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The All-Purpose David Desharnais thread (post-Pressbox edition)

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Old
11-08-2013, 01:42 PM
  #51
Rosso Scuderia
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I don't know if DD understand this but if he wants to score a goal, he needs to put puck on the net.

4 straight games that he didn't register a shot on goal. He spent 01:03:45 of ice-time, generating no assist, no shot on goal and no hit. So basically, he is just skating around and do nothing. He could just throw away his stick after the face off and have the same stats.

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11-08-2013, 01:54 PM
  #52
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So basically, he is just skating around and do nothing. He could just throw away his stick after the face off and have the same stats.
Someone had to preserve Perry Turnbull's legacy.

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11-08-2013, 01:56 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
I don't know if DD understand this but if he wants to score a goal, he needs to put puck on the net.

4 straight games that he didn't register a shot on goal. He spent 01:03:45 of ice-time, generating no assist, no shot on goal and no hit. So basically, he is just skating around and do nothing. He could just throw away his stick after the face off and have the same stats.
He needs to follow AK's wisdom on this:

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11-08-2013, 02:35 PM
  #54
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I still don't know why Therrien hasn't tried once DD on the wing. I mean, we have 3 better centers than him and maybe a guy like Galchenyuk will help him. (Yes, I'm serious).
We're stuck with David, and I don't think he's a horrible player. I honestly think it's a matter of time before he gets some points, of course not on a 60pts /season pace.

Bourque-Galchenyuk-Desharnais

Try it, Michel!
He has. DD was on wing to Eller's C in the last part of the game before he was benched. The line, didn't look too bad either imo. I wouldn't mind trying that again, assuming the PGG line happens again (and the PGG line getting more favourable lines/shifts)

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11-08-2013, 02:35 PM
  #55
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After getting cut out of the line-up :

51 D. Desharnais C 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20% 0:00 0:00 15:11



He must go ASAP. After that it will be Bouillon/Murray they are terrible and cost games. Then Parros but im confident MT is only playing him because of injuries. Then we will have to take a look at Briere as a center and cut him if he sucks like he does on the RW.

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11-08-2013, 02:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
After getting cut out of the line-up :

51 D. Desharnais C 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20% 0:00 0:00 15:11



He must go ASAP. After that it will be Bouillon/Murray they are terrible and cost games. Then Parros but im confident MT is only playing him because of injuries. Then we will have to take a look at Briere as a center and cut him if he sucks like he does on the RW.
I think you got your priorities skewed. The cube and perhaps Murray are costing us games. DD, although ineffective, and maybe even useless, at least isn't the cause of us losing games...well, not compared to the Cube anyhow.

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11-08-2013, 07:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
I think you got your priorities skewed. The cube and perhaps Murray are costing us games. DD, although ineffective, and maybe even useless, at least isn't the cause of us losing games...well, not compared to the Cube anyhow.
A useless 15 minutes a game where the Habs do not generate any offence... you consider that not a cause of losing games?

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11-08-2013, 07:58 PM
  #58
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I don't understand this guy. I was watching him last night and he seems like a completly different player than he was two years ago. Everything about him is different.

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11-08-2013, 08:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
A useless 15 minutes a game where the Habs do not generate any offence... you consider that not a cause of losing games?
To be fair, the concept of "opportunity cost" is an advanced one, an abstract one, and I think the average Joe Blow on the street wouldn't get it. You should not be shaking your head. If anything, people should be shaking their head at you because you are (incorrectly) assuming that this is a concept most people would understand.

pepperMonkey,

David Desharnais is -2 after 16 games. He gets good wingers, He has 1 point. He has very easy minutes, his 5on5 Corsi Rel QoC is -0.500, compared to 0.727 for Eller and +1.269 for Plekanec. He also plays 1:31 of PP time per game, for 24:28 of total power play time.

Given these situations, even if Desharnais was a completely average, vanilla player who contributed nothing more than filling up space at average league skill and average league salary, he would have 5-10 points. He is playing in the 15 minutes a game where the team needs to score, because the other 45 minutes are harder. Therefore, if Desharnais is producing anything less than 5-10 points, he is detrimental to the team. Further, he should be ~+3, not -2.

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11-08-2013, 08:34 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
To be fair, the concept of "opportunity cost" is an advanced one, an abstract one, and I think the average Joe Blow on the street wouldn't get it. You should not be shaking your head. If anything, people should be shaking their head at you because you are (incorrectly) assuming that this is a concept most people would understand.

pepperMonkey,

David Desharnais is -2 after 16 games. He gets good wingers, He has 1 point. He has very easy minutes, his 5on5 Corsi Rel QoC is -0.500, compared to 0.727 for Eller and +1.269 for Plekanec. He also plays 1:31 of PP time per game, for 24:28 of total power play time.

Given these situations, even if Desharnais was a completely average, vanilla player who contributed nothing more than filling up space at average league skill and average league salary, he would have 5-10 points. He is playing in the 15 minutes a game where the team needs to score, because the other 45 minutes are harder. Therefore, if Desharnais is producing anything less than 5-10 points, he is detrimental to the team. Further, he should be ~+3, not -2.
Although I agree with you theoretically. In reality, the Habs replace Desharnais by White in the lineup. I don't see the improvement there. White is a headless chicken defensively and can't pin the other team down in their own territory either. Although Desharnais isn't producing offensively. He still nearly doesn't give as many quality scoring chances.

and Rel QoC is pretty much garbage as far as I'm concerned

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Old
11-08-2013, 08:40 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Although I agree with you theoretically. In reality, the Habs replace Desharnais by White in the lineup. I don't see the improvement there. White is a headless chicken defensively and can't pin the other team down in their own territory either. Although Desharnais isn't producing offensively. He still nearly doesn't give as many quality scoring chances.
Who said anything about White? I said that a player of average league skill would produce 5-10 points given Desharnais' privileges, I wrote nothing about White. White is another player that needs to go.

Aside from that, you did not understand what the second part of my post was about. Read it again and keep reading it until it makes sense.

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11-08-2013, 08:43 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
He has. DD was on wing to Eller's C in the last part of the game before he was benched. The line, didn't look too bad either imo. I wouldn't mind trying that again, assuming the PGG line happens again (and the PGG line getting more favourable lines/shifts)
I agree, mathman was correct about murray, he,s terrible.

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Old
11-08-2013, 08:44 PM
  #63
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I agree, mathman was correct about murray, he,s terrible.
Mathman steals my glory once again!

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Old
11-08-2013, 09:01 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Who said anything about White? I said that a player of average league skill would produce 5-10 points given Desharnais' privileges, I wrote nothing about White. White is another player that needs to go.

Aside from that, you did not understand what the second part of my post was about. Read it again and keep reading it until it makes sense.
I understand what you mean by that Desharnais actually costs the Habs games by not producing at the level an average player would. That said, here in the context of the Montreal Canadiens, the next best player at the position is Ryan White. If Desharnais wasn't playing those minutes, though some would go to Plekanec, Eller and Galchenyuk moving at center, the rest would go to White. Habs won't roll with only 3 centermen after what we saw against St. Louis. They'll need another centerman at some point anyhow. All I pointed out was that we're in the middle of the season and you won't simply find your average replacement over Desharnais at this point. He's the best option left (or at least minimizes losses over other options like White).

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Old
11-08-2013, 09:09 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
I understand what you mean by that Desharnais actually costs the Habs games by not producing at the level an average player would. That said, here in the context of the Montreal Canadiens, the next best player at the position is Ryan White. If Desharnais wasn't playing those minutes, though some would go to Plekanec, Eller and Galchenyuk moving at center, the rest would go to White. Habs won't roll with only 3 centermen after what we saw against St. Louis. They'll need another centerman at some point anyhow. All I pointed out was that we're in the middle of the season and you won't simply find your average replacement over Desharnais at this point. He's the best option left (or at least minimizes losses over other options like White).
There is another centreman. Galchenyuk. But he really can't be used there until the other top lines are getting points consistently.

The offense has been abysmal recently. Until this changes, I guess we can only hope Price continues to play well.

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Old
11-08-2013, 09:09 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
I understand what you mean by that Desharnais actually costs the Habs games by not producing at the level an average player would. That said, here in the context of the Montreal Canadiens, the next best player at the position is Ryan White. If Desharnais wasn't playing those minutes, though some would go to Plekanec, Eller and Galchenyuk moving at center, the rest would go to White. Habs won't roll with only 3 centermen after what we saw against St. Louis. They'll need another centerman at some point anyhow. All I pointed out was that we're in the middle of the season and you won't simply find your average replacement over Desharnais at this point. He's the best option left (or at least minimizes losses over other options like White).
Ideally, if there's benefit in playing plekanec and eller more(to a degree, there should be unless it's fatigue related), just play Desharnais less and keep white in his 4th line spot.

DD's head on a stick won't help the team unless they have an alternative, they don't.

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Old
11-08-2013, 09:19 PM
  #67
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There is another centreman. Galchenyuk. But he really can't be used there until the other top lines are getting points consistently.

The offense has been abysmal recently. Until this changes, I guess we can only hope Price continues to play well.
That's what I said. As much as I'd love Galchenyuk to play regular minutes at center. We saw in the game against St. Louis that the Habs can't roll with only 3 centermen (being Plekanec, Eller, and Galchenyuk). However, I'd be more than willing to have Galchenyuk develop at center for the next year or two and have him grow there (even with the mistakes that will come). Those minutes will be of much greater value to the Habs than having Desharnais playing that much time.

So, for the fourth line spot, Desharnais is still the least bad option the Habs have at this moment. Hopefully he gets his game back on track. On average players perform worse in the first year of a new contract, just like they tend to overperform in the last year of a contract. Hopefully, he does like Plekanec and comes back strong before long.

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Old
11-08-2013, 10:45 PM
  #68
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I agree Murray's been ****...

but at least put sprinkles on the ****, inside of two scoops of steaming ****.

by sprinkles I mean a fast dman so he can just clear the crease in his own end, and never touch a puck.

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Old
11-08-2013, 10:54 PM
  #69
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That's what I said. As much as I'd love Galchenyuk to play regular minutes at center. We saw in the game against St. Louis that the Habs can't roll with only 3 centermen (being Plekanec, Eller, and Galchenyuk). However, I'd be more than willing to have Galchenyuk develop at center for the next year or two and have him grow there (even with the mistakes that will come). Those minutes will be of much greater value to the Habs than having Desharnais playing that much time.

So, for the fourth line spot, Desharnais is still the least bad option the Habs have at this moment. Hopefully he gets his game back on track. On average players perform worse in the first year of a new contract, just like they tend to overperform in the last year of a contract. Hopefully, he does like Plekanec and comes back strong before long.
The problem is that DD can't ever work on a 4th line. He has absolutely no 2 way play. I'd give him 40 games and if there is no improvement, waive him. If no one picks him up and we're playoff bound, just buy him out if a 5th rounder can't be had.

LeBlanc is really working. Since he was sent down, 8 points in 4 games.

Huge improvement over last year. Hopefully he can play bottom six. This allows either Moen or Prust to move up when necessary.

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11-08-2013, 11:15 PM
  #70
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The problem is that DD can't ever work on a 4th line. He has absolutely no 2 way play. I'd give him 40 games and if there is no improvement, waive him. If no one picks him up and we're playoff bound, just buy him out if a 5th rounder can't be had.

LeBlanc is really working. Since he was sent down, 8 points in 4 games.

Huge improvement over last year. Hopefully he can play bottom six. This allows either Moen or Prust to move up when necessary.
I'm open to Leblanc taking his spot, that said. Leblanc will have to prove he can play regularly in the NHL before that. Although Desharnais doesn't block shots and what have you, at least he can play a puck possession game. Defense isn't all about playing in your own end.

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Old
11-09-2013, 06:08 AM
  #71
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Bournival playing great alongside Plekanec, get points on the board, create chances, use his speed, etc...

gets demoted to DD's line... and become invisible.

So YES, DD not getting points can cost games, as he becomes a black hole offensively for anyone playing next to him, even the ones who were producing before playing on his line...

not blaming MT for putting Patches with Plekanec, it's about time #14 get some of our best wingers anyway, but it pretty much guaranteed a productive Bournival would become unproductive...

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11-10-2013, 10:18 AM
  #72
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A useless 15 minutes a game where the Habs do not generate any offence... you consider that not a cause of losing games?
Cube gift wrapping the puck to the opposition on a daily basis (heck, multiple times a game), leading to a goal in every other game, I think, causes more loses than a totally useless DD not generating offence.

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11-10-2013, 10:27 AM
  #73
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To be fair, the concept of "opportunity cost" is an advanced one, an abstract one, and I think the average Joe Blow on the street wouldn't get it. You should not be shaking your head. If anything, people should be shaking their head at you because you are (incorrectly) assuming that this is a concept most people would understand.

pepperMonkey,

David Desharnais is -2 after 16 games. He gets good wingers, He has 1 point. He has very easy minutes, his 5on5 Corsi Rel QoC is -0.500, compared to 0.727 for Eller and +1.269 for Plekanec. He also plays 1:31 of PP time per game, for 24:28 of total power play time.

Given these situations, even if Desharnais was a completely average, vanilla player who contributed nothing more than filling up space at average league skill and average league salary, he would have 5-10 points. He is playing in the 15 minutes a game where the team needs to score, because the other 45 minutes are harder. Therefore, if Desharnais is producing anything less than 5-10 points, he is detrimental to the team. Further, he should be ~+3, not -2.
What we are talking about is the amount of damage caused by DD being useless on the ice vs Cube gift wrapping the puck to the opposition, directly leading to goals. If a line that doesn't score during a game is considered a cause of losing a game then there is a whole whack of players who are consistently losing games for their teams...heck, every player would be considered causing loses for their team because the grand majority of players don't get points per game. Yes, DD not generating any offence does mean the team loses some games, no question. But Cube being directly responsible for gift wrapping goals to the opponent, I think, causes way more loses of games.
Now I understand DD's uselessness is ALL DD's fault while Cubes causing so much damage is more about MT's bench management (+ injuries), but still, as of now, Cube is causing more harm than DD (not that, that's saying much considering both of them are dragging the team into a black hole but still...).

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Old
11-10-2013, 10:45 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
After getting cut out of the line-up :

51 D. Desharnais C 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20% 0:00 0:00 15:11



He must go ASAP. After that it will be Bouillon/Murray they are terrible and cost games. Then Parros but im confident MT is only playing him because of injuries. Then we will have to take a look at Briere as a center and cut him if he sucks like he does on the RW.
4 games in a row of donuts, hope he does SOMETHING today.

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Old
11-10-2013, 11:00 AM
  #75
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Ideally, if there's benefit in playing plekanec and eller more(to a degree, there should be unless it's fatigue related), just play Desharnais less and keep white in his 4th line spot.

DD's head on a stick won't help the team unless they have an alternative, they don't.
They have plenty of alternatives once the injured players come back though, so this is when we'll see if they can adjust. Dumont and Leblanc are natural centers, and Prust has been used in that role before. Same for Briere. I'm assuming at least one of them could fill in at center with limited ice time on a 4th line and not look out of place. Then there are trades. Defensively responsible 4th liners are not a hard find nor do they cost a ton. This is all assuming they are ready to play Galchenyuk at center, which I think they should, with the same kind of easy minutes Desharnais is getting. He won't look any worse than Desharnais and actually has upside.

Besides, it's not like Desharnais is so good defensively that you can't replace him with a player who doesn't yet fully master the defensive game of the center position. He needs to get the opportunity to grow in this role sooner than later.

Pacioretty Plekanec Gionta
Bournival Eller Gallagher
Bourque Galchenyuk Briere
Moen Prust White

I don't see how you can insert Desharnais in this lineup, even if he starts producing a little, and not weaken the team. This top-9 is composed of better and more effective hockey players. I don't see how this can end well for Desharnais unfortunatelly unless he has some kind of miracle turnaround.

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