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Hey Torts, Why again did you Rarely use McD on the PP?

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Old
11-08-2013, 02:46 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
if he gets there we can discuss.
Fair enough!

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Old
11-08-2013, 02:51 PM
  #77
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Maybe McD was a jitterbug too

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Old
11-08-2013, 02:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
He of no faith. The Cups and Gold Medals are team awards and of course he helped earn them. However, it is exactly these team wins that have people overrate his game. Defensively, he's not top 20 in the league and defense is important for a defenseman. His offense makes him elite and as I said if Mac get his numbers up, he will surpass the likes of Duncan Keith.
Good luck with that and welcome to
Fantasy Island, Rangers style where posters grossly overrate our roster players and all our prospects!
You're talking about the same guy who turned the puck over 3 freakin times on the very first shift vs Anaheim and who almost never wins a board battle or a battle in front of the net against the physically bigger teams in the league.

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Old
11-08-2013, 03:46 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
You love Duncan keith, don't ya? Like in a mushy, wet kinda way? McD will be a better player. Sorry, but it's true
McDonagh Norris caliber? That's like...really good.

I mean, he's a beautiful skater, and is already one of the league's best pure defensemen, but I don't think he has the offense to be considered that highly.

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11-08-2013, 03:52 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
McDonagh Norris caliber? That's like...really good.

I mean, he's a beautiful skater, and is already one of the league's best pure defensemen, but I don't think he has the offense to be considered that highly.
Good post; agree with you wholeheartedly as a D-man's offense weighs heavily in the voting for the Norris.

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11-08-2013, 03:55 PM
  #81
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Which doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't be a better defensemen. Case in point: P.K. Subban.

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Old
11-08-2013, 04:02 PM
  #82
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Tortorella admitted he screwed up with McDonagh

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For all of the good things Ryan McDonagh has done, he may have spent this whole time being underutilized.

At least that’s the opinion of Rangers coach John Tortorella, who Friday admitted he has made a mistake in not playing his top-pair defenseman on the power play more often.

“It’s me. I screwed that up, not using him earlier [on the power play] and I should have,” Tortorella said as his team prepared for Saturday night’s Game 5 of the Eastern Conference semifinals against the Bruins, who hold a 3-1 lead. “He wants to become that complete player, and he is still so wet behind the ears as far as his age and what he needs to learn about that position that it’s really encouraging.”
http://nypost.com/2013/05/25/tortore...rs-power-play/

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McDonagh played 3:32 on the power play in Game 4. In the Rangers' first 10 playoff games, he was on the ice with a man advantage for only a total of 4:16. The Rangers scored their first power-play goal of the series in the third period to tie the score at 3.
http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey...play-1.5335401

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Old
11-09-2013, 07:09 PM
  #83
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Tortorella stinks on the PP.

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Old
11-09-2013, 10:16 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
I think this is true with or without the 45 points. If he gets to 50, he's top 5.

If he does that I'd have him just outside the top-5.

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Old
11-09-2013, 10:38 PM
  #85
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Physicality is a bad measuring stick for d-men IMO. Some of the best defensemen in the league are not physical at all (Bouwmeester, Pietrangelo, Keith, Yandle, etc).

This is my top 10 ranking:

1. Chara
2. Suter
3. Weber
4. Keith
5. Pietrangelo
6. Doughty
7. Karlsson
8. Subban
9. Kronwall
10. McDonagh + Ekman-Larsson are tied for 10th IMO.

Think that's a pretty good ranking.

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Old
11-09-2013, 11:10 PM
  #86
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Kronwall at 9? No. Just put OEL there.

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Old
11-10-2013, 06:38 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Physicality is a bad measuring stick for d-men IMO. Some of the best defensemen in the league are not physical at all (Bouwmeester, Pietrangelo, Keith, Yandle, etc).

This is my top 10 ranking:

1. Chara
2. Suter
3. Weber
4. Keith
5. Pietrangelo
6. Doughty
7. Karlsson
8. Subban
9. Kronwall
10. McDonagh + Ekman-Larsson are tied for 10th IMO.

Think that's a pretty good ranking.
these rankings are solid. Petro and Keith are overrated (Canadian bias). If Mac gets to 50 points he's in the top 5

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11-10-2013, 09:50 AM
  #88
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McDonagh has the hot offensive hand right now, among the D. I'm staying away from thinking this is permanent for a little while. Personally, I think there are stretches where Staal, Moore and Del Zotto could look this good on the powerplay.

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Old
11-10-2013, 10:29 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Physicality is a bad measuring stick for d-men IMO. Some of the best defensemen in the league are not physical at all (Bouwmeester, Pietrangelo, Keith, Yandle, etc).

This is my top 10 ranking:

1. Chara
2. Suter
3. Weber
4. Keith
5. Pietrangelo
6. Doughty
7. Karlsson
8. Subban
9. Kronwall
10. McDonagh + Ekman-Larsson are tied for 10th IMO.

Think that's a pretty good ranking.
Solid top 10.

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Old
11-10-2013, 01:43 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Physicality is a bad measuring stick for d-men IMO. Some of the best defensemen in the league are not physical at all (Bouwmeester, Pietrangelo, Keith, Yandle, etc).

This is my top 10 ranking:

1. Chara
2. Suter
3. Weber
4. Keith
5. Pietrangelo
6. Doughty
7. Karlsson
8. Subban
9. Kronwall
10. McDonagh + Ekman-Larsson are tied for 10th IMO.

Think that's a pretty good ranking.
I think your placement of McDonagh is alright. I'd maybe put him a little lower.

I don't think it can be stressed enough how overrated Doughty and OEL are at this point. Both of them would absolutely clobber McDonagh in a poll, regardless of who is better.

Doughty's offensive game has been declining since his sophomore year. OEL gets the "he plays in Phoenix so nobody watches him" treatment.

Both are great, but I'm consistently amazed at the praise they get sometimes.

Also, McDonagh was a wrecking ball at Wisconsin. Constantly stepping up at the blueline and crushing opponents. We saw flashes of it during the 2012 playoff run, especially against the Devils. I'd like to see it evolve into his game as he gets more comfortable out there. Del Zotto used to throw some monster checks as well. Not sure what the hell happened to that.

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Old
11-10-2013, 01:52 PM
  #91
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yeah doughty isnt a special player like everyone makes him out to be.

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Old
11-10-2013, 01:53 PM
  #92
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Del Zotto used to throw some monster checks as well. Not sure what the hell happened to that.

Same thing that happened to the rest of his game--he got put on the right side. Throwing a monster hit can take you out of position. You can only really do it if A- you are comfortable with your positioning or B- if you have a partner that will cover for you. MDZ still seems so lost on the right side, and Moore, while he does a lot of things well, is not going to give him the same defensive help that a guy like Staal or Sauer would (MDZ's partners when he was throwing many of those hits--he threw them his rookie year as well, but he really had no idea of where he was supposed to be in the first place back then).

I honestly want a reporter to ask them what their long term plan is for MDZ on the right side. It's been tried now for parts of two seasons with two different coaches and it has never looked good.

As for McD and the hitting, I hope he just keeps focusing on the offense this year. He's doing VERY well incorporating more attack to his game. Once he's comfortable with that, then let him bring in the wrecking ball style (though with McI on the way, he might not even need to--I'd rather him not risk injury. McD's too important).

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Old
11-10-2013, 02:12 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Same thing that happened to the rest of his game--he got put on the right side. Throwing a monster hit can take you out of position. You can only really do it if A- you are comfortable with your positioning or B- if you have a partner that will cover for you. MDZ still seems so lost on the right side, and Moore, while he does a lot of things well, is not going to give him the same defensive help that a guy like Staal or Sauer would (MDZ's partners when he was throwing many of those hits--he threw them his rookie year as well, but he really had no idea of where he was supposed to be in the first place back then).

I honestly want a reporter to ask them what their long term plan is for MDZ on the right side. It's been tried now for parts of two seasons with two different coaches and it has never looked good.

As for McD and the hitting, I hope he just keeps focusing on the offense this year. He's doing VERY well incorporating more attack to his game. Once he's comfortable with that, then let him bring in the wrecking ball style (though with McI on the way, he might not even need to--I'd rather him not risk injury. McD's too important).
Agreed.

Moore's just not a very good defenseman at this point as well (he is still outplaying MDZ though). I think his age and skating ability have deceived people a little bit. There are plenty of players that step in at a young age and just don't improve a whole lot; we've just been very fortunate the last 7 or 8 years in developing young defensemen (Tyutin, Girardi, Staal, McDonagh, MDZ, Sauer) and turning trash into treasure (Roszival, Malik, Stralman, Eminger to an extent).

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Old
11-10-2013, 02:21 PM
  #94
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Next question

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Old
11-10-2013, 08:46 PM
  #95
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We don't practice offense.

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Old
11-10-2013, 09:15 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Physicality is a bad measuring stick for d-men IMO. Some of the best defensemen in the league are not physical at all (Bouwmeester, Pietrangelo, Keith, Yandle, etc).

This is my top 10 ranking:

1. Chara
2. Suter
3. Weber
4. Keith
5. Pietrangelo
6. Doughty
7. Karlsson
8. Subban
9. Kronwall
10. McDonagh + Ekman-Larsson are tied for 10th IMO.

Think that's a pretty good ranking.
right names i would just change the order a little.

1. Chara
2. Suter
3. Weber
4. Karlsson
5. Pietrangelo
6. Subban
7. Keith
8. Doughty
9. Mcdonagh
10. Ekman-Larsson

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Old
11-11-2013, 04:48 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
these rankings are solid. Petro and Keith are overrated (Canadian bias). If Mac gets to 50 points he's in the top 5
How on Earth is Duncan Keith overrated? Have you watched the guy play? He's the best 2-way D in the game IMO. Can't say much about Petro because I haven't watched him much.

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Old
11-11-2013, 07:12 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
McDonagh has the hot offensive hand right now, among the D. I'm staying away from thinking this is permanent for a little while. Personally, I think there are stretches where Staal, Moore and Del Zotto could look this good on the powerplay.
IMO the thing with McDonagh is that he takes care of the puck better than those guys. I feel more comfortable with him trying to make plays and moving with the puck than I do with Staal, Moore, or Del Zotto (and Staal usually won't try anything fancy anyways)

Not that Moore or Del Zotto can't make those moves, but I think McDonagh's decision making is better and he knows not to hang onto the puck too long looking for a perfect play, but also how to make the good play to create a chance when needed.

I also think Torts' comments about McDonagh playing the power play are indicative of his coaching became quite overcautious with the Rangers. McD was in his 3rd year in the league and established as a top defenseman and Torts' is talking about how "wet behind the ears" McDonagh was and how much he had to learn...other teams give their young promising D a chance to work on the power play and most of them aren't even as good as McDonagh before they're given that responsibility.

Torts just got too conservative in a lot of ways IMO.

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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
yeah doughty isnt a special player like everyone makes him out to be.
He's a very good player...I think he has a long leash to do a lot of stuff without his coach getting on his case so you do see him jumping into the play a lot and attempting to make plays with the puck a lot, but his overall skills don't really stand out over someone like McDonagh...maybe his shot, since McDonagh's slapshot isn't anything to write home about, but he's showing a pretty good wrist shot.

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Old
11-11-2013, 07:36 AM
  #99
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Quote:
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IMO the thing with McDonagh is that he takes care of the puck better than those guys. I feel more comfortable with him trying to make plays and moving with the puck than I do with Staal, Moore, or Del Zotto (and Staal usually won't try anything fancy anyways) .
McDonagh is calm and very smart with the puck. Composure is an integral part of a good PP, aka, not last year. This is exactly why I wanted him on the PP. Not to mention, in the rare case he does make a goof, he's one of the best defensemen in the league at getting back from across the ice.

Hot or cold, he's still out option for the PP blue line, I think. Del Zotto has offensive skill, but also has the [occasional] composure of deer. Confidence/IQ are the backbone of a decent PP. McDonagh is a very fluid player, and it affects the whole unit.

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Old
11-11-2013, 08:07 AM
  #100
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McDonagh is calm and very smart with the puck. Composure is an integral part of a good PP, aka, not last year. This is exactly why I wanted him on the PP. Not to mention, in the rare case he does make a goof, he's one of the best defensemen in the league at getting back from across the ice.

Hot or cold, he's still out option for the PP blue line, I think. Del Zotto has offensive skill, but also has the [occasional] composure of deer. Confidence/IQ are the backbone of a decent PP. McDonagh is a very fluid player, and it affects the whole unit.
The bolded is exactly my thought, his ability to recover from a mistake is unreal.

I think he's been able to show his offensive abilities more because AV see's more in him and the coaching staff has really reduced his ES TOI/Game...

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