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How Many Players Now Regret the Tortorella Firing?

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Old
11-08-2013, 10:58 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The numbers are nice, but they don't tell the full story. Dubinsky went from being pretty much untouchable to being passed over by Callahan, Hagelin and Stepan with the likes of Kreider and Miller in waiting.

The fact is Dubinksy made Dubinsky disposable.
He really did. How quickly people forget how ineffective he was out there. He'd routinely go like 10 games without a point.

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11-08-2013, 11:06 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Tortorella did interviews with Mike Francesa. Whenever asked about the PP, he would simply chalk it up to not having the personnel. No "shot from the point".
It was all BS. I said at the time, you do not need great personnel to have a decent PP. Instead their PP under Tortorella was abysmal. These are the same players that Tortorella coached, yet the PP looks MUCH better this year. It was a coaching issue.

With the amount of PP opportunities they had vs the Bruins, had they had this year's PP, they likely would have beaten them.
Torts is a master of excuses. I listened to most of the Francesa and Michael Kay interviews. It was frustrating hearing the coach of your favorite team constantly go on about how the team isn't quite ready to make the next step. It was like he was buying himself time in his job. He surprisingly did the same thing at the Nucks press conference when he was introduced. You have a veteran team with the Nucks. Their window is closing.

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11-08-2013, 11:13 AM
  #153
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I have read through alot of this, I prefer the hockey the Rangers have played since they have made it back from the trip from hell.

This is a very talented team with very good D who can make up for mistakes. The trip and the early injuries were must bigger issues than AV's style.

Good coaches with good talent will show up over extended periods. A small sample size with extenuating circumstances can skew the long term outlook, yes. This team plus a healthy Nash in Dec\January and more time together will be fine.

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Old
11-08-2013, 11:19 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I wish I could live in such a fantasy world, I really do.

Where you can challenge the reality of winning 2 playoffs series for the first time since 1997, and follow it up with a gemstone fairy tale like this:

We all hope and pray that, if they make it that far for the 2nd time in almost 2 decades, they win in a way that is up to your expectations.
Oh you live in a fantasy world. Its just a different world. Trust me.

The playoff system is completely different and our division is absolutely awful. If you don't think they have a shot at the ECF then I don't know what to tell you. I do not think there is a single team in the Metro division the Rangers can't beat in a 7 game series. There isn't a team that even resembles a powerhouse.

Looking at the division, Pitt is probably the only other team that could even be considered a lock to make the playoffs under the old system. Thats how bad it is. And Pitt, baring several moves, is not a powerhouse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap
This team is probably closer to finishing 5th to 8th in the conference in points than it is in the top 4. I disagree that injuries is what is holding us back from another ECF. Even when healthy, this roster would have a very difficult time beating Pitt. Wednesday's win doesn't change that.

There are still a lot of question marks on this roster. Hagelin and Kreider have played well but can they keep it up? When is Nash coming back and how will he play when he returns? Can Callahan stay healthy? Brassard, Pouliot, and Zucc are inconsistent and streaky, can they be relied upon? As good as McDonagh has been, our other defensemen have been pretty bad offensively. Another thing that concerns me is whether the Rangers have enough grit up and down the roster to battle through the playoffs.

So far as 2012 goes, regardless of the fact they didn't dominate as much as some would have liked, it still remains our best regular season and the furthest we have gone in the playoffs in the Sather era. The expectation that they could have built on that or at least replicated that is not unreasonable.
The Rangers play the majority of their games against awful Metro Division opponents. They could very easily end up top 4 in points. They started 2-6 and are only 4 points behind the 4th place team.

Not that it matters. They just need to end up 2nd in the division to draw an easier 1st round opponent.

As for Pittsburgh I think they are beatable. Unless they make upgrades on defense and and in net they are going to have to fight to get wins. They've looked human in the playoffs for a few seasons. Since they won the cup they have had as many series wins (three) as the Rangers.

You are right about the Rangers have a lot to prove. Personally I think this is a more talented and more mature team than our '11-'12 ECF one, and I think AV is a better coach. They need to get and stay healthy and continue to grow as a team. And of course it would help if Pitt didn't trade for a Norris and Vezina winner.

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Old
11-08-2013, 11:31 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The numbers are nice, but they don't tell the full story. Dubinsky went from being pretty much untouchable to being passed over by Callahan, Hagelin and Stepan with the likes of Kreider and Miller in waiting.

The fact is Dubinksy made Dubinsky disposable.
That's a fair opinion. But if you assume that Dubi wasn't traded, and played the way he did in Columbus last year with us instead, then don't you think he'd be right back up there as one of our core guys? Maybe not at the same level as Cally, but I think he would have regained a lot of the positive sentiment that he had from the fans before 11-12.

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11-08-2013, 11:40 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The numbers are nice, but they don't tell the full story. Dubinsky went from being pretty much untouchable to being passed over by Callahan, Hagelin and Stepan with the likes of Kreider and Miller in waiting.

The fact is Dubinksy made Dubinsky disposable.
Dubinsky also priced himself out simply by getting older and more experienced.

Teams are more dynamic entities in a cap world.

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Old
11-08-2013, 11:47 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
That's a fair opinion. But if you assume that Dubi wasn't traded, and played the way he did in Columbus last year with us instead, then don't you think he'd be right back up there as one of our core guys? Maybe not at the same level as Cally, but I think he would have regained a lot of the positive sentiment that he had from the fans before 11-12.
No, I'm not ready to say that. I still take Stepan, Callahan, Hegelin and Kreider over him.

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11-08-2013, 12:14 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
Because it's a new coach with a brand new system who had to undo a ton of damage under Tortorella who almost destroyed the career of Krieder, smothered the offensive talents of almost everyone on the team, and worked them into the ground


Because that's what fans do. Criticism is expected but what we saw around here for the first month was totally uncalled for. And what the org has done - how about throw as much money as possible towards free agents and not penny pinch. That was definitely misguided but in the past 3 years or so Slats has worked his ass off to get smart trades done to make this team better. Guy gets no credit and no respect for the moves he's made. All you heard around here was the team has no talent and no identity. The talent thing is a ridiculous comment, and the identity thing - well that comes with the coach and we're well on our way.

But above all, I don't see how you can excuse anyone who doubted Lunqvist the way they did, they should not be calling themselves Ranger fans
So now your extolling the virtues of the "Teflon GM"? Do you really believe he has worked his ass off making this team better during the 13 years, 6 coaches and countless rebuilds that have taken place under his reign? Do you really believe that this team has enough talent, size and toughness as presently constructed to win a cup? As far as Lundqvist is concerned, I've said it before and I'll say it again; he put up his best numbers in the defensive oriented system that was played under Torts and even Renny and when it comes time to negotiating his contract, I wouldn't give him more than 5-6 years @ $7-7.5 mil, take it or leave it!
If he really wants to play and win a cup here, he should be more than willing to accept somewhat of a hometown discount.

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Old
11-08-2013, 05:59 PM
  #159
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Once again, I don't regret we canned that arrogant __________ fill in the blank.

He held Kreider back, wrongly, and now I have the last freakin laugh.

Bite me, Torts.

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11-08-2013, 06:47 PM
  #160
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Dubinsky at 2-3 mil is an AWESOME 3rd liner. Dubinsky at 5 mil is an overpaid 2nd line tweener.

either way, too much money for him.

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Old
11-09-2013, 12:29 AM
  #161
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I have to hand it to the Bleed Ranger Blues and Drews of the world. If I was so negative about the team all the time I'd probably not post here. Whenever the Rangers lose I cringe at the negativity. I can't imagine having EVERY ****ing post be negative. These two haven't said one positive thing about the team since I've been here. I don't know why they post here. Just to dwell on their negativity and spread some of it to everyone? I mean, I can't understand wanting to post on a message board and having 100% negative stuff. What's the point? Misery loves company?

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11-09-2013, 12:51 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Once again, I don't regret we canned that arrogant __________ fill in the blank.

He held Kreider back, wrongly, and now I have the last freakin laugh.

Bite me, Torts.
The only person who held back Kreider was Kreider. Not Torts. Don't let your love for CK get in the way of being objective. He was horrible defensively, and still looks a little bad out there sometimes. It wasn't Adolf "Torts" Hitler.

And how do you have the last laugh? It's not like you're the one sending Kreider to and from Hartford. Torts doesn't read HFNYR, so he doesn't even know you're laughing.


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11-09-2013, 01:18 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by BlessThisMess513 View Post
The only person who held back Kreider was Kreider. Not Torts. Don't let your love for CK get in the way of being objective. He was horrible defensively, and still looks a little bad out there sometimes. It wasn't Adolf "Torts" Hitler.

And how do you have the last laugh? It's not like you're the one sending Kreider to and from Hartford. Torts doesn't read HFNYR, so he doesn't even know you're laughing.
I was never informed of this

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Old
11-09-2013, 02:58 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Why should we have faith? What has this organization done over the past 13 years to earn the benefit of the doubt? The team went through its usual offseason overhaul and they brought in players with question marks Pouliot and D Moore most notably.

And with the way the team started out, why should they have gotten the benefit of the doubt? It's taken a lot to get the team to where it is now. And even now, they've really only had two good wins against quality teams (LA and PIT).
Because its good for the team. Nothing good will come from the fans turning on a new coach after 10 games.

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11-09-2013, 03:36 AM
  #165
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It took some growing pains but I don't think I saw our D chip in on O as much as I have this season. Maybe it's because it's not only Girardi getting bulk of the work (And his shooting skills are pathetic at best: shots from the point were mostly wristers).

Excluding the first few games that consisted of a few growing pains and our players going down with injuries:

I am seeing a team that isn't getting pinned as much in their own defensive zone.

I am seeing a team that has players park in front of the goalie instead of behind the net. (That always pissed me off, especially on the PP).

I am seeing a team that isn't passing themselves into oblivion without getting a shot in front of the goalie.

I am seeing a team..that is finally taking slapshots and one-timers! (I always hated that with Torts).

I am seeing a coach who allows players to remedy their mistakes instead of being inconsistent with benching players.

All of that without our #1 goalscorer, points getter?

I'll take it! And I bet there are a few players who are overjoyed with a guy like AV behind the bench vs. Torts, not only because the former isn't a drill sergeant like the latter.

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11-09-2013, 07:30 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Oh you live in a fantasy world. Its just a different world. Trust me.

The playoff system is completely different and our division is absolutely awful. If you don't think they have a shot at the ECF then I don't know what to tell you. I do not think there is a single team in the Metro division the Rangers can't beat in a 7 game series. There isn't a team that even resembles a powerhouse.

Looking at the division, Pitt is probably the only other team that could even be considered a lock to make the playoffs under the old system. Thats how bad it is. And Pitt, baring several moves, is not a powerhouse.




The Rangers play the majority of their games against awful Metro Division opponents. They could very easily end up top 4 in points. They started 2-6 and are only 4 points behind the 4th place team.

Not that it matters. They just need to end up 2nd in the division to draw an easier 1st round opponent.

As for Pittsburgh I think they are beatable. Unless they make upgrades on defense and and in net they are going to have to fight to get wins. They've looked human in the playoffs for a few seasons. Since they won the cup they have had as many series wins (three) as the Rangers.

You are right about the Rangers have a lot to prove. Personally I think this is a more talented and more mature team than our '11-'12 ECF one, and I think AV is a better coach. They need to get and stay healthy and continue to grow as a team. And of course it would help if Pitt didn't trade for a Norris and Vezina winner.
As long as Fleury is there, they remain a lesser threat.

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11-09-2013, 07:32 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
No, I'm not ready to say that. I still take Stepan, Callahan, Hegelin and Kreider over him.
Stepan and Callahan, yes, even though it would be nice to see Callahan not break something for a change.

Still prefer Dubi to Hagelin.

While I assume Kreider will pass Dubi, so far, it is not a done deal.

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11-09-2013, 07:36 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
Once again, I don't regret we canned that arrogant __________ fill in the blank.

He held Kreider back, wrongly, and now I have the last freakin laugh.

Bite me, Torts.
Kreider held himself back. Players are responsible for themselves.

To believe otherwise is to say that Torts is responsible for Stepan's success.

Coaches coach the players on strategy and system. Ability is up to the players and until recently Kreider looked like an idiot on the ice. He had some obvious tools but seemed lost.

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11-09-2013, 07:40 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
It took some growing pains but I don't think I saw our D chip in on O as much as I have this season. Maybe it's because it's not only Girardi getting bulk of the work (And his shooting skills are pathetic at best: shots from the point were mostly wristers).

Excluding the first few games that consisted of a few growing pains and our players going down with injuries:

I am seeing a team that isn't getting pinned as much in their own defensive zone.

I am seeing a team that has players park in front of the goalie instead of behind the net. (That always pissed me off, especially on the PP).

I am seeing a team that isn't passing themselves into oblivion without getting a shot in front of the goalie.

I am seeing a team..that is finally taking slapshots and one-timers! (I always hated that with Torts).

I am seeing a coach who allows players to remedy their mistakes instead of being inconsistent with benching players.

All of that without our #1 goalscorer, points getter?

I'll take it! And I bet there are a few players who are overjoyed with a guy like AV behind the bench vs. Torts, not only because the former isn't a drill sergeant like the latter.
Players sour on all coaches after a couple seasons. That is a universal.

The biggest thing I am happy about with AV and the one thing I never understood under Torts, was using McDonagh on the power play.

Because of this new usage, I expect McDonagh to be in the conversation for the Norris Trophy. He is arguably the third best defenseman on this team in 50 years.

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11-09-2013, 10:09 AM
  #170
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Yeah that would be a great series. Just the regular season game at MSG this year is in crazy demand. Tortorella is great to start, what you have to keep your eye on is how the team responds long term. He usually eventually wears out his welcome - media, players, & fans included
Well, here's the thing this year from what I have noticed he's got a good blend of the NYR persona asking for the most he can get while really remaining calm like he was during his Tampa days. Now will this last? We will see...but like with everything comes experience. I think Torts took what he had with NYR for granted. He kept on preaching that as a Coach you look back what you could have done better and he said himself that he realized he had to change if he were to land another gig.

He has a great opportunity not just this year, but a few years down the road. Kassian has really started to show his true potential on a more consistent basis. If Torts can can keep this persona, which I think he will down the road and in the future, we have a great coach on our hands.

The one thing that I disliked with AV was when he called Kesler out year using the media, Kesler made a remark kind of indicated to me that AV had lost the room...now has AV stiffened up? Because if he has then you guys will love him as a coach as well, but hopefully he will create a country club feel like he did here for you guys. the Rangers have always been a hard working team, it would be a shame to see that go away.

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11-09-2013, 10:19 AM
  #171
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Well, here's the thing this year from what I have noticed he's got a good blend of the NYR persona asking for the most he can get while really remaining calm like he was during his Tampa days. Now will this last? We will see...but like with everything comes experience. I think Torts took what he had with NYR for granted. He kept on preaching that as a Coach you look back what you could have done better and he said himself that he realized he had to change if he were to land another gig.

He has a great opportunity not just this year, but a few years down the road. Kassian has really started to show his true potential on a more consistent basis. If Torts can can keep this persona, which I think he will down the road and in the future, we have a great coach on our hands.

The one thing that I disliked with AV was when he called Kesler out year using the media, Kesler made a remark kind of indicated to me that AV had lost the room...now has AV stiffened up? Because if he has then you guys will love him as a coach as well, but hopefully he will create a country club feel like he did here for you guys. the Rangers have always been a hard working team, it would be a shame to see that go away.
Well early in the season it looked like it WAS a country club atmosphere. The Rangers "seemed" to give up when facing adversity. However, I think it was hard enough playing a new system with a lot of injuries, doing that while playing amazing teams with momentum is all the harder. Plus out most important player was playing like **** and was injured. Now it seems like we handle momentum better than we did with Torts. We'd start off slowly pretty often but be able to flip the switch. Somehow they're getting motivated.

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11-09-2013, 10:33 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I have to hand it to the Bleed Ranger Blues and Drews of the world. If I was so negative about the team all the time I'd probably not post here. Whenever the Rangers lose I cringe at the negativity. I can't imagine having EVERY ****ing post be negative. These two haven't said one positive thing about the team since I've been here. I don't know why they post here. Just to dwell on their negativity and spread some of it to everyone? I mean, I can't understand wanting to post on a message board and having 100% negative stuff. What's the point? Misery loves company?
Not necessarily true my friend. Read on and I'm sure you'll find a tidbit of positivity every now and then sprinkled in with a generous dose of objectivity!

I'm looking forward to a 9-7 record after the Debbie's game; on that note, have a wonderful weekend!

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11-09-2013, 10:35 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by BlessThisMess513 View Post
The only person who held back Kreider was Kreider. Not Torts. Don't let your love for CK get in the way of being objective. He was horrible defensively, and still looks a little bad out there sometimes. It wasn't Adolf "Torts" Hitler.

And how do you have the last laugh? It's not like you're the one sending Kreider to and from Hartford. Torts doesn't read HFNYR, so he doesn't even know you're laughing.
Bingo! I firmly believe that Torts tough love has helped Kreider in no uncertain terms.

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11-09-2013, 10:36 AM
  #174
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Not necessarily true my friend. Read on and I'm sure you'll find a tidbit of positivity every now and then sprinkled in with a generous dose of objectivity!

I'm looking forward to a 9-7 record after the Debbie's game; on that note, have a wonderful weekend!
Damn, that's the most positive I've seen you, the league will take away one of our losses?

But anyway, unless you think your objectivity is the objective truth and 99% of the board is objectively wrong, calling it objectivity is a bit presumptuous.

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11-09-2013, 11:27 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Don't waste your precious time. Its nearly impossible to argue with those that look at each season - and sometimes each game - in a vacuum.
What about looking at each objectively? It's not possible to get an accurate view of things simply by looking at the past nor is it going to be accurate if you only look at the present in a vacuum.

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