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Bob McKenzie: Link Between Subban's Usage and Contract Negotiations (UPDATE OP)?

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11-06-2013, 01:28 PM
  #726
ValorJames
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
Well I have been watching PK and I still see peewee level mistakes. They aren't high risk reward plays, they are dumb plays. Period. Things that as a Dman get trained out of you at a young age. Probably didn't happen to PK because his skating is so high that he would recover at junior levels playing against crappy opposition.
I was a small player but I skated well and had to use my head a lot more than my body, so when I see some of the plays that PK does I shake my head saying "if only his hockey IQ was like markovs, he would be bobby orr" instead he reminds me more of Mike Green. Anyone that thinks PKs d zone is "far and above" Karlsson isn't watching much hockey. At best PK is more physical, but he certainly isn't making better D zone plays.
The hab rose coloured classes are pretty pathetic around here. Same issue as with price. Look at how much better price is this year with the change in style. I wasn't too fond of his play but he has been great. The same could happen if PK improves his d zone actions. I don't want Paul Cofffey on this team, I want Ray Bourque.
Great read with a lot of truth. PK did not win the Norris because of his defence. People do not remember how bad he looks when he gets pressure....I love watching his offence game but I am all for it for him to keep learning his D-zone play.

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Old
11-06-2013, 01:29 PM
  #727
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Great read with a lot of truth. PK did not win the Norris because of his defence. People do not remember how bad he looks when he gets pressure....I love watching his offence game but I am all for it for him to keep learning his D-zone play.
Subban is one of the best defensemen in the league in his own zone. The eye test and stats back it up.

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11-06-2013, 01:30 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
Same here. M.T might have a strict rule about not having long shifts. Penalized no matter what.

I don't have stats from other games to back up that claim. But it's very M.T.
I'd say you'd have a point if Subban's icetime wasn't already reduced before his 1st 2 minute shift in the 2nd period. He only played 5 minutes in the 1st period. If anything he got more shifts in the 2nd and 3rd periods after the 2min shift.

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11-06-2013, 01:32 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post

What is sad to me about this whole affair is that, when you watch all the behind the scenes stuff like 24 CH, and you look at some of the moves that management has made over the past few years (sending Gionta home to be with his son, bringing fathers on the most recent road trip) you really get the sense that Bergevin has been trying to implement a family-type atmosphere into the team's culture. For some reason, the Habs seem to be doing a poor job of applying that same concept to their best player, and it seems to be leading them towards an unworkable situation.
So because the Habs want a family type atmosphere it has to be all about PK and how he can look good so he can be sure to make the Olympic team? You're contradicting yourself. How would it lead them to an unworkable situation? You can see on 24 CH that when he makes a mistake they bring him in, show him the video and tell him what should have been done.

PK has improved a lot but he still relies on individual skill too much in certain instances where just making the simple play works better. He's come a long long way the last 3-4 years but still has room to improve.

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11-06-2013, 01:33 PM
  #730
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Subban is one of the best defensemen in the league in his own zone. The eye test and stats back it up.
Yea but our coach thinks he's bad defensively. He thinks he's so bad that he'd rather have Boullion on his off side playing key minutes to replace him. Boullion > Subban defensively because Therrien thinks so.

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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
So because the Habs want a family type atmosphere it has to be all about PK and how he can look good so he can be sure to make the Olympic team? You're contradicting yourself. How would it lead them to an unworkable situation? You can see on 24 CH that when he makes a mistake they bring him in, show him the video and tell him what should have been done.

PK has improved a lot but he still relies on individual skill too much in certain instances where just making the simple play works better. He's come a long long way the last 3-4 years but still has room to improve.

Would be nice if Subban can be part of that family instead of the adopted problem child no one cares about/given different treatment compared to everyone else in the 'family'. PK regressed defensively under this management and it seems he's pretty much back to where he was 3-4 years ago...if not worse.

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11-06-2013, 01:33 PM
  #731
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I don't believe it either.

But PK may believe it. And it's possible his agent leaked this.
What makes you think so low of PK that he would resort to that level of tactics? I have massive respect for PK and I don't ever see him doing that. PK oozes character. He handled his hold out better and more respectably than any player I can recall in the last 5-10 years.

When you have that much CHARACTER, you don't just lose it. So explain why do you think that lowly of PK?

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11-06-2013, 01:33 PM
  #732
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Great read with a lot of truth. PK did not win the Norris because of his defence. People do not remember how bad he looks when he gets pressure....I love watching his offence game but I am all for it for him to keep learning his D-zone play.
Aaaaaand you're listening to all the BS that the media likes to advertise. You've bought into their crap.

As Overlords has said, he passes both the eye test and advanced statistics test. Watch him play - he exceeds on BOTH ends of the ice. I've seen him make so many little plays in the d-zone often ending in a rush towards the opposition's net. He's great at making the fancy plays, but also the simple ones. The only real issue in my books is that he tries to do the fancy one a little too often, but that is a fairly easy fix. Just because he scores lots of points, does not mean he's not good defensively.

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11-06-2013, 01:34 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I'd say you'd have a point if Subban's icetime wasn't already reduced before his 1st 2 minute shift in the 2nd period. He only played 5 minutes in the 1st period. If anything he got more shifts in the 2nd and 3rd periods after the 2min shift.
MT rarely ever plays PK on the PK. If I recall, we were on the PK alot during the first correct?

I could assume he was given a warning after the first one. If did it again, he would get benched. Did it again in the 3rd... got benched.

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11-06-2013, 01:36 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Quagmier View Post
That is absolute garbage.

Mackenzie is one of the most respected and level headed journalists in the sport and I cannot think of a single instance where his reputation or integrity have ever been questioned (other than when Kadri called him Bobo). He is commenting on it because it is a story and he has heard opinions from some of his sources that he felt were worth sharing. The fact that he clarified his comments by stating that he didn't share his own opinion re-inforces that notion.

Journalists deserve the same scrutiny as everyone else, but when you demean those in the profession who have actually gone above and beyond the call of duty regarding journalistic integrity, you are bringing very, very little to the discussion.
Nope, you're not looking deep enough.

He's still jumping into this PK Subban media vortex of stupidity, but in a sort of a high road way that adds a veneer of respectability to his piece. Still just one more fly buzzing around the same pile of **** though. Not impressed, and you shouldn't be either. I would be impressed by his "integrity" if he ignored it and talked about something else. Leave this crap to the Tony Marinara and Ted Birdbrains of the world.

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11-06-2013, 01:39 PM
  #735
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=435984

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Old
11-06-2013, 01:42 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
Frontpage on tsn.ca.

*sigh* The media...PK seems to be a lightning rod.

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Old
11-06-2013, 01:42 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If that was the case they would have cut his PP time not PK time. PK will get paid more for putting up numbers than for killing penalities.

What did MB do with Bouillon that was "drunken"? He sigfned him to a 1 year deal at half the league average. Bouillon has been a solid asset the last 2 years, a bargain for what he cost in assets and cap space. The perfect guy to have with young guys breaking in.

Desharnais it looks bad now, but DD could have gone to arbitration and gotten around 4-4.25 mil based on his numbers last summer then been a UFA on July 1st 2014. If he gets back on track and plays the way he can it's a good deal.
It is dirty pool if what BM is suggesting is true. The Habs are not playing PK in good faith if his contractual situation has any bearing on his playing time - at all.

MB has been erratic in his contract management. On the one hand he locks up a young one dimensional player with a mulit-year contract above his market value - while on the other he does not. In another example, he buys a UFA year for one of our d-men (where he could probably have fond a better/bigger player) and in another he does not.

I see too many question marks and inconsistencies to share any optimism and this is a franchise whose superiority complex has cost us superstars in the past (Chelios, Roy).

We need to focus on winning hockey games and putting the best roster on the ice or we will continue to be what we've been since 1993...


Last edited by Boris Le Tigre: 11-06-2013 at 01:49 PM.
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11-06-2013, 01:47 PM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Gary320 View Post
MT rarely ever plays PK on the PK. If I recall, we were on the PK alot during the first correct?

I could assume he was given a warning after the first one. If did it again, he would get benched. Did it again in the 3rd... got benched.
His 5 ES minutes was still only above Boullion and Murray / same as Diaz. He was already 3rd/4th D at ES in 1st period even with all the PKs. This would mean the other D would be much more tired and his ES min should be higher as a D that didn't do anything in the minutes. This shows he was already benched before the 2min shifts.

Again that would make sense if he wasn't benched every game in the 3rd of games that the Habs weren't losing late.

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11-06-2013, 01:49 PM
  #739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Frontpage on tsn.ca.

*sigh* The media...PK seems to be a lightning rod.
They love it. Yesterday's headline was Deshar-nay. They absolutely love reporting any negativity about Montreal.

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11-06-2013, 01:50 PM
  #740
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You know with contract talks coming up I actually wouldn't be too surprised if they're throwing him under the bus to deflate his value. Just look at the greatest defenceman of all time AKA Karlson, I see him making many of the same mistakes that PK does.

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Old
11-06-2013, 01:57 PM
  #741
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lol is this true: Karlsson sur Subban: je ne peux pas détester quelqu'un qui est meilleur que moi..." WOW!!!

translate: Karlsson on Subban: "I can't hate someone who's better than me".

its coming from enrico ciccone a Hockey Analyst for TVA Sports

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11-06-2013, 01:57 PM
  #742
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I hate terrien with all his "process" and "plan" BS, just play subban 25+ min you dumb ****.

freaking idiot is out coached every game

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11-06-2013, 01:58 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
FWIW, Subban played 1:22 of the PP. He was out before that though (drew the penalty). PP time is not usually very taxing, and I'm all for PK playing long shifts there.

Nobody seems to be taking the "easy excuse" road on him getting hurt by that or the shot block, though. I figured somebody would go down that weasel hole, whether it was truth or not.

I find it easier to just believe Therrien is a dolt than I do to believe the Habs would manage icetime based on contract negotiations, though.

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Old
11-06-2013, 02:00 PM
  #744
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Subban is one of the best defensemen in the league in his own zone. The eye test and stats back it up.
I guess I must have bad eyes

But that is okay because I watch the game with my mind not my heart

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11-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #745
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Subban alone is responsible for at least 3 wins. This is BS, let the kid play. He'll cost alot even if we don't play him alot (even tho I don't believe that BS)

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11-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by boynickname View Post
I guess I must have bad eyes

But that is okay because I watch the game with my mind not my heart
The first step is admitting you have a problem.

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11-06-2013, 02:07 PM
  #747
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Bob Mackenzie is hearing this from various sources. He wouldn't report it otherwise. He's about as credible a source as you can get.

And can you blame people for wondering about this? Again, it's the same with the racism charge... nobody understands WHY HE'S NOT PLAYING MORE. there's no reason for him not to be playing. So people are now speculating as to why.

That's what happens when you do something stupid. People try to understand the reasoning. Because there's no ****ing reason from a hockey perspective to bench the guy.

Just go away.


Again, you are missing the point. The Canadiens are misusing a star player. People can't figure out why.

Can you tell us? I mean seriously... is our coach just an absolute ****ing moron? Please explain why we would do this to a guy who got off to a torrid start? Why do we limit this guy's icetime and throw him under a bus?

And btw, is this approach working? Is he playing better now than he was before? I mean seriously man, wtf are these people ****ing thinking?
LG. again, remember that I am not a Therrien fan. My ifs comments were targeted at all the suppositions being thrown out by the media and people running with those and lending credence to them.

This season of Therrien is way different than last season. And not in our advantage.

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Old
11-06-2013, 02:07 PM
  #748
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I swear to christ

if we chase PK out of this town , im dropping this team like a bad girlfriend

**** it'll probably do me some good!

but if somehow PK is not a hab for the next 8 plus years, im done with this team

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Old
11-06-2013, 02:08 PM
  #749
ValorJames
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Originally Posted by CanadienShark View Post
Aaaaaand you're listening to all the BS that the media likes to advertise. You've bought into their crap.

As Overlords has said, he passes both the eye test and advanced statistics test. Watch him play - he exceeds on BOTH ends of the ice. I've seen him make so many little plays in the d-zone often ending in a rush towards the opposition's net. He's great at making the fancy plays, but also the simple ones. The only real issue in my books is that he tries to do the fancy one a little too often, but that is a fairly easy fix. Just because he scores lots of points, does not mean he's not good defensively.
Listen I do not think PK is horrible in his own zone but he is no Alexei Emelin. One D-man gift is offense and the other is defence. PK is still young and he can learn and I am sure he will be good in his own zone some day.....but at the moment he is just ok in the D-zone.

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11-06-2013, 02:10 PM
  #750
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**** tsn

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