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Trade Rumors/Speculation Thread Part II (Mod warning post #861)

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Old
11-05-2013, 10:01 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I don't think the Kovalchuk vs. Yakupov comparison is all that valid -- Kovalchuk is a physical marvel, which helped him immensely.

Even then, the NHL game proved to be too difficult for him.
Too difficult? The guy scored A TON. I think the comparisons are pretty close actually.

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11-05-2013, 10:03 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I'm just pointing out the possibility that the Ducks are scouting a greater need than what the Rangers have to offer them. Who says they're asking Messier's advice on anything regarding the Rangers players? Why do they need to watch a Rangers game in person to ask Messier's advice in the first place? Brooks and Dreger are only doing what you're doing (speculating), not reporting on actual rumors.

And would it really be shocking to see the Ducks add a player like Hemsky to further increase their chances of making noise come playoff time?
I'm not doubting they need goaltending, but there is a lot of smoke for there not to be fire with all the reporting going on, with even the Edmonton paper reporting it now. No mention of the Ducks. They were there to see the Rangers play. Messier has been involved in the Rangers organization for the past few years, and has intimate knowledge of players. It's beyond reasonable to see that as them getting advice. The ducks need Hemsky?

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11-05-2013, 10:03 AM
  #303
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Yakupov can either be a great player or an average player it's all on him. A willingness to do the things the coach asks and to adjust will help him reach his potential. Being a malcontent won't do anything for him except let him go home to Russia and make big money.

What I've seen of Yakupov and his character he is more of an Ovechkin than a Radulov. What I mean there is he seems to relish the spotlight and the idea of being a big star in the NHL still appeals to him whereas Radulov didn't care he wanted to make money and was happier doing that in Russia than NA.

I would definitely take the gamble with Yakupov, see what a change of scenery does for his attitude. He may not like Edmonton, he may feel like he's taking a back seat to Hall, Eberle, and RNH.

He needs to play a complete game, maybe our coaching staff and younger forwards can convince him it's best for his career.

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11-05-2013, 10:03 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Too difficult? The guy scored A TON. I think the comparisons are pretty close actually.
I couldn't believe that statement when I read it. He was a PPG player over more than 800 games and scored at a rate of more than half a goal a game. The NHL wasn't too difficult for the guy. Far, far, far from it.

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11-05-2013, 10:05 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
I'm not doubting they need goaltending, but there is a lot of smoke for there not to be fire with all the reporting going on, with even the Edmonton paper reporting it now. No mention of the Ducks. They were there to see the Rangers play. Messier has been involved in the Rangers organization for the past few years, and has intimate knowledge of players. It's beyond reasonable to see that as them getting advice. The ducks need Hemsky?
No one has actually reported a rumor.

I wasn't saying the Ducks need Hemsky, but they'd be in a position to further improve a strength the team already has. When teams are trying to compete for a Cup, that's something they often do.

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11-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Yakupov can either be a great player or an average player it's all on him. A willingness to do the things the coach asks and to adjust will help him reach his potential. Being a malcontent won't do anything for him except let him go home to Russia and make big money.

What I've seen of Yakupov and his character he is more of an Ovechkin than a Radulov. What I mean there is he seems to relish the spotlight and the idea of being a big star in the NHL still appeals to him whereas Radulov didn't care he wanted to make money and was happier doing that in Russia than NA.

I would definitely take the gamble with Yakupov, see what a change of scenery does for his attitude. He may not like Edmonton, he may feel like he's taking a back seat to Hall, Eberle, and RNH.

He needs to play a complete game, maybe our coaching staff and younger forwards can convince him it's best for his career.
Great post.

Yakupov would flourish here on the MSG/NYC stage. He relishes that. Think of where he is now...

****ING EDMONTON ALBERTA.

He needs a change, and this is the place where he can be electric. Think of the Garden when this kid starts sniping and lighting the lamp and he pulls those cellys out? It'll be crazy. In a GOOD way.

GET IT DONE SLATS.

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11-05-2013, 10:08 AM
  #307
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For all this talk, neither Brooks nor Willis have said the Rangers are interested in Yakupov. They just outlined why a trade may make sense.

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11-05-2013, 10:08 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
I'm not doubting they need goaltending, but there is a lot of smoke for there not to be fire with all the reporting going on, with even the Edmonton paper reporting it now. No mention of the Ducks. They were there to see the Rangers play. Messier has been involved in the Rangers organization for the past few years, and has intimate knowledge of players. It's beyond reasonable to see that as them getting advice. The ducks need Hemsky?
The Edmonton paper is using the Brooks article as their source. That Wilis guy is a blogger.

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11-05-2013, 10:10 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
No, but with Brooks reporting and then Dreger mentioning something, it's more than reasonable to believe that they were there to see the Rangers' players.

Again, Messier has an intimate knowledge of the Rangers players. They aren't asking his advice on the Duck's goaltender, who they have plenty of opportunities to see live. Ducks are looking for Defense. Who is Edmonton trading to the Ducks for their goaltenders?
I'm not saying they weren't scounting us (I'm sure they were looking at both teams), but you don't seriously think they hired Mess to scout the NYR and ONLY the NYR?

I'm sure he'd have something to say about every team, any player, etc.

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11-05-2013, 10:10 AM
  #310
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I hate the idea of Torts vs AV players. Every team in the league needs aspects of skill and grit to have success in today's NHL especially in the postseason. Also I just frankly dont understand the argument that the Rangers are a "team of solid 2 way players". We have a team that is lacking offensively. That doesn't mean we are overflowing with players who compete at both ends to the point where we should be turning them away. Really you've got Callahan, Hagelin, maybe Stepan who are arguably good at both ends. Miller has the potential to be.

Not that you need 3 full lines of those types. But compared to teams like the Blues, Kings, etc the Rangers don't have the same depth. Not too surprising since they are the most difficult players to acquire. You can find a Semin, a Gaborik in FA. You can't find a Kesler, a Backes, etc. Teams don't let them go.

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11-05-2013, 10:10 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
You wouldn't have taken Kovalchuk from 20-30 years old? I would have...
Thirty out of thirty teams would have, yes. However while 90% of this board was trying to justify trading for, and signing for Kovalchuk when he left Atlanta, I can say with complete certainty that 100% of this board would now say that would have been a terrible idea. Thankfully New Jersey made that uncharacteristically bad mistake. Having the benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing. Something we don't have regarding Yakupov. The Rangers could get ten years of Kovalchuk, or a couple of years of Filatov, Zherdev and Burmistrov. It's a gamble and gambling is rarely to the benefit of the gambler.

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11-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #312
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Edmonton wants Girardi? Is he re-signing in Edmonton? He is from Ontario and so is his wife. Hemsky has 3 goals and 6 points in 15 games. He is definitely the answer. He will go down with some injury soon and miss most of the season.

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11-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
I'm not saying they weren't scounting us (I'm sure they were looking at both teams), but you don't seriously think they hired Mess to scout the NYR and ONLY the NYR?

I'm sure he'd have something to say about every team, any player, etc.
Mess doesn't even work for them so they didn't hire him for anything.

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11-05-2013, 10:16 AM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Thirty out of thirty teams would have, yes. However while 90% of this board was trying to justify trading for, and signing for Kovalchuk when he left Atlanta, I can say with complete certainty that 100% of this board would now say that would have been a terrible idea. Thankfully New Jersey made that uncharacteristically bad mistake. Having the benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing. Something we don't have regarding Yakupov. The Rangers could get ten years of Kovalchuk, or a couple of years of Filatov, Zherdev and Burmistrov. It's a gamble and gambling is rarely to the benefit of the gambler.
Trading for Kovalchuk at 27 or 28 and 20 years old are totally different things

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11-05-2013, 10:19 AM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Great post.

Yakupov would flourish here on the MSG/NYC stage. He relishes that. Think of where he is now...

****ING EDMONTON ALBERTA.

He needs a change, and this is the place where he can be electric. Think of the Garden when this kid starts sniping and lighting the lamp and he pulls those cellys out? It'll be crazy. In a GOOD way.

GET IT DONE SLATS.
I don't usually get too caught up in the location of a team hindering it's performance or ability to make players happy. Edmonton has a rich hockey history, and I can see lots of players enjoying it. What I think the key to this situation is, is the fact that Hall, Eberle, and RNH are all Canadian boys who the fans absolutely love. So naturally if the team struggles it's always going to be Yak who sees his name in articles or trade rumors.

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Old
11-05-2013, 10:24 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Too difficult? The guy scored A TON. I think the comparisons are pretty close actually.
He scored a ton on a perennial loser with no expectations and no accountability. In Atlanta, he could go out there get his 50 goals, and worry about little else. When he came to the Devils, the culture is a bit different there. His #'s took a hit, he was asked to play a more complete game, and he bolted the first chance he got.

But thats not why I think the comparison is flawed. I think its flawed because Kovalchuk is much bigger/stronger than Yakupov.

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11-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  #317
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While I like the idea of trading for Yakupov in theory, I will be very, very, hesitant to include Miller in the package that goes back. There are certainly going to be questions about our center depth next year after The Rangers buy out Richards. The Rangers will NEED Miller there to step into a third line center role, or perhaps even a bigger role if someone goes down with an injury.

Stepan-Bassard-Miller-Boyle

I'm not entirely sure who the FA center are: Stastny?Roy? Ott?

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11-05-2013, 10:26 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I hate the idea of Torts vs AV players. every team in the league needs aspects of skill and grit to have success in today's NHL especially in the postseason. also I just frankly dont understand the argument that the Rangers are a "team of solid 2 way players". We have a team that is lacking offensively. That doesn't mean we are overflowing with players who compete at both ends to the point where we should be turning them away.

Not that you need 3 lines of those types. But compared to teams like the Blues, Kings, etc the Rangers don't have the same depth. Not too surprising since they are the most difficult players to acquire. You can find a Semin, a Gaborik in FA. You can find a Kesler, a Backes, etc. teams don't let them go.
I see this argument a lot. The only solid two-way players on this team are Callahan, Stepan, and Hagelin. Then there's Boyle whose good defensively but doesn't contribute too much offensively. There are lots of one dimensional players on this team - Brassard, Richards, Pouliot, etc.

Versatility is key in today's league, as you alluded to. That's not to say that talent is less important. But if these talented forwards can't score or put up points on a consistent basis like Stamkos or Ovechkin, then they need to bring something else to the table that makes them effective when they aren't scoring.

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11-05-2013, 10:28 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Trading for Kovalchuk at 27 or 28 and 20 years old are totally different things
Yeah it is, 28 year old Kovalchuk is an established elite winger in his prime. I'd take him over a 20 year old question mark anyday, KHL nonsense withstanding. Again, you cannot use hindsight to justify this move because no one knew Kovalchuk would be what he is now when he was 20.

What would you rather have playing on the current roster right now, a healthy, in his prime Rick Nash, or Nail Questionmark? If you say Yakupov you are either lying or dense.

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11-05-2013, 10:29 AM
  #320
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I don't usually get too caught up in the location of a team hindering it's performance or ability to make players happy. Edmonton has a rich hockey history, and I can see lots of players enjoying it. What I think the key to this situation is, is the fact that Hall, Eberle, and RNH are all Canadian boys who the fans absolutely love. So naturally if the team struggles it's always going to be Yak who sees his name in articles or trade rumors.
None of those players *****ing the moment they were being coached at the NHL level separates them from Yakupov too.

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11-05-2013, 10:31 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Yeah it is, 28 year old Kovalchuk is an established elite winger in his prime. I'd take him over a 20 year old question mark anyday, KHL nonsense withstanding. Again, you cannot use hindsight to justify this move because no one knew Kovalchuk would be what he is now when he was 20.

What would you rather have playing on the current roster right now, a healthy, in his prime Rick Nash, or Nail Questionmark? If you say Yakupov you are either lying or dense.
The entire league knew Kovalchuk was going to be a supreme goal scoring talent when he was 18. You have to use prior experiences to make current decisions. That's how learning works.

How about Rick Nash @ 20 so that he could grow with THIS team.

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11-05-2013, 10:33 AM
  #322
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Kreider and MDZ for Yakupov

Get it done Slats.

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11-05-2013, 10:34 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
The entire league knew Kovalchuk was going to be a supreme goal scoring talent when he was 18. You have to use prior experiences to make current decisions. That's how learning works.

How about Rick Nash @ 20 so that he could grow with THIS team.
I think Yakupov is somewhere in between, but if I was a betting man, I'd say his career arc looks more like Zherdev than Kovalchuk.

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11-05-2013, 10:35 AM
  #324
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
The entire league knew Kovalchuk was going to be a supreme goal scoring talent when he was 18. You have to use prior experiences to make current decisions. That's how learning works.

How about Rick Nash @ 20 so that he could grow with THIS team.
No, the entire league thought that about Kovalchuk. They didn't know it. Just like no one knows what Nail Yakupov will do or become, despite what they may think he will.

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11-05-2013, 10:36 AM
  #325
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I think Yakupov is somewhere in between, but if I was a betting man, I'd say his career arc looks more like Zherdev than Kovalchuk.
I respectfully disagree.

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