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Old
11-03-2013, 09:46 PM
  #51
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Not sure how Philly fans are upset with this...
Mason has played very well and is still super young. Seems to be on his way to regaining form. I'm not willing to quit on him yet.

And most importantly: I'm damn sure not ready to trade Sean Couturier.

That's why I'm not happy with the deal. The return doesn't give me enough to give up on 2 super young players that show a ton of promise.

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Old
11-03-2013, 09:47 PM
  #52
bleedblue1223
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For what he's produced the last few years, it's been amazing.
It doesn't mean his play has been amazing, it just means he sucked horribly in the past. Maybe he just needed a change in scenery, but it also could mean he could revert back to what he used to be.

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Old
11-03-2013, 09:50 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jeffro View Post
Let's go crazy. Let's get nuts.

To St. Louis:
Ryan Miller
Sean Couturier

To Philadelphia:
Jaroslav Halak
Maxim Lapierre
Chris Stewart
STL 2014 Second Round Pick

To Buffalo:
Steve Mason
STL 2014 First Round Pick
PHI 2014 Third Round Pick
Send Stewart to Sabres instead of Mason and I won't complain.

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Old
11-03-2013, 09:56 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Brutal deal aside. I do not see the reason St. Louis goes after Miller. Even if they have concerns regarding Halak. Elliot and Allen have proven they can shoulder a load for a given stretch. Unless Buffalo is gifting Miller away. It makes no sense.
What about Elliot's last two playoff series make you comfortable with him starting a third?

They go after Miller because he's an upgrade on what they have at the position.

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11-03-2013, 10:07 PM
  #55
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
What about Elliot's last two playoff series make you comfortable with him starting a third?

They go after Miller because he's an upgrade on what they have at the position.
The fact that he was not the reason why we got eliminated. The goalies aren't responsible for scoring.

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Old
11-03-2013, 10:17 PM
  #56
Vladys Gumption
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
What about Elliot's last two playoff series make you comfortable with him starting a third?

They go after Miller because he's an upgrade on what they have at the position.
Those of us that actually watched last years series actually know why we lost, and it wasn't goaltending. Lack of scoring is the sole reason we lost. Elliott was not the problem at all.

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Old
11-03-2013, 10:36 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
What about Elliot's last two playoff series make you comfortable with him starting a third?

They go after Miller because he's an upgrade on what they have at the position.
Elliott had a 1.90 gaa last playoffs the blues scored less then 2 goals a game. The Blues scored less goals then the goalie with the best gaa. No matter who your starter is if you score less the 2 goals a game you'll lose.

If your team is not scoring enough and your goalie has a 1.90 gaa last playoffs you don't trade for a goalie....goaltending and defense are not a need. An elite goal scorer is.


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Old
11-04-2013, 01:21 AM
  #58
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As a big fan of Enroth I say no to another goalie coming to buffalo. Rather see what he can do here before bringing someone in.

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Old
11-04-2013, 02:03 AM
  #59
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As a big fan of Enroth I say no to another goalie coming to buffalo. Rather see what he can do here before bringing someone in.
Then you must have missed the Ducks game. I think having a serious competitor for next top goalie might force Enroth to up his game a little bit. We can always trade either of them at the deadline.

When Miller is traded, his new team will (probably) need to give some cap back to Buffalo - easiest place for them to do that will be in goal.

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11-04-2013, 04:00 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
Those of us that actually watched last years series actually know why we lost, and it wasn't goaltending. Lack of scoring is the sole reason we lost. Elliott was not the problem at all.
Some of us that watched us noticed that the reason the Blues lost was goaltending.

Quick outplayed Elliot and the Blues were eliminated from the playoffs. "Getting by" is just good enough until you stop getting by and that apparently happens in the 1st or 2nd round(whichever round they go head to head with Quick).

IMO the Blues outplayed the Kings everywhere except the goaltender position and they got sent home packing because of it. Elliot is fine as a backup plan but certainly isn't ideal. Miller would immediately become the Blues #1 goaltender and give them a better chance to win the Cup. Whether or not the price to get him is too high is one thing but when I see fans claiming that an upgrade in goal isn't important or not needed when most playoff series/games can come down to one single goal it bugs me. Making yourself a bit better for a playoff run can be the difference between winning a Cup and not winning a Cup.

One team wins the Cup each year and no one knows how many chances you'll get to win that Cup. Relying on next year to win it and it is no big deal to not win it seems silly. If just making it to the 1st/2nd round is good enough for Blues then fine. Otherwise, it always makes sense to consider possible upgrades that could help you better your chance to win it. Just my opinion about it. I disagree that Elliot is "fine" as your starter in the playoffs because Halak is a better goaltender, just as he was last year. Whether or not Halak could've hung with Quick and the Blues move on to the next round we'll never know but we do know that Elliot wasn't the answer.

Although I notice some that flamed me for saying Halak would give them a better chance to win in the playoffs than Elliot last year are now saying Halak is the greatest of all time and the perfect goalie for St Louis to help them win the Cup.

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Old
11-04-2013, 05:26 AM
  #61
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If you can't score more than 2 goals per game in the playoffs, it doesn't matter who you have in goal, you are going to lose.

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11-04-2013, 05:32 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Some of us that watched us noticed that the reason the Blues lost was goaltending.

Quick outplayed Elliot and the Blues were eliminated from the playoffs. "Getting by" is just good enough until you stop getting by and that apparently happens in the 1st or 2nd round(whichever round they go head to head with Quick).

IMO the Blues outplayed the Kings everywhere except the goaltender position and they got sent home packing because of it. Elliot is fine as a backup plan but certainly isn't ideal. Miller would immediately become the Blues #1 goaltender and give them a better chance to win the Cup. Whether or not the price to get him is too high is one thing but when I see fans claiming that an upgrade in goal isn't important or not needed when most playoff series/games can come down to one single goal it bugs me. Making yourself a bit better for a playoff run can be the difference between winning a Cup and not winning a Cup.

One team wins the Cup each year and no one knows how many chances you'll get to win that Cup. Relying on next year to win it and it is no big deal to not win it seems silly. If just making it to the 1st/2nd round is good enough for Blues then fine. Otherwise, it always makes sense to consider possible upgrades that could help you better your chance to win it. Just my opinion about it. I disagree that Elliot is "fine" as your starter in the playoffs because Halak is a better goaltender, just as he was last year. Whether or not Halak could've hung with Quick and the Blues move on to the next round we'll never know but we do know that Elliot wasn't the answer.

Although I notice some that flamed me for saying Halak would give them a better chance to win in the playoffs than Elliot last year are now saying Halak is the greatest of all time and the perfect goalie for St Louis to help them win the Cup.
If the Blues had scored on the powerplay at all in those series Quick wouldn't have "been the better goalie" would he. Holy **** you have the laziest logic ever. Blues didn't score - Quick did it! Kings scored barely 1 more goal per game in some of their wins - Elliott's fault every time! Quick even had some of the softest goals of the entire playoffs WHEN THEY WON IN 17 GAMES! No it wasn't goaltending, that's like saying Crawford is some how better than Niemi because he's won more recently on the exact same team as Niemi. Maybe just maybe, the goalies are more interchangeable than the top end talent who have scored all of your key game winning goals, closed out series single-handedly, and shut down some of the best forwards in the league.

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Old
11-04-2013, 07:00 AM
  #63
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Lapierre would be a great fit for the Flyers.

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Old
11-04-2013, 07:35 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomersWorld View Post
Some of us that watched us noticed that the reason the Blues lost was goaltending.

Quick outplayed Elliot and the Blues were eliminated from the playoffs. "Getting by" is just good enough until you stop getting by and that apparently happens in the 1st or 2nd round(whichever round they go head to head with Quick).

IMO the Blues outplayed the Kings everywhere except the goaltender position and they got sent home packing because of it. Elliot is fine as a backup plan but certainly isn't ideal. Miller would immediately become the Blues #1 goaltender and give them a better chance to win the Cup. Whether or not the price to get him is too high is one thing but when I see fans claiming that an upgrade in goal isn't important or not needed when most playoff series/games can come down to one single goal it bugs me. Making yourself a bit better for a playoff run can be the difference between winning a Cup and not winning a Cup.

One team wins the Cup each year and no one knows how many chances you'll get to win that Cup. Relying on next year to win it and it is no big deal to not win it seems silly. If just making it to the 1st/2nd round is good enough for Blues then fine. Otherwise, it always makes sense to consider possible upgrades that could help you better your chance to win it. Just my opinion about it. I disagree that Elliot is "fine" as your starter in the playoffs because Halak is a better goaltender, just as he was last year. Whether or not Halak could've hung with Quick and the Blues move on to the next round we'll never know but we do know that Elliot wasn't the answer.

Although I notice some that flamed me for saying Halak would give them a better chance to win in the playoffs than Elliot last year are now saying Halak is the greatest of all time and the perfect goalie for St Louis to help them win the Cup.
So if you're goalie gives you a 1.90 goals against average it's still his fault? What a crock. It you're team doesn't score, you aren't going to win. Period. Elliott played more than well enough to win. But apparently the fact that he was thrust into the starting role due to an injury is lost on you. We didn't plan on rolling with Elliott in the playoffs, but thanks to Halak's wonky groin, we were forced to. Elliott's teammates crapped the bed. Miller is an upgrade on Elliott and Halak. Nobody is saying he isn't. But this team is capable of winning with what we have and there's no point in giving up assets for a goalie that at this point isn't significantly better than Halak. Goaltending is important, but it's not the be all, end all of playoff hockey. The Hawks just won the cup with Corey friggin Crawford as their goalie. To win in the playoffs a team needs top tier talent to carry their offense. That was the difference in last year's playoff. Not Brian Elliott.

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Old
11-04-2013, 08:47 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by BleedBlue247 View Post
So if you're goalie gives you a 1.90 goals against average it's still his fault? What a crock. It you're team doesn't score, you aren't going to win. Period. Elliott played more than well enough to win. But apparently the fact that he was thrust into the starting role due to an injury is lost on you. We didn't plan on rolling with Elliott in the playoffs, but thanks to Halak's wonky groin, we were forced to. Elliott's teammates crapped the bed. Miller is an upgrade on Elliott and Halak. Nobody is saying he isn't. But this team is capable of winning with what we have and there's no point in giving up assets for a goalie that at this point isn't significantly better than Halak. Goaltending is important, but it's not the be all, end all of playoff hockey. The Hawks just won the cup with Corey friggin Crawford as their goalie. To win in the playoffs a team needs top tier talent to carry their offense. That was the difference in last year's playoff. Not Brian Elliott.
Here here!

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:01 AM
  #66
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Ouch the Blues get murdered in this. The pieces the Blues get back in this deal are nice, but the price is way too high.

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11-04-2013, 09:11 AM
  #67
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[QUOTE=bleedblue1223;73795813]The fact that he was not the reason why we got eliminated. The goalies aren't responsible for scoring.[/QUOTE]

And now you see what the Flyers think Mason has been good. The issue have been with scoring goals. When you have 1 game in a season where you score more than 2 goals, the team will rack up the losses.

Philly's ONLY trade should be for a PMD or a scoring winger with speed. All assets should be kept unless it fills one of those spots.

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11-04-2013, 09:20 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If you can't score more than 2 goals per game in the playoffs, it doesn't matter who you have in goal, you are going to lose.
Unless you're coached by Ken Hitchcock and have an actual goaltender. St. Louis is halfway there.

Miller also allows the Blues to deviate from their defensive system more effectively when they need goals, and has a much lower possibility of just ******** the bed for a series, especially in the context of St. Louis' defensive schemes.

The Blues don't have to get Miller to compete, but they probably won't have an opportunity to get the quality of forward they need due to scarcity, and Miller represents one of the most significant upgrades in talent available at the deadline.

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11-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Unless you're coached by Ken Hitchcock and have an actual goaltender. St. Louis is halfway there.

Miller also allows the Blues to deviate from their defensive system more effectively when they need goals, and has a much lower possibility of just ******** the bed for a series, especially in the context of St. Louis' defensive schemes.

The Blues don't have to get Miller to compete, but they probably won't have an opportunity to get the quality of forward they need due to scarcity, and Miller represents one of the most significant upgrades in talent available at the deadline.
Except that's not true. This team is built on its continuity and it's overall team game. When we play more offensive we play like crap. And Miller is not a significant enough upgrade on Halak to justify giving up the huge price that Buffalo will want/

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11-04-2013, 09:29 AM
  #70
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Unless you're coached by Ken Hitchcock and have an actual goaltender. St. Louis is halfway there.

Miller also allows the Blues to deviate from their defensive system more effectively when they need goals, and has a much lower possibility of just ******** the bed for a series, especially in the context of St. Louis' defensive schemes.

The Blues don't have to get Miller to compete, but they probably won't have an opportunity to get the quality of forward they need due to scarcity, and Miller represents one of the most significant upgrades in talent available at the deadline.
So Miller is going to get a shutout or give up 1 goal in most playoff games? He's a very good goalie, but he isn't going to magically turn into Hasek with us.

Getting Miller will likely be exactly what Bouwmeester did. His play will be elevated and he will look at lot better, the difference is Miller will be a very marginal upgrade over Halak, where as Bouwmeester was a massive upgrade.

Scoring is our bigger problem, so Buffalo fans, send us Moulson proposals instead of the Miller ones. The only rumors that has us interested in Miller was over the summer before Halak proved he is our #1 this season.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:50 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Jeffro View Post
Let's go crazy. Let's get nuts.

To St. Louis:
Ryan Miller
Sean Couturier

To Philadelphia:
Jaroslav Halak
Maxim Lapierre
Chris Stewart
STL 2014 Second Round Pick

To Buffalo:
Steve Mason
STL 2014 First Round Pick
PHI 2014 Third Round Pick
You MUST be a Blues fan, because no way would buff or Philadelphia make this deal. St. Louis runs away laughing.

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11-04-2013, 09:54 AM
  #72
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You MUST be a Blues fan, because no way would buff or Philadelphia make this deal. St. Louis runs away laughing.
How? Buffalo is the only team that would do that, especially since Mason is so great according to Philly fans.

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11-04-2013, 09:56 AM
  #73
Vladys Gumption
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You MUST be a Blues fan, because no way would buff or Philadelphia make this deal. St. Louis runs away laughing.
No we don't. Couturier isn't an upgrade on any of our top three centers, and Miller isn't enough of an upgrade on Halak to justify giving up significant assets.

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11-04-2013, 09:56 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Unless you're coached by Ken Hitchcock and have an actual goaltender. St. Louis is halfway there.

Miller also allows the Blues to deviate from their defensive system more effectively when they need goals, and has a much lower possibility of just ******** the bed for a series, especially in the context of St. Louis' defensive schemes.

The Blues don't have to get Miller to compete, but they probably won't have an opportunity to get the quality of forward they need due to scarcity, and Miller represents one of the most significant upgrades in talent available at the deadline.
Have you seen Miller's playoff numbers? Miller still wasn't good enough to carry the Sabre teams when they lacked scoring. His average is 2.47 in the playoffs for his career. The Blues scored 1.67 goals for in the playoffs.

The Blues have an actual goaltender in Halk who carried a MTL team in the playoffs.

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11-04-2013, 10:04 AM
  #75
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So Miller is going to get a shutout or give up 1 goal in most playoff games? He's a very good goalie, but he isn't going to magically turn into Hasek with us.
He's never played behind a possession juggernaut like the Blues. Even the 2010 team was middling in terms of having the puck, and its shutdown pairing was its most scored on defensive tandem.

Quote:
Getting Miller will likely be exactly what Bouwmeester did. His play will be elevated and he will look at lot better, the difference is Miller will be a very marginal upgrade over Halak, where as Bouwmeester was a massive upgrade.
Halak has played two games in two playoff series and has a S% under .910 through his past two regular seasons. What about him screams "he's definitely going to be healthy and be good enough to be our guy throughout the playoffs?"

Quote:
Scoring is our bigger problem, so Buffalo fans, send us Moulson proposals instead of the Miller ones. The only rumors that has us interested in Miller was over the summer before Halak proved he is our #1 this season.
You guys want essentially empty scoring? Moulson will score with whoever you put him because he's so damn good around the net, but he's a defensive liability and doesn't drive possession. What about the sum of the parts and system play and all that?

I'm not saying Miller deserves the poorly valued OP in return, but he just might represent the most significant on-paper upgrade available to the Blues come the deadline given Halak's level of inconsistency and Elliott's lack of talent.

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