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Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part II (Mod warning post #861)

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:10 AM
  #126
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I would like to spend less in assets at the deadline and look for the good buys. I'd be more interested in the shape Jagr is in at the deadline than dealing off Del Zotto + prospect/picks for a young player who may or may not reach their potential. Because Del Zotto still has the offensive ability and has looked a lot better the last couple of games. Buy low. Jagr will cost a draft pick. The Devils need to rebuild. Again it is all dependent on how Jagr's health is at the deadline. I'd look at Jagr and Steve Ott.

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11-04-2013, 09:13 AM
  #127
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The Rangers need to wait before they start making moves.

More than anything, the team (regardless of who they've played) has started to gel even without callahan and Nash. They are scoring more, giving up less, and have won 4 out of their last 5. Now we want to start changing the roster....AGAIN? Its stupid. Let them play. And especially let them play because if they can keep winning and get to a level of consistency, they will have more leverage if and when they do decide to make a trade. We have extra pieces that we maybe could deal if we need a certain player(s). Zucc, Boyle, Pouliot, Pyatt, Miller, Kristo, Del Zotto; depending on who you want to keep out of them, you could possibly choose a combination of that group to make a trade. But Nash and Callahan need to come back and show they are healthy before you make a deal.
Yeah, I agree with you. I really don't want to mess with the balance of our forwards at all right now. Let them continue to gel.

The only move I would really be interested in making is a MDZ for a RHD type of move, for a few reasons. 1. We need more righty shots. 2. MDZ is the odd-man out, playing out of position in a spot I have doubts he'll ever adjust to. 3. It would allow us to not make a desperation decision regarding Girardi come the deadline or the off-season.

Unless someone is willing to offer us a Downie for Talbot type of deal, that's all I'd be interested in.

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11-04-2013, 09:15 AM
  #128
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Buff leads all D in shots on goal. Zero goals. Look at that contract. The Rangers would better off giving Girardi that money than acquiring the guy in Winnipeg. The Rangers shouldn't give Girardi $5M. Buff. $5.2M cap. Salaries of $5.75M this and next and $6M in 15-16. That guy stinks. People always ignore the cap and the Rangers don't have much space to add significant dollars. Shedding the expensive bottom six guys still need to be replaced on the roster.

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11-04-2013, 09:17 AM
  #129
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I'd rather have Bogosian out of Winnipeg anyway.

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11-04-2013, 09:21 AM
  #130
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He's redundant on this roster.

And I don't see 60 points out of this guy. That would put him on par with Stepan and ahead of Callahan and I'm not seeing that level of talent from him.
His physical presence ALONE makes him a unique piece on this roster. For all the pissing and moaning I see about this team not being tough enough, he would be a remedy to that problem.

Nobody saw that talent out of Callahan at 22 either. He's a developing player that would be able to develop on a team that clearly isn't ready to win it all.

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the reason the top line talent buzz phrase is nauseating is because we don't have it outside of Nash and MAYBE Stepan.

It's something that, until this team can get, will continue to be it's achellies heel.
It's actually just a side effect of the NY sports mentality. Talent above all else. We had two 40 goal scorers, a Conn Smythe winning #2C, and blossoming #1C on the team last season and still couldn't score. Why? By your own logic, we should have been "fixed" last year.

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Wanna know what makes me ill? The phrase of "solid two way player" like that makes it ok for being offensively challenged. We have a team FULL of solid two way players and we have done NOTHING of note with those players. What we need is LEGIT talent and if that means taking a player that is deficient on Defence or in "charachter" so be it. Those guys tend to be the more dangerous players offensively.
We made within two games of the SCF with a group of solid two-way forwards. "Solid two way player" isn't synonymous with "defensive minded forward". Two-way forwards can score and play defense. Callahan is a two way forward. Stepan is a two way forward. Hagelin is a two way forward. Boyle and Moore aren't two way forwards. The rest couldn't even be considered "defensive" minded forwards.

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With the team we have, I would take Yakupov over Schenn 11 out of 10 times.

We have a solid team. We have depth on D to make a trade for a younger guy that can grow with the team.

I would prefer to give up the extra asset(s) it would take to get a Yakupov than Schenn. Because with all of his warts, he can be a player that can be a danger to score every game where as I don't believe Schenn to be on that same level.

And finally, it has nothing to do with the "big name".

It has everything to do with assessing what this team is lacking and addressing that defecient part of the team.

A young talented sniper that is a danger to score 40+ every year.

We have cake, we have no icing.
I look at this team when healthy, and the one 'need' that doesn't leap out to me is "another RW who can't play the left side." Right now, Yakupov is as much of a liability to be scored on as he is a threat to score. He's also said he doesn't really have much interest in changing that.

Again, I'm less interested in a single player that is just a threat to score than I am a player who is a threat to do more than just score every time he steps on the ice. Schenn can be the player that changes the game with a hit, great defensive play, or skilled move on offense. Yakupov will make more highlights, but Schenn does more things right.

In a vacuum, I probably take Yakupov. If I'm starting a team from scratch, I probably take Yakupov. But for this team? I don't think he's a fit and I think people are far too enamored with the highlight reel and star power than they ought to be. It's that exact mentality that's kept us from being anything but a bubble team for the last 20 years.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:23 AM
  #131
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Winnipeg awarded so many players to new long-term contracts in the summer. Look at those contracts. The team isn't much better and now they're stuck with those players. The other teams don't want your bad contracts. The Rangers have the 2nd fewest dollars committed for next season. That's a positive. They aren't tied to many players. They have the money to retain any player they want. Amnesty Richards. Cap recapture. The cap goes up to $67M-$68M. No stupid free agents.

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11-04-2013, 09:24 AM
  #132
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I'd rather have Bogosian out of Winnipeg anyway.
First year of a 7 year contract.

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11-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
First year of a 7 year contract.
That'd be the only prohibitive thing, but it isn't like his $ number is outlandish. A little over $5m per is something the Rangers could afford, especially since we'd be talking about moving DZ, who will probably get in the neighborhood of $4m on his next deal. The 7-year deal takes him to 30 years old, too, which means we shouldn't see a decline in his play over the life of the deal.

On your other point, it's true on the roster flexibility going into the off-season. That could be both a positive and a negative though. Hopefully we aren't going to see some stupid amount of roster turnover.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:45 AM
  #134
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Is the Schenn and Buff talk speculation or a rumor?

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11-04-2013, 09:48 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That'd be the only prohibitive thing, but it isn't like his $ number is outlandish. A little over $5m per is something the Rangers could afford, especially since we'd be talking about moving DZ, who will probably get in the neighborhood of $4m on his next deal. The 7-year deal takes him to 30 years old, too, which means we shouldn't see a decline in his play over the life of the deal.

On your other point, it's true on the roster flexibility going into the off-season. That could be both a positive and a negative though. Hopefully we aren't going to see some stupid amount of roster turnover.
Its a 7 year contract. Its a lot of term for a player you don't know.

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11-04-2013, 09:54 AM
  #136
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Is the Schenn and Buff talk speculation or a rumor?
Schenn is speculative. I assume the Buff talk is based off of what Bob mentioned a few days back.

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11-04-2013, 09:56 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That'd be the only prohibitive thing, but it isn't like his $ number is outlandish. A little over $5m per is something the Rangers could afford, especially since we'd be talking about moving DZ, who will probably get in the neighborhood of $4m on his next deal. The 7-year deal takes him to 30 years old, too, which means we shouldn't see a decline in his play over the life of the deal.

On your other point, it's true on the roster flexibility going into the off-season. That could be both a positive and a negative though. Hopefully we aren't going to see some stupid amount of roster turnover.
They can afford it, but Bogosian isn't a $5.1M per year player right now. You're risking a lot on a player who hasn't justified his contract yet. Could he finally find the level of play people think he has within him? Sure, but that's a big commitment to make for a question mark.

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11-04-2013, 10:03 AM
  #138
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Aaron Johnson is playing lights-out in the AHL right now. I'm a big advocate of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Would be prudent to give AJ a look in the NHL though.

Send down Miller (with Cally back healthy). Call up AJ. Scratch DZ, and play AJ. If AJ can hold his own, let's deal DZ.

12 gp, 3g, 11a, 14 points +3

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Old
11-04-2013, 10:06 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
They can afford it, but Bogosian isn't a $5.1M per year player right now. You're risking a lot on a player who hasn't justified his contract yet. Could he finally find the level of play people think he has within him? Sure, but that's a big commitment to make for a question mark.
As far as I'm concerned, he's overpaid by a million, at most right now, in open market terms. He's already a top-4 caliber defenseman in this league. By the time his deal runs out, even if he's plateau'd as a player, given cap inflation, he'll actually be almost exactly correct or even slightly underpaid.

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Old
11-04-2013, 10:07 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Aaron Johnson is playing lights-out in the AHL right now. I'm a big advocate of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Would be prudent to give AJ a look in the NHL though.

Send down Miller (with Cally back healthy). Call up AJ. Scratch DZ, and play AJ. If AJ can hold his own, let's deal DZ.

12 gp, 3g, 11a, 14 points +3
Johnson is a nearly prototypical tweener. He's great at the AHL level, below mediocre at the NHL level. Sorta like the Brad Smyth of defensemen.

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11-04-2013, 10:10 AM
  #141
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Evander Kane and Brayden Schenn. Getting those two players would do wonders for this team in terms of talent and being harder to play against.

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11-04-2013, 10:19 AM
  #142
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You're not getting Kane without giving up something that you may not want to give. And the main piece is not going to be Del Zotto.

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11-04-2013, 10:25 AM
  #143
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Unfortunately yes SBOB it'll take a lot to pry him from Winnipeg. Would Staal be good enough?

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11-04-2013, 10:34 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Aaron Johnson is playing lights-out in the AHL right now. I'm a big advocate of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Would be prudent to give AJ a look in the NHL though.

Send down Miller (with Cally back healthy). Call up AJ. Scratch DZ, and play AJ. If AJ can hold his own, let's deal DZ.

12 gp, 3g, 11a, 14 points +3
Not exactly the best way to retain value of an asset.

"Hey anyone interested in a "PMD" with 4+ years of NHL experience who just lost their roster spot to an AHL call-up?"

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11-04-2013, 10:50 AM
  #145
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His physical presence ALONE makes him a unique piece on this roster. For all the pissing and moaning I see about this team not being tough enough, he would be a remedy to that problem.

Fair point. He would add an element of physicality at the top 6 that the team currently lacks. Point conceded

Nobody saw that talent out of Callahan at 22 either. He's a developing player that would be able to develop on a team that clearly isn't ready to win it all.

Respectfully disagree here. If people weren't paying attention to what Callahan was doing starting with the season of his draft year (03-04) then they have only themselves to blame. He averaged 38 goals a year from 03-04 to 06-07 including a 35 goal campaign in in 60 AHL games. The writing was on the wall. His "knock" was his size. That's it.

It's actually just a side effect of the NY sports mentality. Talent above all else. We had two 40 goal scorers, a Conn Smythe winning #2C, and blossoming #1C on the team last season and still couldn't score. Why? By your own logic, we should have been "fixed" last year.

A fading #2 center that has had 3 straight seasons of declining production prior to last year? And yes, we should have been "fixed" last season. Had that #2 center played LIKE a #2 center, maybe, just maybe we don't look to move the 40 goal guy. However, when you take that 40 goal guy and move him to a position he had never played before, the odds are not great that you are going to get what you want out of that move.

We made within two games of the SCF with a group of solid two-way forwards. "Solid two way player" isn't synonymous with "defensive minded forward". Two-way forwards can score and play defense. Callahan is a two way forward. Stepan is a two way forward. Hagelin is a two way forward. Boyle and Moore aren't two way forwards. The rest couldn't even be considered "defensive" minded forwards.

We failed at winning those two games because we couldn't score goals. We exerted way to much energy squeeking past both Washington and Ottawa and were done as a team against the Devils. Having another sniper that could have off-set the fact that Gaborik was playing with one arm could have and probably would have been the difference in that series. As it was, our two way guys got us as far as they could. Beyond that, they were done.

I look at this team when healthy, and the one 'need' that doesn't leap out to me is "another RW who can't play the left side." Right now, Yakupov is as much of a liability to be scored on as he is a threat to score. He's also said he doesn't really have much interest in changing that.

Well, we have a RW that HAS and CAN play the LW and that's Nash. I know that Nash has stated that he's more comfortable playing the RW. But that he would have no problems playing the left side. He's played there for Columbus in the past and has done well doing it. I looked at his 21 goals last season and 9 of them came from him coming in off the goalies right side. I would prefer to get a legit LW, I believe that Yakupov is more available than Kane both of whom I much prefer to Schenn who I believe is more of a passer than a shooter which lends itself to being a better center than winger.

As for Yak being a bit of a liability to be scored on? I'm 100% OK with that. Yakupov is an offensive talent that is confident taking risks. I'm OK with those types of players when you surround them with players that understand that and have the speed and awareness to compensate for it. Playing Yakupov with Hagelin and Stepan would be something to consider. Both of his linemates are good enough defensively to cover up for some of the mistakes that Yak will make and as he gets older, he will get better defensively.

Again, I'm less interested in a single player that is just a threat to score than I am a player who is a threat to do more than just score every time he steps on the ice. Schenn can be the player that changes the game with a hit, great defensive play, or skilled move on offense. Yakupov will make more highlights, but Schenn does more things right.

Again, I will concede that Schenn is a more responsible player. I believe we have enough responsible players. I believe the team needs talented risk takers. Schenn hasn't made much of a difference for the Flyers, last year or this year.

In a vacuum, I probably take Yakupov. If I'm starting a team from scratch, I probably take Yakupov. But for this team? I don't think he's a fit and I think people are far too enamored with the highlight reel and star power than they ought to be. It's that exact mentality that's kept us from being anything but a bubble team for the last 20 years.
For me it's not about highlight reel. For me it's looking at what has plagued this team for a few years and not seeing it addressed (I will concede that they tried). The Rangers inability to score on a regular basis has been a problem for this team over the last 4+ years. I do not believe that Schenn makes the team better in that regards. The flip side is that we have been a solid defensive team over that sime time frame and while Schenn would make us better in that regards, not being able to score regularly will still be this teams undong.

For what the Rangers lack and need, Yakupov is a much better fit and highlight reel goals have nothing to do with it.

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11-04-2013, 10:59 AM
  #146
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Schenn is speculative. I assume the Buff talk is based off of what Bob mentioned a few days back.
Sorry, but what did he mention?

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11-04-2013, 11:09 AM
  #147
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Buff leads all D in shots on goal. Zero goals. Look at that contract. The Rangers would better off giving Girardi that money than acquiring the guy in Winnipeg. The Rangers shouldn't give Girardi $5M. Buff. $5.2M cap. Salaries of $5.75M this and next and $6M in 15-16. That guy stinks. People always ignore the cap and the Rangers don't have much space to add significant dollars. Shedding the expensive bottom six guys still need to be replaced on the roster.
Is that supposed to be an indictment? It's great that he's producing so many shots as a defenseman. That shooting percentage is obviously unsustainably low.

He's put up a 50 point pace for three straight seasons as a d-man. The Rangers haven't had a defenseman score 50 points in 12 years.

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11-04-2013, 11:11 AM
  #148
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For me it's not about highlight reel. For me it's looking at what has plagued this team for a few years and not seeing it addressed (I will concede that they tried). The Rangers inability to score on a regular basis has been a problem for this team over the last 4+ years. I do not believe that Schenn makes the team better in that regards. The flip side is that we have been a solid defensive team over that sime time frame and while Schenn would make us better in that regards, not being able to score regularly will still be this teams undong.

For what the Rangers lack and need, Yakupov is a much better fit and highlight reel goals have nothing to do with it.
The scoring by committee approach works for boston. It took the Rangers a bit to get on track defensively. I don't think we have really seen yet what this team is capable of offensively. We'll have a better idea of what we need once Cally and Nash get going again. No matter how good a player is, or how good a line is, they can be shut down in the playoffs. We've seen it happen many times. That's when we need goals from our bottom 6 and our defense.

How many goals did the devils' 4th line score against us 2 years ago? How many did boston's 4th line score against us last year? Look at what boston did to pittsburgh last year. Yeah, chicago won it all and they have some very high end players, but they also have a lot of depth. They don't win the cup last year without guys like Bickell, Frolik and Shaw.

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11-04-2013, 11:17 AM
  #149
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Is that supposed to be an indictment? It's great that he's producing so many shots as a defenseman. That shooting percentage is obviously unsustainably low.

He's put up a 50 point pace for three straight seasons as a d-man. The Rangers haven't had a defenseman score 50 points in 12 years.
Yeah but, zero goals.

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11-04-2013, 11:23 AM
  #150
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Would anyone be interested in Brian Campbell if this team was making a playoff push? Assuming Florida eats some salary. I'd love him, one of the most underrated d-men in the league.

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