HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

What's our real problem?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-04-2013, 04:16 PM
  #201
oilinblood
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,745
vCash: 553
Our real problem? We play pond hockey. Last time i checked, this wasnt shinny pick-up its the NHL.

oilinblood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 04:23 PM
  #202
GO99
HFBoards Sponsor
 
GO99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,914
vCash: 355
To me it is two problems.

My biggest issue is just development. It's already been said, but a lot of our players should have been sheltered longer with good vets that they could learn from.

Datsyuk and Zetterberg learned from Yzerman and Co. Now Detroits younger players are learning from Datsyuk.

We had Hemsky and Horcoff lol. You don't learn much from those guys. We have thrown our rookies into the fire.

That is managements fault.

Coaching changes I blame as well. How can you get in a groove and learn systems when they change every year?
--------------------------------------------------

Besides all of this, it still does not take blame away from the players. They have shown pathetic efforts and repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again.

It would help if the forwards came back to help the D more as well.

There is still onus on the players. Act like you give a damn. Try to forecheck, try to hit, try to hustle....

GO99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 06:15 PM
  #203
thinlizzy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 440
vCash: 500
This article makes me a little pissed.

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...monton-oilers/

thinlizzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 06:54 PM
  #204
tiger_80
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,597
vCash: 500
Every imaginable problem in professional hockey applies to this team.

1. Horrible management that has no concept of building a successful team and repeatedly ignores glaring holes.
2. bad drafting/development over the years
3. horrid professional scouting.
4. coaching carousel.
5. entitled players.

tiger_80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 06:59 PM
  #205
AJGass4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
The above plus no one wants to play here, according to most.

I guess we should be happy we have a team? I don't know what the answers are anymore and there is so much wrong I'm not sure where to start.

After 2006:

Pronger held us hostage.

Peca didn't feel the need to compete for a cup after getting within one *** goal of winning it.

Lowe traded away or didn't resign the guts of this team, Stoll and Torres and then paid Pisani too much but he was at least man enough to stick around.

We kept Horcoff and Hemmer way too long. Either that or no one thought they were any good.

So many things point back to Lowe that I think I'll just blame him.

Plus getting coaches that scream "We will be hard to play against, we will be competitive." Blah, Blah, Blah.

It's either the guys won't or simply aren't capable of competing.

JUST A *** SAD STATE BOTH FRANCHISES ARE IN RIGHT NOW.

AJGass4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 07:01 PM
  #206
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilinblood View Post
Our real problem? We play pond hockey. Last time i checked, this wasnt shinny pick-up its the NHL.
+1

IMO this is the real problem.. We have the flash and dash that would have worked in the 80's but we are far from a team that can play solid 60 mins..
Guys like Hall, Ebs, Yak, Hemsky and even Nuge and Perron play for the fancy 1 on 1 dipsy doodle.. There is no structure in this team..

If Hemsky is the best complete forward we have according to Eakins then there shouldnt be a surprise why we are sucking.

Petro Points is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 07:07 PM
  #207
AJGass4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
I call it a disorganized mess. That's what I see.

I can't help but think that has something to do with coaching.

AJGass4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 07:11 PM
  #208
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,504
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
+1

IMO this is the real problem.. We have the flash and dash that would have worked in the 80's but we are far from a team that can play solid 60 mins..
Guys like Hall, Ebs, Yak, Hemsky and even Nuge and Perron play for the fancy 1 on 1 dipsy doodle.. There is no structure in this team..

If Hemsky is the best complete forward we have according to Eakins then there shouldnt be a surprise why we are sucking.
I was just talking about this and I'm not sure if it's coaching or the playing style or the defense is just that much better covering these guys....

have they gotten worse offensively? are they trying to do things differently than last year? It seems like they had much more space last year and either the defense just adapted or they are trying to play a system that somehow requires them to suck it in the offensive zone.

BoldNewLettuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 07:14 PM
  #209
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoldNewLettuce View Post
I was just talking about this and I'm not sure if it's coaching or the playing style or the defense is just that much better covering these guys....

have they gotten worse offensively? are they trying to do things differently than last year? It seems like they had much more space last year and either the defense just adapted or they are trying to play a system that somehow requires them to suck it in the offensive zone.
I know RNH had a great rookie season but he should not be the #1C on this team.
Same goes for Eberle and Yak.. They put up numbers but should be sheltered behind vets. Petry as #1D is a joke.. This team has serious issues.

Petro Points is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 07:56 PM
  #210
Zoombie
Registered User
 
Zoombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 908
vCash: 500
To me it just looks like a lack of a team game (+effort). Oil have too many players who are used to being able to win with an individual effort, but that doesn't work against NHL systems and defense.

Zoombie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 08:04 PM
  #211
Gone
Fire KLowe
 
Gone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger_80 View Post
Every imaginable problem in professional hockey applies to this team.

1. Horrible management that has no concept of building a successful team and repeatedly ignores glaring holes.
2. bad drafting/development over the years
3. horrid professional scouting.
4. coaching carousel.
5. entitled players.
This is kinda of hitting the nail on the head.

Gone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 08:12 PM
  #212
HackandLube
Registered User
 
HackandLube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoombie View Post
To me it just looks like a lack of a team game (+effort). Oil have too many players who are used to being able to win with an individual effort, but that doesn't work against NHL systems and defense.
This. Successful NHL teams are greater than the sum of their parts and the Oilers are made up of a bunch of random parts that just don't add up.

The Flames have a guy like all the Oilers big draft picks. Sven Baertschi. Here's a skill-based guy with 94 points in 47 games in the juniors and was used to taking over a game with individual effort.

He hits the NHL and the production disappears because reportedly he was pouting and then Brian Burke calls him out for not being a complete, compete player in all three zones. He has to learn to the play in the system and while his skill still shows in flashes, he's still trying to figure it out.

Fortunately for the Flames, it's just that one guy that's figuring it out and they are mentoring him with classic Red Wing school guy (Jiri Hudler) on his line. I think the Oilers have 5 or 6 guys with that problem with nobody to mentor them properly.

The Oilers old boys management team rebuilt without the proper mentorship built into the team. Crosby broke into the league by living with Mario Lemiuex!

HackandLube is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:17 PM
  #213
Crabapple
Registered User
 
Crabapple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,067
vCash: 898
We've got no guys who know how to be successful in the NHL. Outside of Andrew Ference, we've got kids who try to coast on their skill, and fringe nhl players. Relying on kids aged 19-23 has failed.

Look at Mark Arcobello, his time in the AHL has taught him what it takes to be a successful pro, even if he doesn't have the skill of our other guys.

Crabapple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 09:20 PM
  #214
armandh01
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,552
vCash: 500
Lack of quality veteran leadership guiding the kids through the years. One big difference between Chicago, Pitts etc versus Us is the veteran quality. We have almost none here.

armandh01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-04-2013, 11:57 PM
  #215
Neuron
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 17
vCash: 500
Gamechangers

Does anyone believe the team is just missing possibly one player that would be the glue that keeps the team on a winning path throughout the season. Or will this definatly need a multi-player shake up to right the ship?

Neuron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 12:02 AM
  #216
Comrade Blunderbore
Генерал Файлюра
 
Comrade Blunderbore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: КПЗ
Country: New Zealand-Maori
Posts: 1,716
vCash: 500
unless you are thinking Crosby or Malkin, the answer is a fairly easy no.

and even if we were getting Malkin (which is a pretty fat chance) that would be part of a huge multi-player shake up as well.


Last edited by Comrade Blunderbore: 11-05-2013 at 12:07 AM.
Comrade Blunderbore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 02:28 AM
  #217
Bank Shot
Registered User
 
Bank Shot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,257
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HackandLube View Post

Fortunately for the Flames, it's just that one guy that's figuring it out and they are mentoring him with classic Red Wing school guy (Jiri Hudler) on his line. I think the Oilers have 5 or 6 guys with that problem with nobody to mentor them properly.

The Oilers old boys management team rebuilt without the proper mentorship built into the team. Crosby broke into the league by living with Mario Lemiuex!
If Jiri Hudler is your mentor, you're doing it wrong.

That's not any better then having guys like Hemsky or Perron or Gagner around.

Bank Shot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 02:36 AM
  #218
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
Bozo Buddies
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,800
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
If Jiri Hudler is your mentor, you're doing it wrong.

That's not any better then having guys like Hemsky or Perron or Gagner around.
True but they have heart and soul guys like Giordano, Glencross, etc. IMO the work ethic and not taking things for granted part is something that this team hasn't had until Ference.

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 03:09 AM
  #219
Shanahanigans
Registered User
 
Shanahanigans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,560
vCash: 500
If Eberle was on a team like San Jose, he'd be an elite player. Put Couture on the Oilers, and he'd struggle big time.
Put Schultz on the Preds, he'd look amazing. Put Jones in Edmonton, he busts quicker than Bosingore.

Why these random scenarios? Every single team in the league develops players by SHELTERING THEM. Eberle did amazing in his sophmore season because he was sheltered. I believe Eberle is a complimentary player who doesn't need to be sheltered anymore, but only when playing with our only elite player in Hall.

RNH has ridiculous potential. Anyone who watches this team can see. This guy is 20 years old. He was a teenager 6 months ago. He didn't step onto the ice for 6 months while recovering from shoulder surgery. He's 175lb. Yet he gets matched against Datsyuk, Crosby, Thornton, etc. because we have nobody else who can do it.

Justin Schultz was thrown into our top pairing last year. He struggled defensively. New season, new coach, new system. 60 games into his NHL career. He has no idea what the heck he is doing out there anymore.

On the Hawks in 2010, Toews was 22 and Kane was 21. You know which veterans they had on the team to learn from and protect them and teach them a team game? Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Byfuglien, Ladd, Carcillo, Keith, Seabrook, Brouwer, Burish, Campbell, Kopecy, John Madden, Verseteeg. All these players were at least 24 during that cup run. Think they didn't help Toews and Kane turn into superstars? You think that if we had a 22 year old Toews, and a 21 year old Kane, that we wouldn't be as bad as we are now? You think our current roster could give those guys anything to work with? Kane had Hossa on his line. RNH has Ryan Freaking Jones.

On the Penguins in 2009, these are the vets they had that were over 25 and helped Sid, Malkin and Letang become superstars: Talbot, Sykora, Satan, Kunitz, Guerin, Gonchar, Cooke, Adams, Fedetenko, Dupuis, Gill, Orpik, Scuderi.

Other than Orpik and Talbot, every single one of those guys was acquired AFTER Sid was drafted in 2005.

The Oilers have 3 players who fit the mold of veterans who can help teach the young players to play a pro game: Smid, Gordon, and Ference. 3rd line centre, a #4 dman, and a #5 Dman.

We haven't developed these players probably. We can be thankful that Taylor Hall was talented enough to turn out like he did. I just hope we don't screw up the development of RNH, Yak, and J Schultz.

If Yak is struggling, who is he getting tips from. Smyth? Eager? (P.S.- RNH said in the paper that he has been giving tips and advice to Yak and J Schultz so that they can get out of their Sophmore slumps. 20 year old Nuge.) Great job management. Great freaking job.


Last edited by Shanahanigans: 11-05-2013 at 03:14 AM.
Shanahanigans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 03:16 AM
  #220
T-Funk
Registered User
 
T-Funk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,122
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
True but they have heart and soul guys like Giordano, Glencross, etc. IMO the work ethic and not taking things for granted part is something that this team hasn't had until Ference.
I have yet to see Ference say or do anything that has actually made a difference. Complaining about work ethic and attitudes in the locker room is a lot different than actually fixing work ethic and attitudes in the locker room.

T-Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 03:27 AM
  #221
raab
Where's the Hart?
 
raab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,958
vCash: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
I have yet to see Ference say or do anything that has actually made a difference. Complaining about work ethic and attitudes in the locker room is a lot different than actually fixing work ethic and attitudes in the locker room.
Im not really sure what you expect him to show you? Until we have 23 guys who want to come to the rink and battle every night this team is doomed to fail. Right now I can count on 1 hand how may guys come to compete for the Oilers on any given night. It's one of the reasons I feel we should trade on of the kids in Yak or Eberle(who I have been against trading for a long time).

raab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 05:54 AM
  #222
Soundwave
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,176
vCash: 500
They don't need leaders that will give speeches and show them how to "play".

We were sold that line when Smyth was brought back and again when Ference was signed.

They need guys who will actually get the puck in battles for them. Guys who hit to hurt. Guys who do the dirty work on the boards.

That's what this team is missing. A whole lot of nastiness, puck retrieval, and board beasts.

You could immediately see what Joensuu and Pitlick brought to the lineup was like a jolt of lightning. We need more of those jolts, it's horrible luck that both got injured so quickly.

The core IMO can work, but first off, Hemsky and Gagner are the redundant pieces. They need to be replaced with guys who do the above.

Speeches and all that IMO are overrated. Colorado's kids are carrying them. The head coach is the one who needs the fill that role, the kids need help on the freaking ice, not in the locker room. A speech isn't going to help when RNH and Yakupov are getting blasted into the boards trying to fish out a puck.

Remember the last time we almost made the playoffs? Gagner-Nilsson-Cogliano did great, but that team also had rough characters and more sandpaper than this squad does. You have to dish out punishment, if you are a skilled team but you invite other teams to push you around physically, eventually it leads to a destruction of morale within the locker room.

Soundwave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 07:17 AM
  #223
AJGass4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 523
vCash: 500
I disagree with the Glencross thing. Half the time people in Calgary are lipping him off because he's useless.

But we don't have anyone that can turn the game around with a big hit or a goalie that can give us that one save that changes the game.

We just don't have the right people on the ice. I agree with Soundwave about Pitlick and JJ though. How can we suffer so many brutal injuries all at once.

I swear, this team is cursed.

AJGass4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 08:16 AM
  #224
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
If Eberle was on a team like San Jose, he'd be an elite player. Put Couture on the Oilers, and he'd struggle big time.
Put Schultz on the Preds, he'd look amazing. Put Jones in Edmonton, he busts quicker than Bosingore.

Why these random scenarios? Every single team in the league develops players by SHELTERING THEM. Eberle did amazing in his sophmore season because he was sheltered. I believe Eberle is a complimentary player who doesn't need to be sheltered anymore, but only when playing with our only elite player in Hall.

RNH has ridiculous potential. Anyone who watches this team can see. This guy is 20 years old. He was a teenager 6 months ago. He didn't step onto the ice for 6 months while recovering from shoulder surgery. He's 175lb. Yet he gets matched against Datsyuk, Crosby, Thornton, etc. because we have nobody else who can do it.

Justin Schultz was thrown into our top pairing last year. He struggled defensively. New season, new coach, new system. 60 games into his NHL career. He has no idea what the heck he is doing out there anymore.

On the Hawks in 2010, Toews was 22 and Kane was 21. You know which veterans they had on the team to learn from and protect them and teach them a team game? Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Byfuglien, Ladd, Carcillo, Keith, Seabrook, Brouwer, Burish, Campbell, Kopecy, John Madden, Verseteeg. All these players were at least 24 during that cup run. Think they didn't help Toews and Kane turn into superstars? You think that if we had a 22 year old Toews, and a 21 year old Kane, that we wouldn't be as bad as we are now? You think our current roster could give those guys anything to work with? Kane had Hossa on his line. RNH has Ryan Freaking Jones.

On the Penguins in 2009, these are the vets they had that were over 25 and helped Sid, Malkin and Letang become superstars: Talbot, Sykora, Satan, Kunitz, Guerin, Gonchar, Cooke, Adams, Fedetenko, Dupuis, Gill, Orpik, Scuderi.

Other than Orpik and Talbot, every single one of those guys was acquired AFTER Sid was drafted in 2005.

The Oilers have 3 players who fit the mold of veterans who can help teach the young players to play a pro game: Smid, Gordon, and Ference. 3rd line centre, a #4 dman, and a #5 Dman.

We haven't developed these players probably. We can be thankful that Taylor Hall was talented enough to turn out like he did. I just hope we don't screw up the development of RNH, Yak, and J Schultz.

If Yak is struggling, who is he getting tips from. Smyth? Eager? (P.S.- RNH said in the paper that he has been giving tips and advice to Yak and J Schultz so that they can get out of their Sophmore slumps. 20 year old Nuge.) Great job management. Great freaking job.
Exactly!

A few more additions: from the day Kane and Crosby set out on the ice their mgmt surrounded them with other vets who had already moved on by the time they were ready for the cup. Nevertheless these guys also helped shoulder the burden while they developed. Guys like Llemieux and Recchi in Pits and Khabi (who had just finished winning a cup in TB) come to mind.

These guys did exactly what they were supposed to.... Kept those impressionable kids from falling into a crisis of confidence.

And that's what's happened here. No amount of popcorn munching shots will convince me that our guys aren't trying hard enough... The problem is they've forgotten (or have yet to learn/introspect) how good teams bail each other out after an inevitable mistake. They are trying so hard not to be the guy to let the team down that they are doing exactly that. Did you see RNH after the Datsyuk goal? COMPLETE FRUSTRATION. Guesss what kid, you just got schooled by a hall of famer.

Guys like Gordon and Ference are the right steps, but it doesn't work if guys like Khabi and Horc are on the way out.... Granted Khabi and Horc may not be the best vets out there, but we needed a net ADD of vets, not neutrality in that department. The fact that we filled out our role players with Belovs and Joensuu's only perpetuates the problem. All of these guys are now learning what it takes to lose in the NHL.

We need to get healthy AND we need to have at least 1 probably 2 quantity for quality trades to upgrade our starting lineup... And that's just to salvage this season from inflicting permanent damage. Next summer we need to do it all over again.

bucks_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-05-2013, 08:21 AM
  #225
Ukgoalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 281
vCash: 500
Anyone else think that j shultz's long term future (if not traded) is as a 2nd/3rd line winger ? He basically plays like it anyway.

Ukgoalie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.