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Old
11-02-2013, 06:18 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
That's true but that doesn't change the fact that he has a very limited skill set. The ceiling for him is not that high. Trust your eyes, not your heart.
Trusting my heart has never let me down! Except with Carle and Coburn.

Hmm.

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11-02-2013, 08:14 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Can we all stop and remember that he's still on the very early side of his development?
He's in his sixth year in the NHL, yeah sure he can improve, but how high is his ceiling?

Probably could have gotten a player of his caliber (or better maybe) in free agency, or a trade not including JvR.

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11-02-2013, 08:42 PM
  #78
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You guys are all nuts. Luke has played as well as any of the d-men, it's just they have all not played well. But the absolute worst d-man has been turnover machine Timonen

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11-02-2013, 09:59 PM
  #79
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He was a stud for us last year especially in April, and now he's behind Hall Gill. I have no idea what changed so much in six months.

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11-02-2013, 10:43 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
He was a stud for us last year especially in April, and now he's behind Hall Gill. I have no idea what changed so much in six months.
Maybe Berube closed his eyes, pointed at the roster, and landed on Luke for whipping boy duties?

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11-02-2013, 11:12 PM
  #81
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11-02-2013, 11:40 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by gto64dr View Post
You guys are all nuts. Luke has played as well as any of the d-men, it's just they have all not played well. But the absolute worst d-man has been turnover machine Timonen
100% on board with this. He is their biggest problem, night in night out.

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11-02-2013, 11:47 PM
  #83
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Schenn was great last year, but clearly he came into camp totally out of skating shape and it's not that he's been bad this year he just needs to get back into how he played last year. Hopefully this scratch is a wake-up call, but this is definitely the same Luke Schenn that Toronto dealt with for years. He must have confidence issues or something, much like the majority of the Flyers at this point. I'd probably try to shop Schenn although in no way are you getting a player of JVR's caliber, so it's probably best to avoid further embarrassment and just try to turn him around. Or rebuild the defense and try to acquire some smart, simple, quick players.

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11-03-2013, 12:52 AM
  #84
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Keep Schenn as his value is low anyway. Get a REAL #1 and stick Schenn with him. That will get the best out of Schenn.

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11-03-2013, 06:39 AM
  #85
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Why hasn't he played a single game with Timmonen this eason, they looked quite good together last year complementing each others play.

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11-03-2013, 06:47 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Fragmuffin View Post
Why hasn't he played a single game with Timmonen this eason, they looked quite good together last year complementing each others play.
Because Timonen was supposed to be the babysitter for Coburn and Gustafsson out there. The whole thing back fired and Timonen looked brutal out there as well.

Btw I don't think Schenn has been that bad at all.
I think last nights decision was more pro Hall Gill than against Luke Schenn. Can have only so many defensive stay-at-home type of defensemen on the ice. Grossmann is the most solid of the pack by a margin. Berube wanted to add Gill because of his Veteran leadship and that sealed the deal.


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11-03-2013, 10:33 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Why wouldn't I be biased? I watched my favorite team invest their first rebuild pick on a dud who can't play the modern game, who wasn't the "generational shut down" defenseman McGuire creamed his pants about, a guy our fanbase had to downgrade in expectation from whispers of Scott Stevens to Shea Weber to Adam Foote, to just a guy who could go a game or two without brutal miscues and giveaways. I spent five years pulling out my hair watching him play, he's probably my most disliked ex-Leafs ever.
So you are blaming him because he was drafted high and then overhyped by Pierre? I still think he can be a poor man's Rob Blake in this league, and he's only 23, which is young for shutdown d-men standards. You seem to try and say that all hope is lost for him, when that is clearly not true. He was rushed to the NHL and lost his mobility when he put on too much weight. Not to mention playing the majority of the games in your career in a run and gun system (Wilson and Lavi) can be a death sentence when trying to develop your shutdown game.

I still think that Schenn will be a solid 3/4 in this league as a poor man's Rob Blake.

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11-03-2013, 11:35 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
So you are blaming him because he was drafted high and then overhyped by Pierre? I still think he can be a poor man's Rob Blake in this league, and he's only 23, which is young for shutdown d-men standards. You seem to try and say that all hope is lost for him, when that is clearly not true. He was rushed to the NHL and lost his mobility when he put on too much weight. Not to mention playing the majority of the games in your career in a run and gun system (Wilson and Lavi) can be a death sentence when trying to develop your shutdown game.

I still think that Schenn will be a solid 3/4 in this league as a poor man's Rob Blake.
I think people forget really quickly he's young as hell and was rushed into the league. Chara was pretty brutal when he started out, and he's turned out just fine. Dmen in his mold can take a really long time to develop.

I don't expect Schenn to be as good as Chara, but the point here is he's shown flashes in Toronto and Philly of being a very good dman. It's still early to throw him under the bus, then order the bus driver to back over him again.

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11-03-2013, 11:47 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I think people forget really quickly he's young as hell and was rushed into the league. Chara was pretty brutal when he started out, and he's turned out just fine. Dmen in his mold can take a really long time to develop.

I don't expect Schenn to be as good as Chara, but the point here is he's shown flashes in Toronto and Philly of being a very good dman. It's still early to throw him under the bus, then order the bus driver to back over him again.
Yeh, 3 years out of 5 aged 18-22 he was a 22 minute, 25 point shut down D man. (so a 3-4) 2 years he was a 17 minute 15-20 point D man with average D. (so a 5-6)

He has already proven for more than half of his young career he can do himself justice in an important role.

If he finds consistency with age there are not that many players who can do that role as effectively. Not saying that role will make a team successful on its own, but that kind of player is a big part on successful team defences.

People need to stop getting on his back for nor being a #1... everyone knew he was not going to be that when they traded for him.

Tbh there are less than 10 #1's in the NHL really, and maybe another 10 guys who give off the pretence of a number 1 at times with average defence but ~40 points every other year.

Weber, Suter, Chara, Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Subban, Karlsson, Pietrangelo and OEL are the only guys in my mind who even have a claim they are a true #1 d man.

Heck, Coburn, Kimmo and Streit are all arguably in the top 60 d men in the NHL averaged over the last 3 years!

There are not that many good d men to go around in this league.


Last edited by Appleyard: 11-03-2013 at 11:53 AM.
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Old
11-03-2013, 11:58 AM
  #90
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Luke has been pretty damn good, far from the worst. He can't continue to be a healthy scratch, it just makes no sense. He needs to be playing, Gill on the other hand does not.

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11-03-2013, 12:10 PM
  #91
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Luke has been pretty damn good, far from the worst. He can't continue to be a healthy scratch, it just makes no sense. He needs to be playing, Gill on the other hand does not.
He NEEDS to be playing. He's a top 4 D-Man on the team, there is NO doubt about that.

However, I will argue that his so called "ceiling" is pretty overhyped.

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11-03-2013, 12:10 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Luke has been pretty damn good, far from the worst. He can't continue to be a healthy scratch, it just makes no sense. He needs to be playing, Gill on the other hand does not.
Really liked Gill last night though. No way he's a better puck handler than Schenn, but he seemed more composed. Just like Luke needs to be a bit more. The solution? I dunno, extra coaching? Maybe?

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11-03-2013, 01:00 PM
  #93
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Because Timonen was supposed to be the babysitter for Coburn and Gustafsson out there. The whole thing back fired and Timonen looked brutal out there as well.

Btw I don't think Schenn has been that bad at all.
I think last nights decision was more pro Hall Gill than against Luke Schenn. Can have only so many defensive stay-at-home type of defensemen on the ice. Grossmann is the most solid of the pack by a margin. Berube wanted to add Gill because of his Veteran leadship and that sealed the deal.
I think they wanted to see if Gill can really play in a game, because one of Meszaros or Grossmann is going in trade.

Luke will be fine. He worked out with Weber again in the summer, but clearly he didn't come into camp in great skating shape. Too many weights again?

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11-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #94
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I want Luke to be good so badly.

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11-03-2013, 01:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
He NEEDS to be playing. He's a top 4 D-Man on the team, there is NO doubt about that.

However, I will argue that his so called "ceiling" is pretty overhyped.
I agree. I see him as a top 4 now with the potential to be more with the right partner. In other words he's a good complimentary d-man, maybe with one of Hagg, Ghost or Gus within the next few yrs. In fact he and Kimmo were great together last year and even when they were broken up and he was paired with Gus he still looked great.

No way he can go from being 22 minute d-man facing quality competition and excelling to being a healthy scratch for Mez and Gill.

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11-03-2013, 06:07 PM
  #96
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He's a bust of epic proportions. Yep, I said it and have no issues doing so. His hockey IQ is appalling, his skill set is pretty mediocre. He's a number 4 D-Man at best on a team with decent depth.

The quicker I accept the fact that we were hosed in that trade, the quicker I can move on to a vision of a rebuilt D corps that doesn't include him in the top 4.

They never will but Luke Schenn should be sent to the minors where he can first accept his limitations and then broaden his game and expand his skill set.

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11-03-2013, 08:43 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Swervin81 View Post
So you are blaming him because he was drafted high and then overhyped by Pierre? I still think he can be a poor man's Rob Blake in this league, and he's only 23, which is young for shutdown d-men standards. You seem to try and say that all hope is lost for him, when that is clearly not true. He was rushed to the NHL and lost his mobility when he put on too much weight. Not to mention playing the majority of the games in your career in a run and gun system (Wilson and Lavi) can be a death sentence when trying to develop your shutdown game.

I still think that Schenn will be a solid 3/4 in this league as a poor man's Rob Blake.
If you think Luke Schenn can be Rob Blake, you don't know much about Rob Blake or Luke Schenn. Saying Luke Schenn can be a Rob Blake is like saying he may yet develop into a Norris winning Shea Weber with more offense.

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11-03-2013, 08:46 PM
  #98
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If you think Luke Schenn can be Rob Blake, you don't know much about Rob Blake or Luke Schenn. Saying Luke Schenn can be a Rob Blake is like saying he may yet develop into a Norris winning Shea Weber with more offense.
Well he did say poor man's... lol he never specified HOW poor.

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11-03-2013, 08:49 PM
  #99
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I think people forget really quickly he's young as hell and was rushed into the league. Chara was pretty brutal when he started out, and he's turned out just fine. Dmen in his mold can take a really long time to develop.

I don't expect Schenn to be as good as Chara, but the point here is he's shown flashes in Toronto and Philly of being a very good dman. It's still early to throw him under the bus, then order the bus driver to back over him again.
Schenn has close to 400 games in the NHL, and while he's young based on his birth certificate, he's basically an NHL veteran by the amount of work experience he has accrued and has had an NHL ready body since draft day. He seems to yo yo between being a steady NHL contributor and a guy who reverts to his sophomore rock bottom game.

I think he has below average skillset and he's not particularly smart. His dominant play in juniors probably can be attributed to his physical maturity, but in the pros he has no such edge and has too many exploitable weaknesses.

I think he can be a useful NHLer like a Mark Fraser, but he has to be really sheltered and used specifically, and you may not see his game stabilize until he's just a grizzled veteran who is coached to keep his game ultra simple and a supporting cast to clean up over his brainfarts.

He was extremely frustrating to have in Toronto, and I sympathize with Philly fans who have to watch him.

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11-03-2013, 08:59 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
He's in his sixth year in the NHL, yeah sure he can improve, but how high is his ceiling?

Probably could have gotten a player of his caliber (or better maybe) in free agency, or a trade not including JvR.
Not at the time. I still think he can develop into a top shut down dman (hell, he was arguably our best last season). But you don't get young defenseman with high potential in free agency or by trading peanuts unless you get really lucky. The Flyers needed a high ceiling young defender and that's what they got. Whether he reaches that high ceiling is yet to be seen, but I'm certainly not throwing in the towel on a 24 year old kid, who hasn't played nearly as bad as HFBoards wants you to think.

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