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Battle of the Rebuilds, year end crap totals

View Poll Results: who will have more Pts this year Oilers or Flames
Oilers 131 39.82%
Flames 96 29.18%
if the oilers finish behind the Flames I am becoming a canuck fan 46 13.98%
this poll scares me 56 17.02%
Voters: 329. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-04-2013, 11:45 AM
  #126
Mr Forever
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Here's my perfect world:

Hall, Gagner and Smid for OEL and Hanzal

Eberle, J Schultz for Simmonds, the Schenns

Simmonds - RNH - Yak
Perron - Hanzal - Hemsky
XXXX - Schenn - XXXX
Joensuu - Gordon - Pitlick

OEL - Petry
Ference - Schenn
Belov - Klefbom
N Schultz

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Old
11-04-2013, 12:06 PM
  #127
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I don't think COL will be able to maintain their current play. They are playing very well but also have some pretty irregular stats, most notably GA/G. Historically, not even the best teams in the league are able to maintain less than 1.5 GA/G. I do think they are much improved and will most likely be a playoff team, but to think they'll go from worst to first maintaining a 90.9 PK%, 94.5sv%, and 1.5GA/G over a full NHL season is crazy.

Going into the season, many felt COL had a bottom 5 defensive core. Over 82 games, I think they will falter, it remains to be seen how much and for how long the team will struggle when they inevitably hit rough patches (like every team does).

Another thing to note about their final league standings throughout their rebuild (2009):
2009/10 -- 12th
2010/11 -- 29th
2011/12 -- 20th
2012/13 -- 29th
2013/14 -- 1st* at the end of OCT

Based on past seasons, they look right on track continuing their season-to-season yo-yo.


Nevertheless, I am jealous of them and incredibly embarrassed by EDM's progress.

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Old
11-04-2013, 01:23 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Slim2001 View Post
As stated above Oilers are in year 4 of the rebuild. In year 4 of the Av's rebuild their top picks did not have great seasons and they finished 29th overall and got the first overall pick. Year 5 they are doing great if the Oilers end up with one more good pick and start to dominate next year I am more than okay with this and the comparison.
I get what you are saying. But if Colorado's rebuild started when they drafted Duchene, then the Oilers ARE behind. Colorado finished IN the playoffs in 2010, a year after they started their rebuild, a year after Edmonton started theirs, they drafted RNH.

Hard to compare the 2, Oilers have clearly been worse during their "rebuild" than Colorado has been. Last year the totally underachieved and i am 99% sure they tanked on purpose. Sacco was the worst coach in the universe.

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Old
11-04-2013, 01:53 PM
  #129
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One of the problems is that the Oilers management took a carte blanche for the rebuild - beleving that the goal was the to draft a #1 pick (or close to) every year. for how many years is this acceptable?

Personally, I think they should have tried to improve the team every season after the Hall draft, instead of trading away every single veteran player to tank even more. But instead it was a burnt earth plan - and we replaced solid players with undependable or inexperienced players.

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Old
11-04-2013, 07:18 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post


Do rebuilding teams chase Heatley with young players going the other way, chase Hossa and sign Khabibulin to long term deals?
The rebuild started when they dealt Staios and Visnovsky at the deadline then tanked the rest of that season so the latter half of the '09'-10 season going into the Hall draft.
Sorry, KLowe was telling a group of friends last week that the rebuild officially started last year. So we only have 4 more years of this. Stiff upper lip folks.

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Old
11-04-2013, 07:30 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Playa Hedja View Post
I can't decide which is worse (depending on which version of the timeline you believe) that the Oilers have wasted 8 years trying to rebuild and this is the best result our management team could produce or that they spent 3-5 of these 8 years actually trying to win and this is the best result our management team could produce. Either way it's an embarrassment.
Yes. In any case the average fan is surely beyond swallowing all the nonsense about "patience" or "rebuilds take time". That sort of junk can fly for so long. We are long past the point now.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:41 PM
  #132
Petes2424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Here's my perfect world:

Hall, Gagner and Smid for OEL and Hanzal

Eberle, J Schultz for Simmonds, the Schenns

Simmonds - RNH - Yak
Perron - Hanzal - Hemsky
XXXX - Schenn - XXXX
Joensuu - Gordon - Pitlick

OEL - Petry
Ference - Schenn
Belov - Klefbom
N Schultz
For what it's worth, there's nobody that could legitimately land any team OEL. He's probably the most untradable player in the league.

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Old
11-04-2013, 09:54 PM
  #133
Mr Forever
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
For what it's worth, there's nobody that could legitimately land any team OEL. He's probably the most untradable player in the league.
You're probably right. I believe he will be the best D man in the league in three years.

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Old
11-04-2013, 10:09 PM
  #134
Petes2424
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I understand the timeline, I even believe it to some extent. My only problem is how admitting to a rebuild became a free pass to some people for the last 8 seasons.
Right.. And then it seems we're only talking about those 1st round picks. Over the last ten years, this team has been downright horrible with the overall best draft picks in the league per round.

The Oilers have a TOTAL of 8 NHL players who they drafted in the last 10 years.

They only have a TOTAL of 20 of the 79 players they've drafted under contract. So only 12 players not playing in the NHL were drafted by the club.

Out of those 12 non NHL contracts, only 3 were players NOT drafted in the 3rd round or higher. Those players are Omark, Roy and Gernat.

That is the number one reason this team is where it's at. We can argue all day about RNH vs Landeskog or Yak vs Mackinnon.... whatever...

In contrast, and I use them as an example all the time because they're run the right way, Detroit, who's had the WORST overall draft picks in regards to order, has 14 on the active roster not counting Datsyuk, Franzen or Zetterberg because they're pre 2004 but this is the real telling number.... They have 40 players under contract who they drafted in the last 10 years. 43 they drafted overall and 2 others in Glendenning and Dekeyser who are local kids they signed as UFA...

So a team that drafts in the upper part of every round for 10 years on average, has 20 players over the last ten years and a team that drafts in the lower half every year has over 40...

That's why this team cannot win. They have drafted with an all or none mentality. Where's the drafting of guys like Helm, Abdelkader, Andersson, etc... They dont draft role players throughout the draft. People kind of chukled at Detroit when they grabbed Tyler Bertuzzi late in the second round this past year because he wasnt rated higher.... As Ken Holland said after, he had an extra second round pick and took the best role player in the draft in their opinion. This team needs to think this same way.

So for now, they're going to have to fill the role player holes outside of the organization. Until they start drafting and developing these guys, it's gonna be the same old story...

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Old
11-04-2013, 10:46 PM
  #135
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You're probably right. I believe he will be the best D man in the league in three years.
Two and a half by my count.

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Old
11-04-2013, 11:06 PM
  #136
okgooil
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Just imagine if Calgary ended up with 3 first overall picks as well.


Taylor Hall
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
Nail Yakupov


vs

Aaron Ekblad
Connor McDavid
Tyler Benson?
THe flames can have Ekblad, but I don't want them getting McDavid. Please send him to Florida, Buffalo, where ever, not Calgary.

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Old
11-08-2013, 03:13 AM
  #137
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this is getting depressing

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Old
11-14-2013, 09:28 PM
  #138
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Looks like the Flames and Avalanche have fallen back down to earth

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Old
11-15-2013, 02:07 AM
  #139
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Yeah well the Stars did shut us out, but at least they didn't score a touchdown on us.

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11-15-2013, 05:55 AM
  #140
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I can not believe we are in 29th spot

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Old
11-15-2013, 03:11 PM
  #141
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I can not believe we are in 29th spot
Well you better believed we're in 30th spot when the Sharks dismantle the Oilers and Buffalo beats Toronto today

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Old
11-15-2013, 04:01 PM
  #142
nexttothemoon
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I agree it's surprising the Oilers aren't dead last but Buffalo has had a tougher schedule that the Oilers as well so far. Just wait until the Oilers play more tough Western clubs and we'll likely see them take a strangle hold on 30th.

The wild card is Bryzgalov... just how big of a factor can he be in helping them edge towards mediocrity... maybe up one level from atrocious where they are now.

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Old
11-16-2013, 08:43 PM
  #143
guymez
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One thing that needs to be factored into the Flames rebuild is that they have accomplished an important part of their rebuild in year 1...continuity of coaching and Management.
They can build this team and incorporate the same system year after year something this incompetent management couldn't figure out since the Oiler rebuild started.

Oiler coaches during the rebuild...Quinn, Renney, Kruger and Eakins.
Oiler GM's....Tambo and MacT.

The Flames can move forward with their Management/Coaches because they already have solid people in place....something the Oilers failed at.
Hartley us an excellent coach and Feaster/Burke is light years ahead of the Lowe/MacT tandem.

The Flames went to school on the circus up the highway and are starting things off right.

Some arrows are already pointed in the right direction for them so I would expect their rebuild to be a lot more efficient.

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Old
11-16-2013, 08:59 PM
  #144
Mr Forever
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Ugh I just realized Colorado was added to this comparison. Now it isn't even fair and we're going to look really bad.

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Old
11-16-2013, 09:53 PM
  #145
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Ugh I just realized Colorado was added to this comparison. Now it isn't even fair and we're going to look really bad.
Is there a comparison that would make this sad sack franchise look good?

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Old
11-23-2013, 08:13 AM
  #146
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Updated

for stat geeks-- no one on the Avs is a minus while only about 5 oilers are a plus

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Old
11-23-2013, 08:59 AM
  #147
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Avs are also a year ahead of us. They started rebuilding a season before we did.

Regarding the Flames and their coaching and management, that could change. If it doesn't, maybe they did learn from us. They weren't smart enough to figure out they needed to rebuild when it was plain for everyone to see.

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Old
11-28-2013, 08:53 AM
  #148
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Avs are also a year ahead of us. They started rebuilding a season before we did.

Regarding the Flames and their coaching and management, that could change. If it doesn't, maybe they did learn from us. They weren't smart enough to figure out they needed to rebuild when it was plain for everyone to see.
IF you decide the rebuild started with the Hall draft or the oilers picking the date.

I have been arguing for awhile the start date was the moment Smyth got traded for O'Mera, Nilson and a first that for me is the start date-- after that the oilers just refeused to admit that they were in the rebuild--all moves. they did in the three years after that trade--almost all were stupid. Bad trades and signings. For me this is year 7 ( I start with the Gagner draft)But it makes people and the oiler management to say the rebuild started with the Hall draft--but it started before that

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Old
11-28-2013, 09:40 AM
  #149
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IF you decide the rebuild started with the Hall draft or the oilers picking the date.

I have been arguing for awhile the start date was the moment Smyth got traded for O'Mera, Nilson and a first that for me is the start date-- after that the oilers just refeused to admit that they were in the rebuild--all moves. they did in the three years after that trade--almost all were stupid. Bad trades and signings. For me this is year 7 ( I start with the Gagner draft)But it makes people and the oiler management to say the rebuild started with the Hall draft--but it started before that
nah for me the rebuild started in 2010 when the management decided to get rid of the old core ..Moreau, Staios, Penner, Visnovsky, Grebeshkov and Souray.

I just dont think we should be comparing our rebuild with Flames.. Colarado and the Islanders are the closest to us in terms of timeline..

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Old
11-28-2013, 09:43 AM
  #150
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And you look to the Islanders and they almost seem back to square one, so maybe that's a lesson that improvement can be ephemeral and not always in a straight line.

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