HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Let's face the truth, this is not a good team.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-06-2013, 08:57 AM
  #51
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Not the opposite but maybe the thread doesn't get created.

That doesn't mean the issues discussed are not legitimate. The team has been soft for two decades!

There was a time when this team was like the Blues. If the skilled guys had an off night, we could still cycle the puck low and crash and bang and grind our way to a victory.

Very envious of the Blues. They remind me of the Habs in the 80's and early 90's. So many ways they can beat you. Our depth used to be guys like McPhee, Keane, Skrudland, etc.

Now, it's St-Pierre.
It's been so long ago I don't even remember what it was like to see a big, physical habs team outhit, outmatch and outgrind a physical team. I too am envious of St. Louis. Solid team from top to bottom.

hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 08:57 AM
  #52
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
It's actually pretty shocking how much of the Habs' problems can be laid at the feet of too much Murray/Parros and not enough Subban. The difference in observed performance is that big.

It also shouldn't escape notice that the worst players on the Habs are two of the GM's three off-season acquisitions. Hopefully the inexperienced GM is taking notes and learning from his mistakes.
This observation nails it. Without Moen and Prust, we've been missing a credible 4th-line and -- what a surprise! -- the scrub-subs have been responsible for allowing key goals (or like last night, disallowing a goal for us) that have lost us games. It's not Parros's fault for being Parros and it's not Leblanc, Blunden or Holland's fault for being inexperienced -- it's that we're missing true NHL shutdown forwards that are so important to our system.

As to the chronic defensive screwups that seem to happen every game, it's usually Murray or Bouillon who are behind them. Or, earlier, it was because of a rookie mistake from Beaulieu or Tinordi.

The other issue from last night was Galchenyuk experimenting at center. He lost every friggin faceoff, but it was a necessary baptism by fire. Habs sacrificed puck-possession to give the kid some experience.

Luckily (yes, time for optimism!) these problems will diminish with a bit more time. Here's what'll happen:

- Moen & Prust return, giving us back a solid 4th-line presence that adds some scoring and reduces turnovers.

- Holland and Leblanc gain experience. Solid 4th line depth, maybe a bit more.

- Bournival continues to be our rookie of the year. Fast, relentless, with a fast release on his shot. What a find!

- Galchenyuk wins a faceoff, Habs start easing him into C.

- Emelin comes back and finds his groove by Christmas.

- Tinordi and Beaulieu rejoin the lineup throughout the season, having gained some knowledge and confidence.

Lshap is online now  
Old
11-06-2013, 08:59 AM
  #53
DenverHabsFan
Registered User
 
DenverHabsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
Country: United States
Posts: 1,329
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The Habs have been a bubble team for years...some years they just overachieved and that tricked the fans into thinking the team is better than it really is. The players keep changing but the results are the same.

We have the franchise goalie, we have the Franchise D man and a bunch of unknowns. Need the right GM and coach to build the team. Unfortunately I don't think we have the right GM or coach.
Sadly agree.

Burke doesn't get enough credit for the way he's turned around franchises. He's taken some mediocre teams and turned them quickly into nasty, tough to play against teams.

Just don't know if MB has it in him.

DenverHabsFan is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:04 AM
  #54
sventington
Registered User
 
sventington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 964
vCash: 50
I'm not worried yet. I'm not a blind optimist, but I haven't walked away from too many games thinking we were in desperate trouble. Let's see how the next 20 games go.

sventington is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:07 AM
  #55
Canadian_Brewtality
Registered User
 
Canadian_Brewtality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,812
vCash: 500
this board is so funny

Its an average team, getting better. Bergevin has been here less than 1 full season and people think he sucks already. Therrien hasnt coached a full season, fire him!

I actually think our team is in good shape going fowrward. Gonna go through growing pains, but guys like Price, Subban, Gally, Gallagher, Patch, Bournival, Eller, thats a nice core. Just need a few more good drafts and were in the money.

I dont know what people expected this year. We are in every game, we compete, but the results havent been there in the last few games.

Take a breather

Canadian_Brewtality is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:09 AM
  #56
Habsfannick
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Habsfannick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 2,393
vCash: 500
The management and coaching of this team is horrendous, I was happy having Bouillion last year but he shouldn't have been resigned. Murray should have never been signed and we let Tinordi, Beaulieu maybe even Pateryn get some NHL time. They couldn't possibly be any worse than Murray and Bouillion have been. The same logic can apply to forwards, why sign briere when you have young guys that you could give a chance to? I'd rather see Leblanc here again than see Briere or DD suck some more.

All of that aside we have the atrocious usage of the kids and PK, the ridiculous contracts and the lack of ability to notice what all of us have seen that this is mediocre team.

Montreal is tired of being a bubble playoff team, tired of struggling to win one game let alone one series. It's not a lie it's fact since 93 we have made the playoffs 12 out of 19 seasons but only won 6 series! It's time to move out the old and focus on our core, move some vets with value and get good returns, maybe another early draft pick, clear the close to $14M we have in useless scrubs like DD, Moen, Diaz ect!! We can suffer 2-3 years of sucking/mediocrity if it means were improving, but not another 20 cause MT is a moron and MB seems to have no balls.

Habsfannick is online now  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:11 AM
  #57
LePoche69
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,517
vCash: 500
I can't understand the logic behind playing Subban less minutes because he makes mistakes, but keep playing Parros who cost the team some actual goals.

Yeah, I don't think that team is that good. And we shouldn't blame the injuries. Emelin is good, but he will never be a top 2 d-man with an impact on victories-defeats every night. Prust is very useful but still a bottom 6 player unable to score more than 5-7 goals a year. Moen is now a good 4th liner, nothing more. And Brière was an absolute non-factor when he was playing. So those injuries, while important, are not enough to justify the poor play we're seeing right now.

I was at the game yesterday, and I was amazed at how little the players move their feet when they're not in possession of the puck. When a hab d-man has the puck, all the others wait for a pass at fixed positions, without moving their feet. It's so easy for the opposite team to read the play, it's not even funny. And when a pass does reach a player, since he's not moving, the defenders have all the time in the world to position themselves. If it is not Subban or Markov who are able to move their bodies while doing a pass, the play dies instantly.

LePoche69 is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:18 AM
  #58
We Want The 25
Go Habs Go
 
We Want The 25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,178
vCash: 500
we played a lot of games against western conference teams lately. last year we didn't play any of them so I think that's a big reason to the recent struggles. next 14 out 15 games are against eastern conference teams so we should have a better idea of what this team will be like this season after that span

We Want The 25 is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:23 AM
  #59
malton
Registered User
 
malton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 597
vCash: 500
We're far from a bad team, but we are nowhere near cup contenders.

malton is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:28 AM
  #60
Uber Coca
Registered User
 
Uber Coca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,137
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
this board is so funny

Its an average team, getting better. Bergevin has been here less than 1 full season and people think he sucks already. Therrien hasnt coached a full season, fire him!

I actually think our team is in good shape going fowrward. Gonna go through growing pains, but guys like Price, Subban, Gally, Gallagher, Patch, Bournival, Eller, thats a nice core. Just need a few more good drafts and were in the money.

I dont know what people expected this year. We are in every game, we compete, but the results havent been there in the last few games.

Take a breather
I agree with this guy.

Besides, the +9 ratio indicates that this team is competing. It is far from perfect in terms of results but again this team is far from perfect. I think I got this ''Been there, done that'' attitude since I've been following the team for quite some time, but I'm positive this is one of the best Montreal teams on paper since the last two decades.

The Blues and the Sharks are the best of the league, let's just not pretend that the Canadiens are at this level.

Uber Coca is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:29 AM
  #61
optimus2861
Registered User
 
optimus2861's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bedford NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,641
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by malton View Post
We're far from a bad team, but we are nowhere near cup contenders.
This. We are hopefully-improving mediocre team that is currently being poorly coached. I didn't expect anything more than bubble-team status this year so I'm not overly surprised.

The one real point of possible alarm is Therrien's confounding use of & attitude towards Subban. If this organization screws up Subban now, or worst-case drives him away, we'll suck for another decade at minimum.

optimus2861 is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:36 AM
  #62
lou4gehrig
Registered User
 
lou4gehrig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,585
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
First? " good team" it seems you think a good team wins ever game and everybody else is a bad team?
Second, the Habs have been in EVERY game. Last night the Habs had to game in hand if it was not for a freak stop by Halak. Halak moved to his left leaving the entire right hand side open with the butt of his stick left behind. SO what happens? yep the puck finds the only place it could not to score. WOW, and remember it is NOT that Halak moved the stick to stop the puck, Halak was frozen. PURE LUCK PURE LUCK and some of those 1 goal losses by the Habs were also helped by PURE LUCK. Now do the Habs need a few changes, sure, is MB moving the team in the right direction? sure, Is it still going to take 2-3 years to be a NHL overall Dominant team.
Hahaha. Live in reality man. Our team is average. Our young players have potential but give them time. Our vets are decent but nothing special. All of that means mediocrity.

lou4gehrig is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:37 AM
  #63
lostriver
Registered User
 
lostriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Our Lady of Grace
Country: Canada
Posts: 846
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
Its an average team, getting better. Bergevin has been here less than 1 full season and people think he sucks already. Therrien hasnt coached a full season, fire him!
I think the problem is that fans have been told exact same story for the last 20 years and none of those "average teams" got better so far.

lostriver is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:39 AM
  #64
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
The Habs have been a bubble team for years...some years they just overachieved and that tricked the fans into thinking the team is better than it really is. The players keep changing but the results are the same.

We have the franchise goalie, we have the Franchise D man and a bunch of unknowns. Need the right GM and coach to build the team. Unfortunately I don't think we have the right GM or coach.
There's no 'trick' about success. Habs are exactly where the standings say they are, like every other team. San Jose has never made the SCF and St-Louis hasn't come close to that in ages -- does that make them overachievers now, based on their history of limited results? No, they are legitimately strong teams right now.

Everyone's gushing over Colorado and their new coach. That was Montreal last season -- a stronger, younger team with lots of potential. Rankings change from season to season -- that's not a trick, that's how it works.

You and many others have been 'tricked' into believing you can see the future based on the past. Habs have been a bubble team, so that means they'll continue to be a bubble team. Untrue. When a team has so many rookies and developing young players, plus an incoming crop of very good prospects, it will become a completely different team than the outdated image of the Habs from the last decade. None of us have any idea what this team can become. Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Bournival, Tinordi, Beaulieu and Holland never played a single NHL game before 2013, but all of them are looking like superior talent in their roles. There is no destiny of mediocrity hanging over the Habs, it's all up in air and up to the young guys who have been the team's strongest players. This is good news because those young guys are our future. Chill out, enjoy watching them. They may bust, but they may also become the Habs that finished 2nd in the EC last season.

Lshap is online now  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:43 AM
  #65
Brainiac
Registered User
 
Brainiac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,118
vCash: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
What moronic coach plays the 4th line that is proven to be almost an auto-goal against defending a 1 goal lead at home past 10 min mark in 3rd...oh right the same one that uses Boullion late 3rd to protect lead/lose point and couldn't find a way to blame Subban for last night's loss.
Well then, maybe, maybe, our 4th line is not worth much.

I know many around here have man-crushes for White and Parros, but let's face it, it's essentially a power play for the other team when our 4th line is on the ice.

Brainiac is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:45 AM
  #66
missthenet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 368
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Team may not be great and we're facing tougher teams now but it should be better than it is.

Play Subban 30 mins a night instead of 20 and leave him be. The team will be a lot better. It's a very easy quick fix and for the life of me I can't figure out why our coach can't see this.

Subban starts the year strong and suddenly our coach decides to bench him. He should write a book: How To Get The Least Out Of Your Players - By Michel Therrien.

I mean seriously wtf is the matter with this guy. It's ****ing common sense.

Wow. We agree. And if we agree then I don't understand how MT can't see this...
he did write a book and it was in Pittsburgh, get rid ofmthis goof before its to late with Subban, Gallagher, and the rest of the young guys. Could not agree more with his use of Subban andhis love affair with Bouillion and Murray. Also why a fourth line plug is out on a power play with 6 minutes left makes me wonder what he is thinking. Wonder what MB thinks about all these strange moves?

missthenet is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:47 AM
  #67
Lshap
Moderator
 
Lshap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,505
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostriver View Post
I think the problem is that fans have been told exact same story for the last 20 years and none of those "average teams" got better so far.
The Habs of 2013/14 have nothing in common with the Habs of the last 20 years, except for the jersey and overly-dramatic fans.

Lshap is online now  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:48 AM
  #68
Bask
Embellishing User
 
Bask's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Montréal
Posts: 3,470
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
this board is so funny

Its an average team, getting better. Bergevin has been here less than 1 full season and people think he sucks already. Therrien hasnt coached a full season, fire him!

I actually think our team is in good shape going fowrward. Gonna go through growing pains, but guys like Price, Subban, Gally, Gallagher, Patch, Bournival, Eller, thats a nice core. Just need a few more good drafts and were in the money.

I dont know what people expected this year. We are in every game, we compete, but the results havent been there in the last few games.

Take a breather
i'm with this guy

Bask is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:53 AM
  #69
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
You guys can see it? This team is small, lacking depth and more fockus on blocking shots. No forward with talent can trow decent check(well almost) and they all play with one hand on their sticks...what is this 5 dman squat?
There no denying that this team has guts but no way management can say this team is hard to play vs. I'm getting so tired at looking at the other team circling in our zone with our player trying to only poke check the puck or getting in the shooting lane. Our Dman are trying the bomb passes all the time and its taking all our speed in the neutral zone. They are always one step awaay from the puck and can't make an accurate chip to the forward with speed...to short but mostly always way to long. Spending 2 minute in ot in your zone controlling the puck is not gonna win you many games, they couldn't even past the blue line...wow. Now our best Daman is in a fluke, our young guns are cold and our vets are just to busy pleasing the coach.
After tonight if I'm the GM, I'm worried. It's not the losses that worries me but the way we did lose. No excuses with the injuries has I can remember the Pens winning without there top player, same with Colorado in the early days.

PS:With a small team, we go out and signed Briere? Ok fine but why keep Gionta, DD, Bouillon and get AHL vet like St-Pierre? Ok with Parros but he's a 13th forward at best.
I don't see how going 8-7-1 so far with key players out makes the Habs a bad team. They have had ups and downs but played some games with as many as 5 regular forwards out.

Even if they had not missed any time with injuries, it's just 20% of the schedule, if you go back to this point last year I'm sure some teams that made the playoffs had starts a lot worse.

With a healthy lineup, the Habs definitely don't have a small team. They aren't the biggest but "big" is not what it's about as Chicago shows and many other cup winners.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:57 AM
  #70
Devourers
Registered User
 
Devourers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 583
vCash: 500
Holy reactionary thread, batman.

We aren't a top tier team but far from mediocre.

Devourers is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 09:58 AM
  #71
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,411
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I can't understand the logic behind playing Subban less minutes because he makes mistakes, but keep playing Parros who cost the team some actual goals.
Parros cost the team what, one goal...wow, let's waive him!

Cut the guy some slack, he's coming back from a concussion and facing some top/hot teams. Normally he wouldn't play every night, but with 4-5 guys out up front he plays each game.

If Parros is playing with Bournival/Prust and Moen then it helps him a lot more than White and St.Pierre/Blunden.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:02 AM
  #72
Captain Saku
Registered User
 
Captain Saku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal
Posts: 10,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
this board is so funny

Its an average team, getting better. Bergevin has been here less than 1 full season and people think he sucks already. Therrien hasnt coached a full season, fire him!

I actually think our team is in good shape going fowrward. Gonna go through growing pains, but guys like Price, Subban, Gally, Gallagher, Patch, Bournival, Eller, thats a nice core. Just need a few more good drafts and were in the money.

I dont know what people expected this year. We are in every game, we compete, but the results havent been there in the last few games.

Take a breather
Even though I criticed Bergevin's decisions a lot, I'm very positive thay he'll turn it around and learn from his mistakes, he's a level headed person.

MT on the other hand, I have no faith in him at all. There is absolutely no indication so far that he's a coach who can take this team far.

Captain Saku is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:21 AM
  #73
JLP
La Sainte-Flanelle
 
JLP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,289
vCash: 500
Agree with many we're middle of the pack, but could be on the rise we have a top young G in Price, a top young D in Subban and a top young F in Galchenyuk and some interesting pieces to go with them.

But considering Montréal's situation (expectations, media, politics), I'd imagine there's something of a fortress mentality in the Habs' organization that actually enables a weird duo like MB&MT and their stubborn mindsets and odd decisions. If this team were based elsewhere we'd probably perform better.

JLP is online now  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:25 AM
  #74
Sorinth
Registered User
 
Sorinth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,444
vCash: 500
We may not be contenders but were not a bad team. We've played 75% of our games against the West who happen to be 66-26-10 against Eastern teams. Our record vs the East is 3-1 (same ratio as Pittsburgh), we'd be looking much better had we played a more balanced East/West schedule.

But the biggest reason we are struggling is we are shooting ourselves in the foot with bad coaching decisions. The fact that we also have a bunch of injuries just compounds that, since those AHL-level players should be sheltered and your stars should play more to cover for them. We've decided to do the opposite, give those callups lots of ice time at the expense of our top players.

Sorinth is offline  
Old
11-06-2013, 10:36 AM
  #75
Noob616
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,378
vCash: 500
The sad part is that we are a pretty good team, IMO top 10 in the league. We're just being so horribly mismanaged that our roster isn't allowed to shine through. Don't want to flog a dead horse here but 20 minutes TOI for Subban is just logically indefensible, as is the man crush on Parros, Murray, and Bouillion. It's infuriating that we're just so pathetically out managed every game.

Noob616 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.