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Rookie Financial Hazing

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11-04-2013, 08:52 AM
  #1
Felix Unger
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Rookie Financial Hazing

I'm curious. The whole Miami Dolphins Jonathan Martin/Richie Incognito thing seems to indicate two things about the NFL, anyway:

1. There was something personal, unusual there, and
2. There was something that is somehow, business as usual, namely, veterans financially exploiting rookies/younger players.

Considering NFL players don't have guaranteed contracts it seems really distasteful that vets would do this to rookies who don't even have any savings. It makes NFL players seem even more unlikable than I previously thought they were. I mean, if a guy is taking home 320,000 after taxes, a lot of which is inevitably used to buy his Mom a house, being forced to pay $15,000 for a Las Vegas trip is nothing to sneeze at. That's not to mention paying for lavish dinners, etc. They can run up their credit card, get injured, and then get cut. Unlike hockey, they don't even have guaranteed contracts.

Here's the question: does this go on in anywhere near the extent in the NHL? I mean, I get rookies carrying vet's equipment, dressing in drag once a year, etc. But anything near what's considered "normal" in the NFL? (Again, putting aside the seemingly extraordinary elements of the Dolphins story. IMO it's going to become clear very quickly that Richie Incognito is a textbook psychopath.)

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11-04-2013, 08:54 AM
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blitzkriegs
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Yes, rookies are oftentimes left with paying a rather large check at a 5 star restaurant for a team dinner. It's part of the culture of the sport. Don't worry, the players get meal allowances for travel...

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11-04-2013, 09:56 AM
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bigd
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Yes, rookies are oftentimes left with paying a rather large check at a 5 star restaurant for a team dinner. It's part of the culture of the sport. Don't worry, the players get meal allowances for travel...
It happens in the AHL also so they take a hit twice. But if they end up having a long career they get it back ten fold because every year after that you party on the new rookies tabs. It's not that big a deal. Most of these guys would just go blow that money on a sports car anyway. They aren't going to be visiting the local food bank anytime soon. I wouldn't feel sorry for them.

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11-04-2013, 10:01 AM
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blitzkriegs
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It happens in the AHL also so they take a hit twice. But if they end up having a long career they get it back ten fold because every year after that you party on the new rookies tabs. It's not that big a deal. Most of these guys would just go blow that money on a sports car anyway. They aren't going to be visiting the local food bank anytime soon. I wouldn't feel sorry for them.
Never mentioned or implied any sympathy, just sharing that this happens in the NHL too. Moreover, each player receives a travel allowance - much like any other person traveling for work. So, even when they go above and beyond, a portion is covered under the travel allowance.

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11-04-2013, 10:16 AM
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redbull
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I'm curious. The whole Miami Dolphins Jonathan Martin/Richie Incognito thing seems to indicate two things about the NFL, anyway:

1. There was something personal, unusual there, and
2. There was something that is somehow, business as usual, namely, veterans financially exploiting rookies/younger players.

Considering NFL players don't have guaranteed contracts it seems really distasteful that vets would do this to rookies who don't even have any savings. It makes NFL players seem even more unlikable than I previously thought they were. I mean, if a guy is taking home 320,000 after taxes, a lot of which is inevitably used to buy his Mom a house, being forced to pay $15,000 for a Las Vegas trip is nothing to sneeze at. That's not to mention paying for lavish dinners, etc. They can run up their credit card, get injured, and then get cut. Unlike hockey, they don't even have guaranteed contracts.

Here's the question: does this go on in anywhere near the extent in the NHL? I mean, I get rookies carrying vet's equipment, dressing in drag once a year, etc. But anything near what's considered "normal" in the NFL? (Again, putting aside the seemingly extraordinary elements of the Dolphins story. IMO it's going to become clear very quickly that Richie Incognito is a textbook psychopath.)
The rookie dinners in the NHL are spoken of, rarely in a negative way though. I think it makes for some great stories and bonding.

On the fan590 (or possibly TSN radio, I forget) the other day, Jeff O'Neill was talking about an incident when he was with Carolina and one of the players ordered 10 bottles of some exotic champagne/wine, with instructions to have them delivered to his house - and left dinner altogether. O'Neill said that he (and I believe captain Ron Francis) asked about the charges and made the player pay for those out of his own pocket.

O'Neill seemed upset about it because he felt that was crossing the line of a tradition/hazing/bonding to something that's selfish and rude.

Side story: I heard that Ryan Reynolds sending the Bruins a round of drinks after the VAN-BOS Cup finals, and the Bruins refusing them. There must be a lot of these stories out there.

[QUOTE]Here’s what we know: The B’s and their posse -- 22 of them -- were dining in the Stanhope Street hot spot just a little too close to the Canadian-born Sexiest Man Alive, who felt the need to stand up for his hometown heroes. There was some, um, chatting back and forth, which, we’re told, resulted in RyReyn sending over 22 shots of tequila to the Black & Gold bunch. Quite sporting of him, but it didn’t make up for the hit on Horton, if you ask us ...
Oddly, the Stanley Cup champs refused the liquid olive branch and offered the tequila to a table of bachelorette party revelers.[QUOTE] LINK.

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11-04-2013, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by blitzkriegs View Post
Never mentioned or implied any sympathy, just sharing that this happens in the NHL too. Moreover, each player receives a travel allowance - much like any other person traveling for work. So, even when they go above and beyond, a portion is covered under the travel allowance.
It's supposed to be a one time thing. If it goes above and beyond that like in this case then it's not right. If they are bleeding the rookies all year long then they are taking it too far!

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11-04-2013, 11:39 AM
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Felix Unger
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It's supposed to be a one time thing. If it goes above and beyond that like in this case then it's not right. If they are bleeding the rookies all year long then they are taking it too far!
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm going with this.

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11-04-2013, 12:43 PM
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Incognito has a well documented reputation of being a world class D-bag. A certain amount of good natured ball breaking of rooks goes on in every sport. If it brings the team closer together, great. If a vet takes it too far to where it's more about just humiliating a guy for no reason then shame on the vet. Hopefully Incognito is exposed for being the colossal tool he is.


Pretty much all you need to know about this idiot:

http://www.muscleweek.com/richie-incognito-nfl-bully


Last edited by lazycop: 11-04-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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11-04-2013, 01:15 PM
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I think the Dolphin story is a combination of a kid who is more sensitive than the average pro-athlete thrown in with a world class dbag in Incognito. It was just a really bad situation for that type of thing.

I imagine this happens in all of pro-sport.

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11-04-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
I think the Dolphin story is a combination of a kid who is more sensitive than the average pro-athlete thrown in with a world class dbag in Incognito. It was just a really bad situation for that type of thing.

I imagine this happens in all of pro-sport.
There's no room for sensitivity in football. Just like there's no crying in baseball.

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11-04-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Renbarg View Post
I think the Dolphin story is a combination of a kid who is more sensitive than the average pro-athlete thrown in with a world class dbag in Incognito. It was just a really bad situation for that type of thing.

I imagine this happens in all of pro-sport.
Your right on the second part of it, that Incognito is a world class dbag. But from what is starting to come out now, it seems to be more serious stuff then financial hazing and Martin being too sensitive.

"It was being portrayed as a case of Incognito bullying Martin, a second-year offensive tackle, but it went to a different level Monday when Fox Sports reported that the Dolphins and the NFL Player Association were informed that Incognito sent Martin, who is biracial, text messages and left him voicemails that are threatening and racially charged."

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/fo...icle-1.1506090

I have a feeling this story will be developing further for a few days with more information coming out.

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11-04-2013, 02:37 PM
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CodeE
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I think the large team nature of the NFL lends it way toward this... coaches might be too busy with the defense, or any other position so that bullying can occur among offensive linemen.

Hockey is a more close-knit group, and if some player came in threatening and bullying the youngsters to the extent Incognitio did, they wouldn't last long in the NHL. On the Islanders specifically Snow would ship them out ASAP.

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11-04-2013, 02:47 PM
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MatthewBarnabysTears
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Originally Posted by CodeE View Post
I think the large team nature of the NFL lends it way toward this... coaches might be too busy with the defense, or any other position so that bullying can occur among offensive linemen.

Hockey is a more close-knit group, and if some player came in threatening and bullying the youngsters to the extent Incognitio did, they wouldn't last long in the NHL. On the Islanders specifically Snow would ship them out ASAP.
Funny that this incident was scrubbed from Sean Avery's wikipedia page (and apparently replaced by a lot of info about his fashion/marketing/modeling careers. I'm sure all those changes were made by neutral editors):

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...lisp-and-wife/

Quote:
in dressing rooms where razzing is the lingua franca, the lisp made [Dustin Brown] an easy target early in his career. Sean Avery, an occasional linemate of Brown’s from 2003 to ’07, would insert the needle. “This was bullying, like you might see in high school,” says Ian Laperričre, the former Kings forward who now mentors young players in the Flyers organization.

The analogy is apt; Brown was still a teenager at the time. According to L.A. players and coaches from that era, Brown’s lisp was not Avery’s primary target. Avery also zeroed in on Brown’s girlfriend—now his wife—a slender, fresh-faced girl-next-door-type from their hometown of Ithaca, N.Y. Apparently Avery didn’t think she was glamorous enough to be the girlfriend of a hockey player in Hollywood. “I am not a trophy wife,” says Nicole Brown, who has been with her husband for almost a dozen years (and married to him for five). “By any means.”
**** that guy.

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11-04-2013, 02:58 PM
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Wedregast
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More info.. some of the VMs:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-sh...9513--nfl.html

This guy sounds like he was a lot worse then Avery was to Brown. Wonder if this was the Incognito's only target on his own team?

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11-04-2013, 03:31 PM
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Felix Unger
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This guy sounds like he was a lot worse then Avery was to Brown. Wonder if this was the Incognito's only target on his own team?
There's no way in hell. I'm certain the floodgates are about to open on this guy. Now that Incognito is humiliated, players he has harassed previously won't be afraid of being blackballed if they expose more. I expect to hear a lot from former Dolphins in the next few days.

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11-04-2013, 04:19 PM
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as an obscenely friendly Canadian, I find this troubling. I've played sports and I trash talk regularly, be it ball hockey or baseball or whatever. But there's a difference between the teammate-bonding sarcastic/fun razzing and being an idiot. If you can't tell that your words may be hurtful, or worse, if you don't care, then I'd hope someone would step in and say "that's not cool"

I've never been a victim of this stuff, or if I was, it really didn't affect me, but there's a whole lotta wrong there.

And on Avery, whether the stories are true or not (I believe them because I've heard similar things about him), I'm glad he's out of the game.

** point of clarity: It's still okay to belittle people on HF, if their opinions are "wrong" - correct? **

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11-06-2013, 04:46 PM
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Islander rookie hazing.

Veteran- " hey kid the delivery boy is here from Chipotle can you go take care of it?

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11-06-2013, 05:55 PM
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I think there is some in the NHL, but not to the extent of the NFL. Reason why? NHL rookies usually don't make as much as NFL rookies.

Also, team meals won't cost as much due to roster sizes etc.

I don't mind the notion of paying 15k for dinners and such, but I do have an issue with handing over 15k for someone to go gamble it away without me.

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11-06-2013, 06:05 PM
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I remember the year Pitt traded for Hossa, the isles were playing them. The pens played a joke on Colby Armstrong and packed all of his equipment up to pretend he got traded. Later they all found out he got traded.

The team must have felt very awkward after that haha.

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11-07-2013, 09:33 AM
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Felix Unger
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Originally Posted by Sparksrus3 View Post
Islander rookie hazing.

Veteran- " hey kid the delivery boy is here from Chipotle can you go take care of it?
That's my guess, too. That and Starbucks runs.

This situation is interesting because it often reveals more about the people commenting on it than it does about the situation. For example, when people say, "How does a 6'5" 300 lb guy get bullied?," it's a pretty good sign they're stupid. Pretty easy for a 300 pound guy to get bullied by 3 or 4 other 300 lb guys.

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11-07-2013, 11:12 AM
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I think there is some in the NHL, but not to the extent of the NFL. Reason why? NHL rookies usually don't make as much as NFL rookies.

Also, team meals won't cost as much due to roster sizes etc.

I don't mind the notion of paying 15k for dinners and such, but I do have an issue with handing over 15k for someone to go gamble it away without me.
Remember that nhl contacts are also guaranteed, while nfl contracts are not. and nhl rookies have different leagues to fall back on. So while the first four rounds of nfl rookies are doing well, the rest could just as easily be at a McDonalds flipping burgers once camp closes.

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11-07-2013, 12:20 PM
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I have a hard time finding sympathy for rookies having to pay a huge bill at dinner/bar. These guys are absolutely worth what they get paid, but even the league minimum in any of the 4 sports is a megaton of cash. Hell they should be buying me dinner too.

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11-07-2013, 12:42 PM
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Felix Unger
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I have a hard time finding sympathy for rookies having to pay a huge bill at dinner/bar. These guys are absolutely worth what they get paid, but even the league minimum in any of the 4 sports is a megaton of cash. Hell they should be buying me dinner too.
NFL players get paid on a per-game basis. If a lot of the things you hear are true, some of these guys are going to have hefty credit card bills even before the season actually starts.

I dunno, but I guess I don't think that's a great idea.

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11-07-2013, 01:10 PM
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Not financial , but I played High School and College sports and went thru a hazing period in both and never complained about it.
This was 20 years ago but the rookies, freshman, whatever (newest to the team) had to box each other and the winner had to box there way up the toughness ladder but the losers had to carry skates,bags,sticks jocks and what not.
Baseball had to carry everything and if u were riding the bench you were the lucky recipient of the dead arm, each player got to punch you one in the arm.
There were other little things but these were the harshest.
Back to financial for the most part its harmless and if u want to be part of the team its a must.

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11-07-2013, 01:46 PM
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Felix Unger
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Baseball had to carry everything and if u were riding the bench you were the lucky recipient of the dead arm, each player got to punch you one in the arm.
Wow. That's actually a ritual that, in the right (or wrong) circumstances, could cost your team a run. (This from a no-hit all-D undersized catcher.)

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