HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

Battle of the Rebuilds, year end crap totals

View Poll Results: who will have more Pts this year Oilers or Flames
Oilers 131 39.82%
Flames 96 29.18%
if the oilers finish behind the Flames I am becoming a canuck fan 46 13.98%
this poll scares me 56 17.02%
Voters: 329. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-04-2013, 07:56 AM
  #101
Pennertration
Registered User
 
Pennertration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The Avs were a joke last year.

Where were you with your chart then?
Haha ... so true. It's not like the results of this season determine the "winner" of the rebuild. Depending on your point of view, that's the next rebuilding team to win the Cup or have consistent playoff success.

I find it hilarious that all the Flames fans are spewing idiotic remarks like "this rebuilding is easy" or "we've done in one season what the Oilers can't do in seven" ... OK. We'll see how things look later this season. And next season, etc.

Pennertration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 08:16 AM
  #102
AJGass4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 380
vCash: 500
Chicago looked like they were not even interested in playing last night.

I see Calgary is back to trap, trap, trap. It's like watching Minnesota. Good luck though, you have more to cheer about than we do right now.

AJGass4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 08:35 AM
  #103
dem
Registered User
 
dem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,579
vCash: 500
Oh no..
do we have to play?

dem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:00 AM
  #104
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The Avs were a joke last year.

Where were you with your chart then?
and the oilers were a joke for most of last year as well

Take a look at then info--Oilers rebuild started with them Gagner draft and how many years ago was that? Oilers started their rebuild before the Avs did--but that has obviously gone over you head

jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:17 AM
  #105
Pennertration
Registered User
 
Pennertration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
and the oilers were a joke for most of last year as well

Take a look at then info--Oilers rebuild started with them Gagner draft and how many years ago was that? Oilers started their rebuild before the Avs did--but that has obviously gone over you head
It's commonly believed that the rebuild started with the drafting of Hall, not Gagner.

Pennertration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:21 AM
  #106
CupofOil
Registered User
 
CupofOil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rock Bottom
Country: United States
Posts: 13,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
and the oilers were a joke for most of last year as well

Take a look at then info--Oilers rebuild started with them Gagner draft and how many years ago was that? Oilers started their rebuild before the Avs did--but that has obviously gone over you head


Do rebuilding teams chase Heatley with young players going the other way, chase Hossa and sign Khabibulin to long term deals?
The rebuild started when they dealt Staios and Visnovsky at the deadline then tanked the rest of that season so the latter half of the '09'-10 season going into the Hall draft.

CupofOil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #107
supert
Registered User
 
supert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
  team Wins Loses OTL PTs Goal for Goals against Top Goal scorer Most assists plus/minus Point getter games played
  3 9 2 8 36 59 Boyd Gordon 4 Nuge 4 Mark Arcobello 10 Jones +2 Eberle,hopkins , Archobello 15
  6 6 2 14 42 49 Monahan 6 hudler 8Russel +6 Hudler 13 14
  12 1 0 24 42 19Duschene 9 Mackinnon 9statney+10 Duschene 14 13

Decided to add Avalanche to add perspective of how bad the oilers are--avs year 5 of their rebuild as well

since people are saying I should not compare the oilers to the flames who are in year one of their rebuild--lets look at the Avalanche

Last 5 first round draft picks
Nathen Mckinnon
Gabriel Landeskog
Joey Hishon
Duncan Siemens
Matt Duchene

Oilers last 5 first rounders
Darnell Nurse
Nail Yakupov
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Oscar Klefbom
Taylor Hall

sorry for the dark turn here-- but this should add perspective to farcical this situation has become. All three teams have been to the cup final in the last ten years or so and have fallen on hard times.

I agree the Avs are a better comparison to the oilers since they started the rebuild at about the same time as the oilers and took legitimate chances to make changes in their dressing room.

Things that the AVs did to fix problems they new they had in net

two years ago they knew they had trouble and gambled is a trade with the caps
2011/07/01 Washington Capitals traded Semyon Varlamov to the Colorado Avalanche for a 1st round selection in 2012 and a conditional 2nd round selection.

and when they realized some of their kids were not working out--they shipped them to other teams for their kids who were not working out

2011/02/19 Colorado Avalanche traded Chris Stewart, Kevin Shattenkirk and a conditional second-round draft pick in 2011 or 2012 to the St. Louis Blues for Erik Johnson, Jay McClement and a conditional first-round draft pick in 2011 or 2012

three top picks during the rebuild
Matt Duchene
Gabriel Landeskog
Nathan MacKinnon

have scored 16 goals 18 assists for 34pts

VS
Eberle
Yakupov
Hall
Nuge
Gagner
who have 11goals 20assists 31pts

I realize that gagner, Nuge and Hall have missed time with injuries-but how many years have we been using that excuse? Eberle and Yakupov have 4 goals and 9 assists. Mckinnonen and 2 goals and 7 assists by himself.

If you look at out roster vs the avs roster, on paper we should be close to each other. However we are looking at 16pts difference in pts in the standings.

Both teams not have rookie GM and coaches, theirs are legends as well --on ourside we Lowe and mact who have I think 9 cup combined

2005/2006
Oilers 95pts No first rounder traded for Roloson)
Avs 95pts (draft chris stewart at 18)

2006/2007
Oilers 71pts (sam gagner 6th)
Avs 95pts (Draft Kevin Shattenkirk at 14)

2007/2008
Edmonton 88 pts (draft Eberle 22nd over all due to the Penner signing)
avs 95pts (no first round pick)

2008/2009
Oilers 85pts Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson at 10)
Aves 69pts (draft Matt Duschene at 3 and Ryan O'Reily at 33)

2009/2010
Oilers 62 pts Taylor Hall at 1
Avs 95pts (draft some guy names Joey Hilson at 17)

2010/2011
Oilers 62 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins at 1 and Oscar Klefbom at 19
Avs 68 (draft Gabriel Landeskog at 2)

2011/2012
Oilers 74 Nail Yakupov at one
Avs 88 (no first round pick as mentioned is the goalie trade above)

2012/2013
Oilers 45 Darnell Nurse at 7
Aves 39 Drafted Nathan MacKinnon first overall

First--what is the deal with the Avs and getting 95pts so much?
Second: AVS prove the rebuild goes beyond draft first overall.

I am hoping to have this thread about what teams have done different from the oilers during their rebuilds. I may add the NYI to the mix as well


Klefbom was not one of our 1st he was a trade and drafted in 2011 along with RNH , so it 4 drafts for the Oilers to 5 for the Avs . In term of years

supert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:25 AM
  #108
The Last Dynasty
Big #1 C
 
The Last Dynasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St. OILbert
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
Chicago looked like they were not even interested in playing last night.

I see Calgary is back to trap, trap, trap. It's like watching Minnesota. Good luck though, you have more to cheer about than we do right now.
who really cares, they outwork their opponents almost every night

something our group of losers only wish they could say

and I hate the Flames but at least they're a tough out

The Last Dynasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:27 AM
  #109
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,625
vCash: 500
The Oilers rebuild started with Hall and the Avs started with Duchene. They are a year ahead of us. That said they are clearly way ahead of us right now.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:57 AM
  #110
Slim2001
Registered User
 
Slim2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 193
vCash: 500
As stated above Oilers are in year 4 of the rebuild. In year 4 of the Av's rebuild their top picks did not have great seasons and they finished 29th overall and got the first overall pick. Year 5 they are doing great if the Oilers end up with one more good pick and start to dominate next year I am more than okay with this and the comparison.

Slim2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:03 AM
  #111
The Bored Man
#94
 
The Bored Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,380
vCash: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozwell View Post
and the oilers were a joke for most of last year as well

Take a look at then info--Oilers rebuild started with them Gagner draft and how many years ago was that? Oilers started their rebuild before the Avs did--but that has obviously gone over you head
I think your thread has really jumped the shark.

The Bored Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:06 AM
  #112
Oilers4life1987
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 429
vCash: 500
The only difference between all three teams is that Avs and I hate to say it but Flames have better goalie depth. If Dubnyk could've stolen some gaves that they deserved to win maybe ppl wouldn't be as upset as they are now.

Oilers4life1987 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:15 AM
  #113
Beerfish
Registered User
 
Beerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
It's commonly believed that the rebuild started with the drafting of Hall, not Gagner.
The 'rebuild' is a totally moving target to suit the person talking about it.

Beerfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:18 AM
  #114
Beerfish
Registered User
 
Beerfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 10,662
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim2001 View Post
As stated above Oilers are in year 4 of the rebuild. In year 4 of the Av's rebuild their top picks did not have great seasons and they finished 29th overall and got the first overall pick. Year 5 they are doing great if the Oilers end up with one more good pick and start to dominate next year I am more than okay with this and the comparison.
This line of thinking is beyond laughable. What 'year' of a rebuild a team is in is almost totally irrelevant. What is relevant is a team progressing each year as they gain experience and the front office adds more pieces. There is no magic timeline. There have been just as many teams that never achieved the great rebuild as did.

At this point in time this team looks worse than ever and that is a major problem.

Beerfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:33 AM
  #115
Pennertration
Registered User
 
Pennertration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The 'rebuild' is a totally moving target to suit the person talking about it.
I guess, but the word "rebuild" implies a plan or at least an intention to suck and reap rewards through the draft.

A team that targets high-priced FAs, goes after old players or tries to plug holes and sucks in spite of these efforts is not rebuilding - they just suck. A rebuilding team doesn't do the Penner offer sheet, sign Khabibulin or try to sign Hossa to a long, restrictive contract. They just don't.

Flames rebuild, for example, didn't start with drafting Baertschi. It began with trading away Iggy and JayBo.

Pennertration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:34 AM
  #116
Playa Hejda
Registered User
 
Playa Hejda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: #yeg
Posts: 362
vCash: 117
I can't decide which is worse (depending on which version of the timeline you believe) that the Oilers have wasted 8 years trying to rebuild and this is the best result our management team could produce or that they spent 3-5 of these 8 years actually trying to win and this is the best result our management team could produce. Either way it's an embarrassment.

Playa Hejda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:35 AM
  #117
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
The 'rebuild' is a totally moving target to suit the person talking about it.
for some reason, people take the rebuild start as to the moment the oilers called it that even though it was obvious in the season before they drafted Hall that the team was not going to do anything when all the top guys were injured and the oilers were in a free fall.

For me, the rebuild start date is the day the traded Smyth to the NYI and ever since then they have been tripping themselves up

jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:38 AM
  #118
Playa Hejda
Registered User
 
Playa Hejda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: #yeg
Posts: 362
vCash: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennertration View Post
I guess, but the word "rebuild" implies a plan or at least an intention to suck and reap rewards through the draft.

A team that targets high-priced FAs, goes after old players or tries to plug holes and sucks in spite of these efforts is not rebuilding - they just suck. A rebuilding team doesn't do the Penner offer sheet, sign Khabibulin or try to sign Hossa to a long, restrictive contract. They just don't.

Flames rebuild, for example, didn't start with drafting Baertschi. It began with trading away Iggy and JayBo.
So could you make the argument for the Oilers it started when they were forced to trade Christopher Robert Pronger only the esteemed management team didn't realize it?

Side note: I always thought his middle name was Francis, not sure why.

Playa Hejda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:39 AM
  #119
Perfect_Drug
Registered User
 
Perfect_Drug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,015
vCash: 500
Avalanche are balanced, and built like Chicago.

Oilers are built like the Thrashers.

Perfect_Drug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 10:53 AM
  #120
Pennertration
Registered User
 
Pennertration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playa Hedja View Post
So could you make the argument for the Oilers it started when they were forced to trade Christopher Robert Pronger only the esteemed management team didn't realize it?

Side note: I always thought his middle name was Francis, not sure why.
You can make any argument you want. Again, I see a rebuild to mean some kind of plan - a plan to suck, if you will. Or at least to endure sucking while you do a season or two of assessment and then follow that up with drafting high and supporting those cornerstone players with a good team.

I don't think the Pronger trade or the Smyth trade was the start of a plan to suck - they just happened to suck in spite of their best efforts after those events.

I actually don't see how the timeline is that difficult to grasp but I think you need to have a clear definition of the word rebuild - and not everyone agrees on what that is.

Pennertration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 11:03 AM
  #121
Playa Hejda
Registered User
 
Playa Hejda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: #yeg
Posts: 362
vCash: 117
I understand the timeline, I even believe it to some extent. My only problem is how admitting to a rebuild became a free pass to some people for the last 8 seasons.

Playa Hejda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 11:03 AM
  #122
Slim2001
Registered User
 
Slim2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
This line of thinking is beyond laughable. What 'year' of a rebuild a team is in is almost totally irrelevant. What is relevant is a team progressing each year as they gain experience and the front office adds more pieces. There is no magic timeline. There have been just as many teams that never achieved the great rebuild as did.

At this point in time this team looks worse than ever and that is a major problem.
That is not entirely true after we drafted Hall there was a lot of talk about a 5 year rebuild plan. It takes time for young players to develop. We drafted high end skill which will continue to get better for at least the next 5 years. We drafted gritty bottom 6 players in the last few drafts which should produce at least a couple cheap players for the bottom 6 when the Oilers will be actual contenders (2015-16?).

We all want the team to be good now but if we don't make the playoffs this year or even next year it would only show that rebuilding through the draft is a really slow process. Edmonton does not have the luxury of being a sought after free agent location to speed up the rebuild. Players are starting to recognize the Oilers will be good soon and last year we got Gordon and Ference which is a good start but we are still not going to attract a Lundquist or Miller to fix the goaltending issues this summer.

We know we have too many perimeter skill players and a lack of grit a few trades are needed and further development of our draft picks will be required before we can consider this team a contender. The team does not look "worse than ever" on paper most of us thought it was a bubble playoff team this year which is more than the predictions were sense the start of the rebuild. This year has been underwhelming but we are still a rebuilding team and at least for now patience is still required.

Slim2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 11:14 AM
  #123
Pennertration
Registered User
 
Pennertration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,486
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playa Hedja View Post
I understand the timeline, I even believe it to some extent. My only problem is how admitting to a rebuild became a free pass to some people for the last 8 seasons.
I definitely don't think the team gets a free pass. But I give major credit to fans for being patient up until now. I think that patience is either razor thin or gone now - and rightfully so.

Each year over the last few years, it's been enduring with the hope of a better day and many - myself included - thought this year would be a turn the corner type of year. Instead, it's Groundhog Day and I've never been more frustrated/depressed/disappointed. My biggest mistake has been assuming: it can't get any worse. Yes, yes it can.

Pennertration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 11:22 AM
  #124
Distinct
Registered User
 
Distinct's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Country: Canada
Posts: 148
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
Avalanche are balanced, and built like Chicago.

Oilers are built like the Thrashers.
Except that version of the thrashers would still run our show

Distinct is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 11:26 AM
  #125
Playa Hejda
Registered User
 
Playa Hejda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: #yeg
Posts: 362
vCash: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Distinct View Post
Except that version of the thrashers would still run our show
Not with Mike Bishai on the bench they wouldn't.

Playa Hejda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:57 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.