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Old
12-15-2006, 03:27 PM
  #26
The Fuhr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Seven View Post
The observation about too many AHL players on the Sens is right on. Denis Hamel and Serge Payer are career AHLers, Hennesey is not ready for the show yet and Kelly on the first line is a joke.

Muckler has gutted this team of its depth and they are very prone if one or two of their core players gets hurt. Bozo the Clown would be a better GM at this point

All that said, if the Sens are 100% healthy they should make the playoffs but all bets are off if the injury bug takes out a player or two.
I strongly disagree. Its just that our solid depth happens to be in Russia right now. IE. Mirnov,Lyamin,Anikeyenko,Nikulin,Zubov and Megalinsky. Then we have Bass and Kudelka who will be playing in Bingo next year and both will be NHLers and thats not including top prospects like Hennessy and Lee.

The majority of Sens players on the roster are young too Eaves and Meszaros look like solid pick ups at the draft by Muckler.

I cant agree with you saying Muckler has gutted the depth of the team. He has done a good job at keeping a system full and intact.

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12-15-2006, 04:12 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I strongly disagree. Its just that our solid depth happens to be in Russia right now. IE. Mirnov,Lyamin,Anikeyenko,Nikulin,Zubov and Megalinsky. Then we have Bass and Kudelka who will be playing in Bingo next year and both will be NHLers and thats not including top prospects like Hennessy and Lee.

The majority of Sens players on the roster are young too Eaves and Meszaros look like solid pick ups at the draft by Muckler.

I cant agree with you saying Muckler has gutted the depth of the team. He has done a good job at keeping a system full and intact.

Last year we were the 3rd youngest team in the nhl weren't we?

What are we this year?

Is it possible we're expected to peak to early?

Obviously we were ooozzzing with talent last year, so thats no excuse.

Just a thought

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12-15-2006, 04:20 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Brandi View Post
Last year we were the 3rd youngest team in the nhl weren't we?

What are we this year?

Is it possible we're expected to peak to early?

Obviously we were ooozzzing with talent last year, so thats no excuse.

Just a thought
I believe we are second youngest behind the Pens this season.

Its a main reason why I am not too concerned with the Sens play. Youth has troubles at the NHL level, soon as special teams picks up we will be fine. The new players are learning there roles.

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Old
12-15-2006, 05:05 PM
  #29
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Fire Murray, hire Burns. Very true statement. I don`t like Murray`s presence at all. He doesn`t make very good moves inside the game.

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12-15-2006, 05:25 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I do think Corvo is an awesome pick up. Hes playing out of his role without Redden in the lineup.
What is his role exactly? He was paired with either Redden or Phillips when the defense is healthy and he's playing exactly the same minutes right now anyway. He's not playing out of his role, he's playing the only way he's capable of playing. This is the Efenseman (I left the "D" out for a reason) we signed unfortunately.

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12-15-2006, 05:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
What is his role exactly? He was paired with either Redden or Phillips when the defense is healthy and he's playing exactly the same minutes right now anyway. He's not playing out of his role, he's playing the only way he's capable of playing. This is the Efenseman (I left the "D" out for a reason) we signed unfortunately.
I like offense oriented defenseman that can get between 50-60 points for 2.5 million dollars. I think we hear in Ottawa have got Jacques Martin hockey engraved into our heads. I like offense and when paired with Redden I thought Corvo looked great. I like the signing.

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12-15-2006, 06:03 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I think we hear in Ottawa have got Jacques Martin hockey engraved into our heads.
I don't think it's too much to expect a defenseman to know how to play defense adequately. This has nothing to do with Jacques Martin hockey, it has everything to do with basic defensive fundamentals. I realize he's an offensive defenseman, but that's no excuse for the defensive mistakes he makes.

He's making $2.6M, and with Redden out of the lineup, is the most expensive defenseman on the team. It's not unreasonable to expect this guy to step up, when you consider that younger players in Meszaros and Volchenkov have in the absence of Redden.

If he can't play in a certain role, then that's his problem. The Sens invested enough money in him that he should be able to do it.

Towards the end of the Nashville game, the pairings got switched around with Preissing moving up and Corvo moving down. I wouldn't mind seeing those again next game.

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12-15-2006, 06:12 PM
  #33
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I dont mind so much about the defense if he is doing a good job in the offensive end. I watch a fair bit of Toronto games and I seen a guy who plays physical, has an amazing point shot and is suspect defensivly get paid 5.75 million dollars per season. I can live with Corvos lack of defense for 50-60 points a season.

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12-15-2006, 08:22 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
I dont mind so much about the defense if he is doing a good job in the offensive end. I watch a fair bit of Toronto games and I seen a guy who plays physical, has an amazing point shot and is suspect defensivly get paid 5.75 million dollars per season. I can live with Corvos lack of defense for 50-60 points a season.
Maybe you can live with Corvo's lack of defense, but the team certainly can't afford that. He has 19 points, but is still a -7. That's horrendous stats for a defenceman. Ofcourse, stats doesn't say everything, we you can see it with your own eyes how back breaking those goals are - they directly result in losses.

So would you rather have his 50-60 points than the losses that accumulate as a result of those soft goals which should never have happened?

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12-15-2006, 08:36 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by armani View Post
Maybe you can live with Corvo's lack of defense, but the team certainly can't afford that. He has 19 points, but is still a -7. That's horrendous stats for a defenceman. Ofcourse, stats doesn't say everything, we you can see it with your own eyes how back breaking those goals are - they directly result in losses.

So would you rather have his 50-60 points than the losses that accumulate as a result of those soft goals which should never have happened?
That can go both ways.
How about having a defencemen who is in the + , but doesn't get as much ice time, and averages a few goals a year. His plus minus is better, but he doesn't even get as much ice time as someone of the other D.

You're right, stats dont' mean everything.

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12-15-2006, 08:38 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by armani View Post
Maybe you can live with Corvo's lack of defense, but the team certainly can't afford that. He has 19 points, but is still a -7. That's horrendous stats for a defenceman. Ofcourse, stats doesn't say everything, we you can see it with your own eyes how back breaking those goals are - they directly result in losses.

So would you rather have his 50-60 points than the losses that accumulate as a result of those soft goals which should never have happened?
I don't mind the goals that come against for 2.5 million dollars.

Last year


Gonchar 58 points -13 (5 million per year)
Mara 47 points -12 (3 million per year)

This season


Salei 21 points -7 (3 million per year)
Rafalski 19 points -8 (4.2,UFA at season end)
Pitkanen 16 points -16 (2.0, RFA at seasons end)
Blake 15 points -6 (6.0 per year)
Ohlund 14 points -5 (3.5 per year)
Johnsson 10 points -6 (4.8 per year)

Meszaros -8 (But hes only 21)

Ya I think I can live with Corvos 19 points and -7 at 2.5 million dollars per year.

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12-15-2006, 08:42 PM
  #37
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Corvo has been -5 since the game against Washington
Volchenkov has been -4 since the game against Wahington

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12-15-2006, 08:48 PM
  #38
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My point is that Corvo, with all his offensive STATS, has been more of a liability because of his overall defensive lapses. Would you dispute that?

That's right, stats doesn't say everything. He is on pace to score 60 points, but Corvo has been the worst full-time (non minor call-up) d-man the team has seen since Jason York's final year with the team.

If Murray wasn't on helm, maybe someone else would use him as a PP specialist who would play 3rd pairing minutes. Right now, he deserves nothing more than 6th d-man minutes IMHO. It's not like he is struggling on his new team, as has been the case with Preissing. Corvo NEVER had the defensive game to begin with and I don't know if it's fair for us to expect him to change his game all of a sudden. Simply put, the less you put him on a defensive situation, the much better it is for Ottawa's defense. He should play power plays and 6th D even strength minutes.

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12-15-2006, 08:58 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armani View Post
My point is that Corvo, with all his offensive STATS, has been more of a liability because of his overall defensive lapses. Would you dispute that?

That's right, stats doesn't say everything. He is on pace to score 60 points, but Corvo has been the worst full-time (non minor call-up) d-man the team has seen since Jason York's final year with the team.

If Murray wasn't on helm, maybe someone else would use him as a PP specialist who would play 3rd pairing minutes. Right now, he deserves nothing more than 6th d-man minutes IMHO. It's not like he is struggling on his new team, as has been the case with Preissing. Corvo NEVER had the defensive game to begin with and I don't know if it's fair for us to expect him to change his game all of a sudden. Simply put, the less you put him on a defensive situation, the much better it is for Ottawa's defense. He should play power plays and 6th D even strength minutes.
I think though that if the Sens can develop Corvos defensive game he will have a steal of a contract. Perhaps Murray is not the right coach for this but its what I believe the team is trying to do.

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12-15-2006, 09:30 PM
  #40
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Well i think Murray is known as a defensive coach like Burns isnt he. Corvo has been thrust into top 4 situations, but with Redden Phillips Meszaros Volchenkov, i think he's more a role player. Exactly as LA fans described. His salary has to be put into context of the new higher salaries for young defensmen under a salary cap. He's better offensively than Pothier I think. He has moments of good defense. But he does have some good strengths.

I know we're sick of this, but i think you have to put Muckler into context. He didnt gut this team. It was the new cba that gutted the team. No one cares about that now, except you have to evaluate in that context if you are looking for the best interests of the team. Given we had too much talent for the new NHL, how do you get rid of 3 elite players in the most efficient way. Dont blame him because we had to get rid of 3 players, that makes no sense. He didnt choose to gut the team, if you listen to him, he is really angry about it as are many GMs.

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12-15-2006, 11:00 PM
  #41
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yeah Murray is staying, anyone hoping for a new coach can forget about it since the team recovered from their free-fall.

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Old
12-16-2006, 12:00 AM
  #42
The Mars Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
Corvo has been -5 since the game against Washington
Volchenkov has been -4 since the game against Wahington
Not surprising considering he's been paired with Corvo.

Quote:
Salei 21 points -7 (3 million per year)
Rafalski 19 points -8 (4.2,UFA at season end)
Pitkanen 16 points -16 (2.0, RFA at seasons end)
Blake 15 points -6 (6.0 per year)
Ohlund 14 points -5 (3.5 per year)
Johnsson 10 points -6 (4.8 per year)
And I would take all those guys over Corvo. This isn't all about the numbers. Corvo is only in Salei's league, all the others are much better. Despite their poor +/-, they are still much better defensively.

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12-16-2006, 12:58 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
And I would take all those guys over Corvo. This isn't all about the numbers. Corvo is only in Salei's league, all the others are much better. Despite their poor +/-, they are still much better defensively.
Rafalski 19 points -8 (4.2,UFA at season end)
23 hits 33 blocked shots +14 give aways
18:02ES 1:35SH

Pitkanen 16 points -16 (2.0, RFA at seasons end)
12 hits 56 blocked shots +14 give aways
17:05ES 2:08SH

Blake 15 points -6 (6.0 per year)
42 hits 57 blocked shots +29 give aways
15:09ES 3:09SH

Ohlund 14 points -5 (3.5 per year)
50 hits 35 blocked shots +7 give aways
17:00ES 3:42SH

Johnsson 10 points -6 (4.8 per year)
16 hits 49 blocked shots +6 take aways
17:25ES 4:09SH

Corvo 19 points -7 (2.5 per year)
20 hits 33 blocked shots +2 give aways
16:01ES 2:08SH

The only defenseman I would take over Corvo right now is Ohlund. (Pitkanen if we are talking about the future)

Is Rafalski worth 1.7 million dollars more then Corvo?
blake worth 3.5 million dollars more then Corvo?
Johnsson worth 2.3 million dollars more then Corvo?

I don't think so.

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12-16-2006, 05:11 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armani View Post
Corvo NEVER had the defensive game to begin with and I don't know if it's fair for us to expect him to change his game all of a sudden. Simply put, the less you put him on a defensive situation, the much better it is for Ottawa's defense.
Well, in all fairness... it did take a good 10 games for us to start really noticing problems. He was adequate in those games as the team was playing well and the goalie was letting us down at that point. The better the team plays, the better he'll look. The better our coach is, the better he'll look. This isn't a guy you want freewheeling in the defensive zone when times are bad. The more the coach thinks for him, the better.
That said, when we get manage to piece ourselves back together again... Corvo will be fine in a top-4, PP QB situation.

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12-16-2006, 01:34 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
Well i think Murray is known as a defensive coach like Burns isnt he. Corvo has been thrust into top 4 situations, but with Redden Phillips Meszaros Volchenkov, i think he's more a role player. Exactly as LA fans described. His salary has to be put into context of the new higher salaries for young defensmen under a salary cap. He's better offensively than Pothier I think. He has moments of good defense. But he does have some good strengths.

I know we're sick of this, but i think you have to put Muckler into context. He didnt gut this team. It was the new cba that gutted the team. No one cares about that now, except you have to evaluate in that context if you are looking for the best interests of the team. Given we had too much talent for the new NHL, how do you get rid of 3 elite players in the most efficient way. Dont blame him because we had to get rid of 3 players, that makes no sense. He didnt choose to gut the team, if you listen to him, he is really angry about it as are many GMs.

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12-16-2006, 01:41 PM
  #46
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Sorry but Mucker has effectively gutted the team. I admit this was in response to the CBA but what is terribly disappointing is the horrible return he has achieved in trades to restock the team. As pointed out by someone in an earlier observation the Sens have depth in Russia which is wonderful if you are the coach of Moscow Dynamo but not so great if you are hoping to see depth in the Ottawa line-up very soon. Kaigoradov is a good caveat of how badly Muckler has misjudged the upcoming talent as he trumpeted him as a starting second line centre before the guy was even in training camp. Until there is a sweep of upper management the Sens will never win the Cup I'm afraid.

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12-16-2006, 02:02 PM
  #47
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Burns for sure.

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Old
12-16-2006, 03:14 PM
  #48
The Fuhr
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Originally Posted by Silver Seven View Post
Sorry but Mucker has effectively gutted the team. I admit this was in response to the CBA but what is terribly disappointing is the horrible return he has achieved in trades to restock the team. As pointed out by someone in an earlier observation the Sens have depth in Russia which is wonderful if you are the coach of Moscow Dynamo but not so great if you are hoping to see depth in the Ottawa line-up very soon. Kaigoradov is a good caveat of how badly Muckler has misjudged the upcoming talent as he trumpeted him as a starting second line centre before the guy was even in training camp. Until there is a sweep of upper management the Sens will never win the Cup I'm afraid.
You want to get value for your picks. Teams stayed away from Russia because of the CBA so the Sens went over they and grabbed the best Russians in the draft that they could. The Sens have one of the deeper farm systems in the league. Sure its not as good as the Blues or the Kings (two of my favourit systems) but it does have lots of NHL potential in it. Hell HF has Kudelka as the Sens 17th best prospect and he has 26 points in 30 games and plays in every situation. One of the best defensemen in the WHL. I think you are completely wrong on your assessment of the Sens farm system.

As for his trades he turned Hossa into a 50 goal scorer saving the team 3.5 million dollars in the process.
Turned a defenseman in Gleason that was going to re enter the draft into Smolinski who was a good player for the team.
Never traded core peospects or 1st rd picks at the trade deadline.
Kept 1st rd picks which have turned into (Eaves,Meszaros,Lee and Folingo)
Traded Havlat for barika,Hennessy,Preissing,and 2nd rd pick. (Jurys still out on this deal but we will see how it turns out in 3 years)

How again is that a bad job?


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12-16-2006, 03:51 PM
  #49
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I am not disputing the Sens drafting record as Frank Jay has done a very good job. The problem is Muckler's trading record which I think most Sens fans would agree is spotty.

Bochenski and second round pick for Arnason?
Gleason to LA who flipped the pick later for Super Prospect Jack Johnston?
Second round pick for Bondra?
Havlat trade ---- can't believe Muckler didn't do better --- at least get a players and First Round Pick for one of the most exciting young players in the league.

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12-16-2006, 04:03 PM
  #50
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Leclair is terrible - he's the antithesis of everything the game has become

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