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I am sick of these RYDER bashing????

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Old
12-17-2006, 07:17 PM
  #51
loadie
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Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
Ok, I'll try to be more explicit next time since it seems hard for some of you to read between the lines. I don't even know where you take what you said.
He was talking about Koivu who brings a lot more than goals to the table. Ryder needs to score but the guy has no consistency. If we could get a true warrior for him, even if he's a bit less talented, for sure I would take him.
Huh? What are you talking about? Your comments make no sense. If you want to say something, say it so someone doesn't have to read between the lines. Where did Koivu come in this conversation? Maybe you should quote what you were talking about earlier I guess. Of course Koivu brings more to the table than Ryder...did I say differently?

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Old
12-17-2006, 07:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post


Ryder is a goalscorer period. He brings nothing else to this team. That's kind of normal that people aren't happy when he can't score.

Do you have other easy questions like that?
Thread over/

Skimming quickly, I can't believe there are some of you actually disagreeing with p19 here. Ryder's main goal in the NHL is to score goals. (lol) He's decent physically, and decent on the PK, but his strength, and what keeps him as a top 6 guy, is putting pucks in the net and putting up points. He's not a great skater, he's not a great puckhandler, isn't that defensively, but he's a fantastic goalscorer. And that alone makes him a good asset.

But when he doesn't produce, people are going to understandably be a little worried and start to ask why. Sure he's been good on the PK this year, but that's not why we have Ryder. As for trade value, please be realistic guys, we wouldn't be getting any good return for a guy like Ryder.

I love him, but we've just got to ride it out with Ryder (lol) and hope he starts putting more pucks in the net. He's getting chances though, and creating chances for his teammates, which is good to see. If he keeps it simple, the numbers will come, as we saw last night. (Although he did have some very nice dangles last night.) Anyways, I'm not worried about Ryder, and I think the numbers will keep coming, but there's no sense in trading him.

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12-17-2006, 07:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Quiet Robert View Post
Thread over/

Skimming quickly, I can't believe there are some of you actually disagreeing with p19 here. Ryder's main goal in the NHL is to score goals. (lol) He's decent physically, and decent on the PK, but his strength, and what keeps him as a top 6 guy, is putting pucks in the net and putting up points. He's not a great skater, he's not a great puckhandler, isn't that defensively, but he's a fantastic goalscorer. And that alone makes him a good asset.

But when he doesn't produce, people are going to understandably be a little worried and start to ask why. Sure he's been good on the PK this year, but that's not why we have Ryder. As for trade value, please be realistic guys, we wouldn't be getting any good return for a guy like Ryder.

I love him, but we've just got to ride it out with Ryder (lol) and hope he starts putting more pucks in the net. He's getting chances though, and creating chances for his teammates, which is good to see. If he keeps it simple, the numbers will come, as we saw last night. (Although he did have some very nice dangles last night.) Anyways, I'm not worried about Ryder, and I think the numbers will keep coming, but there's no sense in trading him.
I agree with you, and unless we trade Ryder for a second line center who is AS valuable as him, I want him on my team. I just don't want him on the first line because I think he doesn't use his teamates well enough to play with exceptional players like Koivu or Higgins. He's the type of player who will quickly shot a bouncing puck and somehow score, he's a garbage man, like in the Mighty Ducks movie, he's not the type of player who capitalize on Koivu setting him up. That being said, I think that Ryder would be EXTREMELY valuable on our second line, especially now, because he doesn't need someone to set him up perfectly.

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Old
12-17-2006, 07:53 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by CHfan4ever View Post
Seriously.There is soo many proposal i see on these board " Ryder + bla bla for "x" player, why the hell you wat to send him away exactly? Because he got some bad streak that he can't score?? Jesus, our top player Koivu have these kind of streak, he can only score about 20 goals a season, do we want to send him away??

God Michael Ryder is an EIGHT rounder, chance that he would be playing in in the NHL is close to ZERO.He stand up, improve and not only he made the team, but he is a THIRTHY GOAL SCORER( that's something we dont see offen in the last decade here in Montreal)

There is a few players in our team i dont like atm yes ( Hmm Murray,Niinimaa and Kovalev for what we pay him for), but jesus give a break at Ryder.

Please
A) if you are sick of it , don't read the threads or posts about it .

B) What a trade proposal has to do with bashing someone ??? ; A trade is trade , not a critic . The need of more strengh at a position , the need to get more cap space are reasons why you make a trade . You give and you receive help , just to be a better team . No bashing in that .

C)You don't do a trade because " you don't like " a player . You do a trade to be more strong in a specific position , most of the time , by trading a player in a specific position where you are very strong or where you have depth .

D ) our weak position is the second line center . We are strong in the net , we are ok for the defensive corp ( but depth ), we are strong for the 3th - 4th liners and we are strong for the 1-2 nd line wingers . Now that Higgins is coming back , we have even too much players to play on that lines . We also have a player that is waiting a spot , in the AHL . Do i have to
explain you the conclusion ?

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Old
12-17-2006, 08:26 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
The point is, I think we're stuck with Samsonov like it or not, unless we take somebody else's problem back.

We do need a better 2nd line center. If there are better options out there than dealing Ryder and not creating another hole in the lineup, I would certainly be open to it. I think the hole left by dealing Ryder is certainly easier to fill internally than if we dealt from another area in the lineup.
Exact .

We need a second line center , so who could we trade for that player ?

Koivu ? hell no !
Higgins ? hell no !
Johnson ? not enough and UFA at the end of the season ; no value
Bonk ? UFA no value
Begin ? no value
Murray, Downey ? common ! no value
Perezhogin ? not expensive , and is finding his game , valuable for us more than for what he could bring in return .
Latendresse ? he's cheap and young . hell no !

That's leave Ryder , Samsonov and Kovalev . Kovy is a better player and is a playoffs performer .

Samsonov , great if he can bring us a second liner center , may be if we add something else , but i doubt .

Ryder ? 30 goals scorer , but will he repeat it this season ?

Now do the exercise , with different combos

is Lang + Kosty is better than Ryder ?

Is Lapierre + Kosty + Datsyuk is better than Ryder + .....

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Old
12-17-2006, 08:29 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by habgab View Post
I can't imagine upon what basis you say Ryder is difficult and overvalues himself in contract negotiations. Difficult - he is where he is by following the instructions of coaches, so I would think he is not difficult at all. Overvalued? - he was offered 1.1 million when Ribeiro had settled at 2 million - who wouldn't dig in at that? He ultimately settled without arbitration. I hardly think that asking to be paid your market value, or thereabouts, is overvaluing yourself.

He certainly didn't look lost on the ice last night - and, given that he has in the last few years been one of the top guys at putting the puck in the net (which is after all how a team advances to the playoffs, by scoring goals), he seems to know where the net is located - that is a pretty important thing to know, I would think....
yeah but your forgetting that he doesn't convert every latendresse pass , therefore he is a useless player who only scores garbage goals . he is slow , can't deke , can't receive a pass , can't make a pass , can't hit and is weak on his skates . he is so bad that all we can hope get for him in a trade is a second line center . some posters on this board are so full of ***** their eyes are starting to turn brown .

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Old
12-17-2006, 10:13 PM
  #57
Slew Foots
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Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post
some posters on this board are so full of ***** their eyes are starting to turn brown .
You do know that brown happens to be a common eye color, right?

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Old
12-17-2006, 10:28 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by habsfan44 View Post
yeah but your forgetting that he doesn't convert every latendresse pass , therefore he is a useless player who only scores garbage goals . he is slow , can't deke , can't receive a pass , can't make a pass , can't hit and is weak on his skates . he is so bad that all we can hope get for him in a trade is a second line center . some posters on this board are so full of ***** their eyes are starting to turn brown .


Players like Selane , Thorton , Hossa , Gretsky , Hull , Turgeon , Pronger , Sundin , Havlat , Kovalev , Jagr , Roy , Huet ( ) , Bertuzzi , Recchi , Leclerc , etc have been traded at one point .

Does that mean that they were bad , not skilled , slow , weak in their zone , etc ?

Ryder doesn't get anything more than those players , that makes him untradeable . He's a top 6 players of a team +- as good as the top 6 players of all the NHL's- average to good -teams .

And a second line center , enough good to be first line center if Saku gets injured , IS ALSO A TOP 6 PLAYER , as Ryder . Capitch ?

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Old
12-17-2006, 10:34 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
You do know that brown happens to be a common eye color, right?

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Old
12-18-2006, 01:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by antidot View Post


Players like Selane , Thorton , Hossa , Gretsky , Hull , Turgeon , Pronger , Sundin , Havlat , Kovalev , Jagr , Roy , Huet ( ) , Bertuzzi , Recchi , Leclerc , etc have been traded at one point .

Does that mean that they were bad , not skilled , slow , weak in their zone , etc ?

Ryder doesn't get anything more than those players , that makes him untradeable . He's a top 6 players of a team +- as good as the top 6 players of all the NHL's- average to good -teams .

And a second line center , enough good to be first line center if Saku gets injured , IS ALSO A TOP 6 PLAYER , as Ryder . Capitch ?
i'm not saying that ryder is untradeable or untouchable i am only repeating a sampling of the myriad of ridiculous reasons why posters on this board feel that ryder should be traded , one even said that he is difficult and over values himself in contract negotiations ! just stating something as a FACT does NOT make it a FACT . all players go through bad stretches and there are no exceptions but the fact that RYDER goes without a goal in eight or nine games seems to perturb many posters here and i don't know why . barring muti goal games , there are more than fifty games in which ryder or any other thirty goal scorer for that matter fails to score so it's no surprise to me when he doesn't score in 8-9-10 straight games . ryder is a perfectly good top six winger in this league and trading him to fix a hole at center when the solution lies within would be a step backward for this team at this point in time .

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:06 PM
  #61
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Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. Ryder brings something to this team that few others can (Higgins?). He is in a slump, but I bet he finishes with over 30 goals this season. Every player gets into slumps, especially near the beginning and ends of their careers.

This is Ryders 3rd season. Give him time, he was an 8th round draft pick, he worked hard to get here and he will work hard to get out of this slump. In a month or two, there will be other players who are in slumps, and everyone will be asking for them to be traded. It's the way it goes.

Sure, if an unrefusable offer comes Gaineys way which involves Ryder, pull the trigger, but right now the Habs are winning, the 1st line seems to click (when they are healthy), and you can never have too many goto guys on a team (which Ryder has proved himself to be for the past two season). Why trade Ryder who can resigned for long term for a 2nd line center that will leave in the summer... I think the habs should try and go on a Cup run, but trading away all their future assets to do it is risky, especially since this team will only be better in years to come as the youngsters hit their primes. That is starting to sound an awful lot like the Quinn era in Toronto (Nolan?).

I agree that a 2nd line center is what the team needs, but Ryder seems like a steep price to pay and I don't think the return would be worth it. The 2nd line centers available are nothing special right now, or just plain impossible to get. We should give Pleks time and Higgins a shot before getting panicky and making trades that we might regret next year.
yeah i agree and i think that higgins will be the solution at center and that will enable latendresse to remain on one of the top two lines , maybe something like this kovalev-koivu-ryder , latendresse-higgins-samsonov , third line remains the same and a fourth line made up of some combination of murray , begin , downey , lapierre , streit and plekanec , i would like to see begin-plekanec-streit .

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:29 PM
  #62
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Ryder is effective as long as he remembers that he has linemates...

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12-18-2006, 02:36 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Darkside Cowboy View Post
Ryder will not be traded. We have a whole bunch of floaters to get rid of before he's sent away.
Floaters don't get you a good return, you have to give up something decent to get something decent in return.

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12-18-2006, 02:40 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
Ryder is effective as long as he remembers that he has linemates...
I don't think you need that smilie on this one, it seems like a reasonable thing to say about him.

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12-18-2006, 02:46 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
I don't think you need that smilie on this one, it seems like a reasonable thing to say about him.
He's smartened up recently, so I'm cutting him a break.

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12-18-2006, 02:52 PM
  #66
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Being from Newfoundland, I think, makes me harder on him.

Hey, the guys with Orange-Cat avatars are talking.

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12-18-2006, 02:56 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
Being from Newfoundland, I think, makes me harder on him.

Hey, the guys with Orange-Cat avatars are talking.
It's not my cat, I stole it from the internet. My other picture was of a mean dog and people thought I was mean just from my picture. So I changed it to have a new image. It worked.

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Old
12-18-2006, 03:02 PM
  #68
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ohhhh......I'm just a cat dork alone then.....

People on these boards think you're mean if you disagree with them or have something different to say. I'm sure your "no more wimps" mantra makes people get angry at you often.

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Old
12-18-2006, 09:45 PM
  #69
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I like Lapierre a lot. He's definitely more talented offensively than a guy like Steve Begin. However, I wouldn't compare him to Peca...different class of player.

Lapierre has a great work ethic and he's blessed with really good speed, but his hockey IQ is nowhere near as good as a guy like Peca. What does this mean? It means Peca is vastly superior in his understanding of the game, both offensively and defensively. While Lapierre could maybe one day learn what it takes to be a great defensive player positionallly, he'll never acquire the offensive awareness needed to play on a scoring line. You either have it or you don't. I just don't see how you can use him on a scoring line.

I agree 100% that a scoring line can benefit from a grinder type player. But you need that grinder to have a high hockey IQ to compensate for the lack of natural talent. Chipchura is a possible example of this. While he may not be the most talented, I could see him becoming a 2nd line center...a Rucchin type...because he's very smart and reads plays well offensively. Lapierre, on the other, doesn't have that offensive awareness that Chipchura has. Peca, like Chipchura, understands the game very well, and that's why he can get 60 points even if he ain't the most skilled guy (btw, I think he's more skilled than Lapierre too).

I love Lapierre, but people need to relax about his upside. This isn't a case "like Higgins". Higgins was always a scorer; it's the fans who erroneously assumed he was a grinder when he started his NHL career...they didn't know who Higgins was, never followed him at Yale or Hamilton...it's normal not to know. Many people still don't know Lapierre too well...yes, he's way more skilled than Murray or Begin. But no, he doesn't have what it takes to ever play on a scoring line. But hey, I'd be ecstatic if, with time, he proves me wrong.
You talk like you have season tickets to the Bulldogs.

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12-18-2006, 10:01 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by loadie View Post
Huh? What are you talking about? Your comments make no sense. If you want to say something, say it so someone doesn't have to read between the lines. Where did Koivu come in this conversation? Maybe you should quote what you were talking about earlier I guess. Of course Koivu brings more to the table than Ryder...did I say differently?
No, it's the guy who started the thread who was comparing Ryder with Koivu.

All I said is that Ryder was unidimensionnal.

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12-18-2006, 10:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by NRG87 View Post
I like Lapierre a lot. He's definitely more talented offensively than a guy like Steve Begin. However, I wouldn't compare him to Peca...different class of player.

Lapierre has a great work ethic and he's blessed with really good speed, but his hockey IQ is nowhere near as good as a guy like Peca. What does this mean? It means Peca is vastly superior in his understanding of the game, both offensively and defensively. While Lapierre could maybe one day learn what it takes to be a great defensive player positionallly, he'll never acquire the offensive awareness needed to play on a scoring line. You either have it or you don't. I just don't see how you can use him on a scoring line.

I agree 100% that a scoring line can benefit from a grinder type player. But you need that grinder to have a high hockey IQ to compensate for the lack of natural talent. Chipchura is a possible example of this. While he may not be the most talented, I could see him becoming a 2nd line center...a Rucchin type...because he's very smart and reads plays well offensively. Lapierre, on the other, doesn't have that offensive awareness that Chipchura has. Peca, like Chipchura, understands the game very well, and that's why he can get 60 points even if he ain't the most skilled guy (btw, I think he's more skilled than Lapierre too).

I love Lapierre, but people need to relax about his upside. This isn't a case "like Higgins". Higgins was always a scorer; it's the fans who erroneously assumed he was a grinder when he started his NHL career...they didn't know who Higgins was, never followed him at Yale or Hamilton...it's normal not to know. Many people still don't know Lapierre too well...yes, he's way more skilled than Murray or Begin. But no, he doesn't have what it takes to ever play on a scoring line. But hey, I'd be ecstatic if, with time, he proves me wrong.

A couple of major quibbles. Higgins was one of the best players and top scorers in the ECAC. He was never seen as a grinder. He was also the second leading scorer at Hamilton, better than Chipchura is now.

I can't see Chipchura as the second line center, at least not if the Habs are ever to contend for a championship. Carolina had Rod Brind'Amour as their second line center. In addition to being a Selke trophy winner he's also a dangerous offensive player, miles ahead of Rucchin and Chipchura. The Penguins have Yevgeni Malkin as their second center and Jordan Staal as their third. Obviously before long the Pittsburgh centers would be able to outscore those on our team by a cumulative 50 goals. So, be content to see Chipchura centering the third line.

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12-18-2006, 10:12 PM
  #72
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You're sick of the Ryder bashing? I'm not, why is he on the first line anyways instead of Perezhogin or Latendresse?

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12-18-2006, 10:14 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
I agree. But, what bugs me with Ryder is that he's a good SECOND line player. All he does is waste Koivu's passes. Ryder is good at shooting from anywhere and then sometime scores; he doesn't need Koivu to do pass him the puck, and he can't take advantage of Koivu's passes and creativity because it's not his game.
I beg to differ. He can take advantage of Koivu's creativity and passes (witness his 30 goals last season). You'll see his totals go up before the season is over, especially since Higgins is back and Ryder is playing on the first PP unit.

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Old
12-18-2006, 10:17 PM
  #74
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Fortunately, we're 19-8. Imagine if it wasn't the case.

Oh! the humanity!

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12-18-2006, 10:20 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
You're sick of the Ryder bashing? I'm not, why is he on the first line anyways instead of Perezhogin or Latendresse?
Because he can score. He's our only real scoring threat, him and Higgins. I just have a feeling that if we trade him, he'll hit the 40+ goal plateau, and we're gonna regret it.

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