are very physical. They are extremely strong and great on the boards. Datsyuk may have the strongest wrists in the league.

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11-03-2013, 01:00 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
They go to the net because freaking RNH and EBERLE are all that is between them and the net. Z and Datsyuk are very physical. They are extremely strong and great on the boards. Datsyuk may have the strongest wrists in the league.
When Datsyuk entered the league he was considered a small skilled one dimensional forward. His all around game isn't god given talent it was learned.

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11-03-2013, 01:04 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
When Datsyuk entered the league he was considered a small skilled one dimensional forward. His all around game isn't god given talent it was learned.
An all around game learned on stacked teams, surrounded by some of the best two way players in the game, with some of the best coaches in the business.

Datsyuk in his formative years playing for a poorly run team like the Oilers probably doesn't develop into the player he is today.

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11-03-2013, 01:05 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
An all around game learned on stacked teams, surrounded by some of the best two way players in the game, with some of the best coaches in the business.

Datsyuk in his formative years playing for a poorly run team like the Oilers probably doesn't develop into the player he is today.
Not arguing that.

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11-03-2013, 01:06 PM
  #720
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An all around game learned on stacked teams, surrounded by some of the best two way players in the game, with some of the best coaches in the business.

Datsyuk in his formative years playing for a poorly run team like the Oilers probably doesn't develop into the player he is today.
Agreed. You don't get minutes for the red wings until you learn that hockey is a 2 way game.

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11-03-2013, 01:39 PM
  #721
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They are injured and young, but it's the lack of compete that is damning and the Edmonton fans see that.

Which players show they want to win?

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11-03-2013, 02:18 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by The Moose View Post
As of now it looks like Eakins is a monumental mistake. I don't believe that the players regressed from last year. Perhaps he is not properly utilizing the assets he has and instead is pushing his system (whatever that is) on players that are not suited for it. The most telling example is the PP and PK. With the same (and better) player than last year, special teams are terrible. This is an issue of system/training rather than the players suddenly turning bad.

In hindsight, we should have stuck with Kruger for another season. He definitely did not get a fair shake, with just half a season.
Hindsight? Changing coaches after a 48 game season in which the team did better than it had in years was a joke from the start.

These being my initial reactions, of course I was shouted out of the thread with several suggestions I was being negative for the sake of it.;


Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement
What a joke of an org. The Coaching revolving door continues and with that player entitlement, always knowing coach will be made to walk the plank, and no player accountability ever.

Gotta love it.

MacT should know better. WTF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement
What I'm talking about is the players will recognize that whatever incoming flunky ends up coming here will be the coach of the year candidate with feet in the fire at the end of season as the players coast through another year paying no attention whatsoever to team system play and what coaches are telling them.

The number 1 concern I have with this group of players is their accountability to coach, any coach. Because they know damn well who walks the plank here everytime.

This is a cluster****.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...eakins&page=19


Fun to look back in past threads sometimes to see how much some opinions have changed.

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11-03-2013, 02:23 PM
  #723
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Dallas Eakins' Daughter Has Heartbreaking Encounter (VIDEO)

"Dallas Eakins' Daughter Has Heartbreaking Encounter (VIDEO) "
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/11...n_4205776.html


I love the Oilers, but even I know its a game.

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11-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Arpeggio View Post
Well hearing that your Dad is bad at his job, or should be fired, or more likely (considering the age group), sucks, is not anything a younger child should have to deal with.

Edit: I'm just saying we should not be justifying the heckling of athletes outside of the sports arena. People will say it comes with the territory, but I'd argue that that's a sad indictment of the territory more than anything else.
Exactly. People defending this is BS. Its a %^&#&*% sport people. It in no way drastically affects your lives. He is a coach new to the NHL. Talk of firing him (Another coach fired, brilliant) is just stupid on so many levels. Oh hi I'm new to the boards by the way.

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11-03-2013, 02:44 PM
  #725
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"Dallas Eakins' Daughter Has Heartbreaking Encounter (VIDEO) "
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/11...n_4205776.html


I love the Oilers, but even I know its a game.
This should never happen; what's really sad about it is some young kid is screaming it.

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