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Old
11-07-2013, 01:36 PM
  #101
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My first guess is that Sid has the most input into who he plays with and might not want BB there, but who knows. A healthy team would shed more light onto this... and I don't think we're going to have that for a while.

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11-07-2013, 02:06 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by PensPlz View Post
My first guess is that Sid has the most input into who he plays with and might not want BB there, but who knows. A healthy team would shed more light onto this... and I don't think we're going to have that for a while.
Why in the world would that be your first guess? I will never understand why some believe that Crosby is the one making the lineup decisions (while there's no evidence) when there is plenty of examples of Bylsma making poor or stubborn choices.

Did Crosby tell Dan to play Glass as his right wing last night after Dupuis went down? I highly doubt it.

Crosby made it a point to work out with Beau one off-season and has done nothing but rave about his talent and skill. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Sid would make it a point to say he didn't want to play with him.

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11-07-2013, 02:19 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Why in the world would that be your first guess? I will never understand why some believe that Crosby is the one making the lineup decisions (while there's no evidence) when there is plenty of examples of Bylsma making poor or stubborn choices.

Did Crosby tell Dan to play Glass as his right wing last night after Dupuis went down? I highly doubt it.

Crosby made it a point to work out with Beau one off-season and has done nothing but rave about his talent and skill. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Sid would make it a point to say he didn't want to play with him.
Even if KCD did get broken up, Crosby wouldn't complain about it. That's not the kind of player he is despite the main board's opinion that he's a whiner.

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11-07-2013, 03:22 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Why in the world would that be your first guess? I will never understand why some believe that Crosby is the one making the lineup decisions (while there's no evidence) when there is plenty of examples of Bylsma making poor or stubborn choices.
Speculation over why they stick Iginla into a LW position instead of playing RW with Sid (instead of Duper) and why we haven't seen the insanely successful Kuntiz-Malkin-Neal line or even any traces of it since Sid coming back.

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11-07-2013, 03:33 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by PensPlz View Post
Speculation over why they stick Iginla into a LW position instead of playing RW with Sid (instead of Duper) and why we haven't seen the insanely successful Kuntiz-Malkin-Neal line or even any traces of it since Sid coming back.
Wouldn't the much more logical answer be this?




Seriously. Crosby said he'd be happy playing with anyone while Bylsma literally promised Dupuis to stay on the first line. (And we did see KMN last year for 2.5 games in the playoffs before Dan randomly changed the lines back because of one bad period).

I don't see how anything you said points more towards Crosby making the decision than Bylsma.

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11-07-2013, 03:51 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
I don't see how anything you said points more towards Crosby making the decision than Bylsma.
Because I don't get why Bylsma would get a contract extension otherwise after another disapointing loss in the playoffs I don't have anything negative to say if it were Sid saying he wanted Kunitz and Dupers on his line and no one else. It would just explain a lot.

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11-07-2013, 04:15 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by PensPlz View Post
Because I don't get why Bylsma would get a contract extension otherwise after another disapointing loss in the playoffs I don't have anything negative to say if it were Sid saying he wanted Kunitz and Dupers on his line and no one else. It would just explain a lot.
Bylsma made other bad decisions besides that. Did Sid also tell Dan to take Iggy off the first powerplay unit? Did Sid tell Dan to keep the Niskanen-Letang pair together? Did Sid tell Dan that Bennett and Despres should be scratched despite outplaying veterans?

Doubtful. Bylsma got an extension because we made it to the ECF and would have gone on to the SCF if we could have just gotten to our game and there wasn't a force field around the net.

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11-07-2013, 04:30 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Waffle Fries View Post
Wouldn't the much more logical answer be this?




Seriously. Crosby said he'd be happy playing with anyone while Bylsma literally promised Dupuis to stay on the first line. (And we did see KMN last year for 2.5 games in the playoffs before Dan randomly changed the lines back because of one bad period).

I don't see how anything you said points more towards Crosby making the decision than Bylsma.
Whether it's Bylsma's call or Crosby's call or whatever, the fact is that KCD is useless against tight checking teams and neither of them has noticed the trend.

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Old
11-08-2013, 05:21 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by orby View Post
The only real reason is Bennett's inexperience. Even though Bylsma loves the KCD line to death, I would have to think that by next season Bennett will no longer be considered a tenderfoot in the lineup and will be given serious consideration to play in Dupuis' spot on that line, as long as he keeps up the good work.
Your counting on the guy who forced Iggy a FHOF to play his off wing and not even try him with Sid and managed to remove his lethal bomb from the PP to wise up and come to his senses with a kid like BB?!? LOLz you funny guy!

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11-11-2013, 06:26 PM
  #110
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Would like to see what people's thoughts on a full time roster looking like this would be because I would love to see it for at least a month.

Malkin - Crosby - Bennett
Neal - Jokinen - Kunitz
Megna - Sutter - Dupuis
Glass - Adams/Vitale - Adams/Vitale

Letang - Scuderi
Orpik - Martin
Niskanen -Maata

Fleury/Vokoun

Would love to see Orpik and Niskanen moved later for a better playmaking #2C. (Wishful thinking) Despres and Bortuzzo come up full time.

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11-11-2013, 06:55 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by MRY71 View Post
Would like to see what people's thoughts on a full time roster looking like this would be because I would love to see it for at least a month.

Malkin - Crosby - Bennett
Neal - Jokinen - Kunitz
Good God, why would you do this?

I guess if I had a healthy roster, my lines would be...

Dupuis-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Megna
Kobasew-Vitale-Adams
Glass;D'Ags

Letang-Scuds
Martin-Orpik
Bortuzzo-Maatta-Niskanen

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Old
11-11-2013, 06:57 PM
  #112
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i wouldnt mind seeing malkin and crosby on a line for a few games. they both have to be sick of playing with stiffs. allow them to spend some time together, maybe jump start each other. lord knows dupuis isnt going to help crosby get out of this funk.

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11-11-2013, 07:04 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRY71 View Post
Would like to see what people's thoughts on a full time roster looking like this would be because I would love to see it for at least a month.

Malkin - Crosby - Bennett
Neal - Jokinen - Kunitz
Megna - Sutter - Dupuis
Glass - Adams/Vitale - Adams/Vitale

Letang - Scuderi
Orpik - Martin
Niskanen -Maata

Fleury/Vokoun

Would love to see Orpik and Niskanen moved later for a better playmaking #2C. (Wishful thinking) Despres and Bortuzzo come up full time.
I would very much not like to see that happen.


Top 6 Winger-Crosby-Bennett
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Jokinen-Sutter-Dupuis
Engelland-Vitale-Megna

Scuderi-Letang
Martin-Despres
Maatta-Bortuzzo

Fleury
Vokoun ()

If there's no new top 6 winger (reality), then it's a flexible top 9 of Bennett, Crosby, Dupuis (primarily 3rd line), Jokinen, Kunitz, Malkin, Megna, Neal and Sutter.

Glass-Vitale-Engelland

Scuderi-Letang
Martin-Orpik (sorry Martin)
Maatta-Bortuzzo

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11-11-2013, 07:44 PM
  #114
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Hilarious that people want 8 goal Jokinen on the 3rd line with 0goal (3 career) Bennett on the 1st/2nd.

As far as lines go...stomach this:

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Bennett-Malkin-Crosby
Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy

is what we could have had in last year's playoffs. Glass and Adams saw time...Iginla, despite being a HHOF RW...played LW. Line combos are NOT DB's strong suit.

I would like to see Bennett or Megna get some time with Kunitz-Sid just to see what's there. Ideally:

Jokinen-Crosby-Bennett/Megna
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

is what I'd like to see tried for a game. However, the bottom line is, we need a Top 6 wing.

Kunitz/Dupuis-Crosby-Wing
Jokinen/Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Bennett-Sutter-Dupuis/Jokinen

is what we need to roll into the playoffs with. Ideally, to me at least, Kulemin and Ott are holding the fort down on the 3rd line.

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11-11-2013, 07:53 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Hilarious that people want 8 goal Jokinen on the 3rd line with 0goal (3 career) Bennett on the 1st/2nd.

As far as lines go...stomach this:

Kunitz-Crosby-Iginla
Bennett-Malkin-Crosby
Morrow-Jokinen-Dupuis
Cooke-Sutter-Kennedy

is what we could have had in last year's playoffs. Glass and Adams saw time...Iginla, despite being a HHOF RW...played LW. Line combos are NOT DB's strong suit.

I would like to see Bennett or Megna get some time with Kunitz-Sid just to see what's there. Ideally:

Jokinen-Crosby-Bennett/Megna
Kunitz-Malkin-Neal

is what I'd like to see tried for a game. However, the bottom line is, we need a Top 6 wing.

Kunitz/Dupuis-Crosby-Wing
Jokinen/Kunitz-Malkin-Neal
Bennett-Sutter-Dupuis/Jokinen

is what we need to roll into the playoffs with. Ideally, to me at least, Kulemin and Ott are holding the fort down on the 3rd line.
Disco, is that you?

Maybe people realize Bennett has top 6 pedigree, that's why. His skillset is wasted on the third line.

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11-11-2013, 08:13 PM
  #116
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Disco, is that you?

Maybe people realize Bennett has top 6 pedigree, that's why. His skillset is wasted on the third line.
Okay. Bennett over Jokinen. Justify it.

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11-11-2013, 08:45 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Okay. Bennett over Jokinen. Justify it.
You read the top 6 pedigree part, right?

I think it's hilarious you're comparing the number of goals between the two. Seems the only way you'd like Bennett is if he were born with 10 goals scored already.

The problem is, I'm starting to think the Penguins organization thinks like you do in regards to their young talent.

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11-11-2013, 08:58 PM
  #118
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In the 112* games he's spent at any level above the BCHL, Bennett scored a whopping 23 goals (most of these in the WCHA).

To put in perspective how low that is, Kunitz scored 66 in 110 (CCHA). Dupuis scored 80 in 118 (Q...but he also outpaced Bennett in terms of goalscoring in his rookie season in the minors).

You mentioned Hossa. Hossa is big-time apples and oranges. He barely spent any post-draft time in any developmental league, but doubed Bennett's goal production in less than half the games. Hossa has a feel for how to beat a goaltender that Kunitz will never have and Bennett will certainly never have.

Now, numbers across the WHL/QMJHL/CCHA aren't going to be exact. But if a guy is likely to be a goalscorer in the NHL, he's gonna score goals wherever he is before that (assuming the league he's in before that isn't trash, like the BCHL).

Bennett's got a lot going for him. Wins battles, smart, covers a lot of ground, can walk defenders.

But he's not a finisher, has never been a finisher and is unlikely to ever be a finisher. This is the reason they aren't going to put him with the sport's best passer. It would have been like putting Adam Oates on a line with Steve Yzerman. Or Scott Gomez with Joe Sakic. Just wouldn't have made any sense.

*included Bennett's NHL numbers because I went by years not playing in a trash league up to about 100 games. If I drop those out, the pattern doesn't substantially change.
You make some good argument but you also make some bad ones.

I'm not familiar with Kunitz's collegian career but I watched Bennett when ever I could. Kunitz played 152 games in the CCHA. I'm assuming a good portion of them on the top lines. Bennett played 47. His first season he played 37 games mostly on a 3rd line because Denver was stacked & on the 2nd PP unit for large parts of the season(from the half dozen or more games I saw). He put up 4 less points than Kunitz did his Freshman & Sophmore year.

Most of Kunitz's goals came in his junior & senior years which is expected. Bennett was playing in a league with men at this point in his career.

It's ridiculous to call Bennett a top 6 winger right now but it's just as ridiculous to suggest from that we even know what kind of player he's going to be because of 86 games he played in small chunks after being drafted.

Let's see him stay healthy & play some regular shifts in the NHL for an extended time before we start calling him anything other than a young forward with potential.

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11-11-2013, 09:01 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Shockmaster View Post
You read the top 6 pedigree part, right?

I think it's hilarious you're comparing the number of goals between the two. Seems the only way you'd like Bennett is if he were born with 10 goals scored already.

The problem is, I'm starting to think the Penguins organization thinks like you do in regards to their young talent.
No, its just laughable that when the Penguins actually do get a Top 6 capable and proven winger, you want to put him on the 3rd line. Yeah, put our leading (tied for) scoring winger who's shown chemistry and finishing ability with Malkin on the third line.

I'm not trying to screw Bennett out of Top 6 time...but come on, you're nuts for wanting him in the Top 6 and Jokinen on the 3rd line. If there is anyone that needs out of the Top 6 right now, it's Dupuis, not Jokinen.

At times, people here go too far the other way when considering where and when to play the youth. People were all for Tangradi being shoved down the Top 6 throat and he was terrible...but people ignored it. People wanted the same thing with Staal. Now people want Bennett in the Top 6 for the pure sake of having youth in the Top 6. Such delusion that people are willing to ignore the fact that Jokinen is our top scoring winger.


Last edited by SEALBound: 11-11-2013 at 09:24 PM.
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11-11-2013, 09:32 PM
  #120
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No, its just laughable that when the Penguins actually do get a Top 6 capable and proven winger, you want to put him on the 3rd him. Yeah, put our leading (tied for) scoring winger who's shown chemistry and finishing ability with Malkin on the third line.

I'm not trying to screw Bennett out of Top 6 time...but come on, you're nuts for wanting him in the Top 6 and Jokinen on the 3rd line. If there is anyone that needs out of the Top 6 right now, it's Dupuis, not Jokinen.

At times, people here go too far the other way when considering where and when to play the youth. People were all for Tangradi being shoved down the Top 6 throat and he was terrible...but people ignored it. People wanted the same thing with Staal. Now people want Bennett in the Top 6 for the pure sake of having youth in the Top 6. Such delusion that people are willing to ignore the fact that Jokinen is our top scoring winger.
Agreed. But look at his competition. Dupuis is a joke and Koon seemed to still be on vacation until the last 5 games.

I don't know if Bennett has proven enough to earn a spot on the top 6 on most teams. But it's come to the point where Dupuis has to be demoted and until Neal comes back, there's a huge a hole there. We need to get Malkin going. So id try Bennett with him. Crosby can play with worthless players, malkin can't. Something has to change. I'm glad we are 10th in scoring but look at their games against playoff teams, they aren't scoring much. They potted a lot against the crappy teams in the beginning of the season.

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11-11-2013, 09:47 PM
  #121
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Neal is back now. I'd sooner put BB with Geno and Neal, they could use his puck possession and playmaking. Maybe get Geno going with goal scoring. I'd move JJ to play with Sid and Kunitz, and play Dupuis on the third line.

That being said, I am fine with BB playing with Sutter too.

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11-11-2013, 10:06 PM
  #122
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Neal is back now. I'd sooner put BB with Geno and Neal, they could use his puck possession and playmaking. Maybe get Geno going with goal scoring. I'd move JJ to play with Sid and Kunitz, and play Dupuis on the third line.

That being said, I am fine with BB playing with Sutter too.
I could get on board with that.

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11-11-2013, 10:08 PM
  #123
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I agree with any plan involving demoting Dopee to the third where he belongs

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11-11-2013, 10:17 PM
  #124
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No, its just laughable that when the Penguins actually do get a Top 6 capable and proven winger, you want to put him on the 3rd line. Yeah, put our leading (tied for) scoring winger who's shown chemistry and finishing ability with Malkin on the third line.

I'm not trying to screw Bennett out of Top 6 time...but come on, you're nuts for wanting him in the Top 6 and Jokinen on the 3rd line. If there is anyone that needs out of the Top 6 right now, it's Dupuis, not Jokinen.

At times, people here go too far the other way when considering where and when to play the youth. People were all for Tangradi being shoved down the Top 6 throat and he was terrible...but people ignored it. People wanted the same thing with Staal. Now people want Bennett in the Top 6 for the pure sake of having youth in the Top 6. Such delusion that people are willing to ignore the fact that Jokinen is our top scoring winger.
Maybe Tangradi just sucked. There's been no indication Bennett will be the same. Poor comparison on your part. As for Staal, he did pretty well as the 2C while Crosby was dealing with the concussion issues.

And where the hell do you get that Jokinen has shown chemistry with Malkin? They've done almost nothing 5-on-5.

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11-11-2013, 10:35 PM
  #125
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Maybe Tangradi just sucked. There's been no indication Bennett will be the same. Poor comparison on your part. As for Staal, he did pretty well as the 2C while Crosby was dealing with the concussion issues.

And where the hell do you get that Jokinen has shown chemistry with Malkin? They've done almost nothing 5-on-5.
Jokinen: 8 Goals, 4 of them assisted by Malkin.

Staal did not do well. The fact that you think he did tells me all I need to know. Jokinen will stay in the Top 6. Deal with it.

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