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Snider on struggling Flyers: 'Never seen anything like this'

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Old
11-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #51
LegionOfDoom91
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Originally Posted by skoods View Post
Saying that you want someone to die so that your team can perform better on the ice is asinine, ignorant, and cruel.
Where did I say that? The poster said we should get rid of Snider & I pointed out the only way he's going out is when he passes away. I didn't actively hope for it, I was just pointing out the obvious, sorry if it wasn't politically correct enough for you guys.

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11-09-2013, 12:59 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by skoods View Post
We fans like to forget that players, owners, coaches, etc are all human beings with loved ones and family. They're not just pawns in your never ending quest to get your morale boosted by your city winning a championship.

Saying that you want someone to die so that your team can perform better on the ice is asinine, ignorant, and cruel.
Yes they are pawns in our moral quest for victory. The amount of money they take home from us certainly validates that point. I think after 40 years+ of sellouts and league high merch sales we have the right to call for peoples heads. Players have changed, coaches and managers. It fair to question the approach the only constant brings. Yes it's fair to assume we are doomed until he goes away. An we all know he isn't going away alive. As long as he lives he will control the flyers. As long as he controls the flyers he will do so as if it is 1974. Most of this fan base now was far from being born the last time they won. Yes the impatience is fair. Very fair.

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11-09-2013, 01:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Yes they are pawns in our moral quest for victory. The amount of money they take home from us certainly validates that point. I think after 40 years+ of sellouts and league high merch sales we have the right to call for peoples heads. Players have changed, coaches and managers. It fair to question the approach the only constant brings. Yes it's fair to assume we are doomed until he goes away. An we all know he isn't going away alive. As long as he lives he will control the flyers. As long as he controls the flyers he will do so as if it is 1974. Most of this fan base now was far from being born the last time they won. Yes the impatience is fair. Very fair.
this team is nothing like the 70s flyers. the league is nothing like the 70s. ed Snider is not even close to al Davis. any one who thinks that is clueless.

winning a title is not easy, there is no way to assure it. we have been to as many conference finals as anyone the last 20 years. what more can you realistically expect.

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11-09-2013, 03:19 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
this team is nothing like the 70s flyers. the league is nothing like the 70s. ed Snider is not even close to al Davis. any one who thinks that is clueless.

winning a title is not easy, there is no way to assure it. we have been to as many conference finals as anyone the last 20 years. what more can you realistically expect.
I don't comment much on here, if at all. But I really don't give the flyers any more excuses at this point. The whole conference final/stanley cup final thing is a farce.

Since 1992, they have been to the cup finals twice, and lost both times.
They have been to the conference finals 6 times( '95, '97, 2000, '04, '08, and '10), and are 2-4 in those series.

Detroit has been to the finals 6 times, and have won three of them.
Colorado has the same amount of cup final appearances as the flyers, and have won both. Chicago is 2-1 in cup final trips.
New Jersey has 3 championships, and 4 conference final appearances.

I wasn't alive when the flyers won their last cup. Being "competitive" means nothing to me at this point. They need to either learn how to become a better run organization, or they will quickly run out of fan base that will continue to sit around and wait, all the while reminiscing about championships they weren't even alive to see with their own eyes.

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11-09-2013, 03:48 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by the deaninator View Post
I don't comment much on here, if at all. But I really don't give the flyers any more excuses at this point. The whole conference final/stanley cup final thing is a farce.

Since 1992, they have been to the cup finals twice, and lost both times.
They have been to the conference finals 6 times( '95, '97, 2000, '04, '08, and '10), and are 2-4 in those series.

Detroit has been to the finals 6 times, and have won three of them.
Colorado has the same amount of cup final appearances as the flyers, and have won both. Chicago is 2-1 in cup final trips.
New Jersey has 3 championships, and 4 conference final appearances.

I wasn't alive when the flyers won their last cup. Being "competitive" means nothing to me at this point. They need to either learn how to become a better run organization, or they will quickly run out of fan base that will continue to sit around and wait, all the while reminiscing about championships they weren't even alive to see with their own eyes.
Nope, this city is built off band wagon fans (see the Phillies over the last few years till now) as long as they're competitive people will still show up & then there's people who are just loyal regardless of how rough the times are.

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11-09-2013, 04:09 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by the deaninator View Post
I don't comment much on here, if at all. But I really don't give the flyers any more excuses at this point. The whole conference final/stanley cup final thing is a farce.

Since 1992, they have been to the cup finals twice, and lost both times.
They have been to the conference finals 6 times( '95, '97, 2000, '04, '08, and '10), and are 2-4 in those series.

Detroit has been to the finals 6 times, and have won three of them.
Colorado has the same amount of cup final appearances as the flyers, and have won both. Chicago is 2-1 in cup final trips.
New Jersey has 3 championships, and 4 conference final appearances.

I wasn't alive when the flyers won their last cup. Being "competitive" means nothing to me at this point. They need to either learn how to become a better run organization, or they will quickly run out of fan base that will continue to sit around and wait, all the while reminiscing about championships they weren't even alive to see with their own eyes.

I am one of those that will be a fan forever and the fans that leave aren't real fans to me. You stay with your team regardless of how they are doing.

Having said that, I can understand your frustration but there is a lot more to it than just how the organization is run. To me, the Flyers have been unsuccessful in winning it all because of bad luck (injuries, every team we lost to in the finals has been a dynasty or won multiple championships at the time), and awful goaltending. When you see games like today when the team tries hard they look so much better. If Mason continues to play like he has, at least we've got the goaltending to get it done. TBD though.

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11-09-2013, 04:09 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
this team is nothing like the 70s flyers. the league is nothing like the 70s. ed Snider is not even close to al Davis. any one who thinks that is clueless.

winning a title is not easy, there is no way to assure it. we have been to as many conference finals as anyone the last 20 years. what more can you realistically expect.
Realistically expectations? A Stanley cup. Just 1.

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11-09-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Nope, this city is built off band wagon fans (see the Phillies over the last few years till now) as long as they're competitive people will still show up & then there's people who are just loyal regardless of how rough the times are.

I disagree. At least when it comes to Eagles and Flyers fans. I can't say the same for the Phillies or Sixers. No matter how bad the Eagles and Flyers are, fans always support the team and show up to games.

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11-09-2013, 04:18 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
I disagree. At least when it comes to Eagles and Flyers fans. I can't say the same for the Phillies or Sixers. No matter how bad the Eagles and Flyers are, fans always support the team and show up to games.
The Eagles are a different case. Football is king in America not many teams have attendance trouble at least not in major cities regardless of what the on the field product is like, plus there's only 8 games, & mostly on Sundays where people would go just for the tailgate alone.

The Flyers have never had a period of time where they were really bad for a couple of seasons, there was the early 90's but Lindros came in between those years getting the excitement back regardless of what the outcome on the ice where. I can't really say for certain Flyers fans would be loyal when they haven't experienced much dark years.

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11-09-2013, 04:21 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
I disagree. At least when it comes to Eagles and Flyers fans. I can't say the same for the Phillies or Sixers. No matter how bad the Eagles and Flyers are, fans always support the team and show up to games.
You can't really say that about the Flyers because they havent had multiple seasons of suckage in awhile

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11-09-2013, 04:31 PM
  #61
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That's true. Let's hope it never happens!!!

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11-09-2013, 06:34 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Realistically expectations? A Stanley cup. Just 1.
Everybody wants to win. That it hasn't happened since the '70s is not necessarily an indictment on Snider and/or any of the GMs. If you want to measure success solely by recency of winning the Cup, then yes, Ed Snider sucks. But if you want to measure it as consistently contending for the Cup, then Ed Snider is easily a top 3 owner in the NHL.

Either way, I prefer looking at individual seasons separately, i.e. in '80 there was the blown offside call (plus the fact that the Islanders were a burgeoning dynasty.) '85 and '87 they ran into Gretzky and co at their peak. The management clearly didn't lose them those series'. Now, there was the whole late 80s early 90s debacle where there can be criticisms made, and everyone has an opinion on the Lindros trade in hindsight, but the Flyers did get back into the finals in '97 and **** the bed big-time. Not sure you can blame Snider or Clarke there, though. 2010 you can blame Holmgren a bit for the goalie situation, but then again, can you call that season a management failure?

If the team you put together is playing in the Finals, you did a good job. But in the end, IMO, the players have to play and they deserve most of the credit when they're winning and most of the blame when they're losing.

Oh, and from a previous thread:

Team   Finals Appearances since 1967
Montreal Canadiens   11
Boston Bruins   9
Philadelphia Flyers   8
Edmonton Oilers   7
Detroit Red Wings   6
Chicago Blackhawks   5
New Jersey Devils   5
New York Islanders   5
Dallas Stars / Minnesota North Stars   4
Pittsburgh Penguins   4
Calgary Flames   3
New York Rangers   3
St. Louis Blues   3
Vancouver Canucks   3
Anaheim Ducks   2
Buffalo Sabres   2
Carolina Hurricanes   2
Colorado Avalanche   2
Florida Panthers   1
Ottawa Senators   1
Tampa Bay Lightning   1
Washington Capitals   1

I just can't see how Snider is a problem...

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11-09-2013, 07:40 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by xifentoozlerix View Post
Everybody wants to win. That it hasn't happened since the '70s is not necessarily an indictment on Snider and/or any of the GMs. If you want to measure success solely by recency of winning the Cup, then yes, Ed Snider sucks. But if you want to measure it as consistently contending for the Cup, then Ed Snider is easily a top 3 owner in the NHL.

Either way, I prefer looking at individual seasons separately, i.e. in '80 there was the blown offside call (plus the fact that the Islanders were a burgeoning dynasty.) '85 and '87 they ran into Gretzky and co at their peak. The management clearly didn't lose them those series'. Now, there was the whole late 80s early 90s debacle where there can be criticisms made, and everyone has an opinion on the Lindros trade in hindsight, but the Flyers did get back into the finals in '97 and **** the bed big-time. Not sure you can blame Snider or Clarke there, though. 2010 you can blame Holmgren a bit for the goalie situation, but then again, can you call that season a management failure?

If the team you put together is playing in the Finals, you did a good job. But in the end, IMO, the players have to play and they deserve most of the credit when they're winning and most of the blame when they're losing.

Oh, and from a previous thread:

Team   Finals Appearances since 1967
Montreal Canadiens   11
Boston Bruins   9
Philadelphia Flyers   8
Edmonton Oilers   7
Detroit Red Wings   6
Chicago Blackhawks   5
New Jersey Devils   5
New York Islanders   5
Dallas Stars / Minnesota North Stars   4
Pittsburgh Penguins   4
Calgary Flames   3
New York Rangers   3
St. Louis Blues   3
Vancouver Canucks   3
Anaheim Ducks   2
Buffalo Sabres   2
Carolina Hurricanes   2
Colorado Avalanche   2
Florida Panthers   1
Ottawa Senators   1
Tampa Bay Lightning   1
Washington Capitals   1

I just can't see how Snider is a problem...
I can call the 2010 season a management failure. The Flyers have constantly been cheap in goal. they have had the mentality that the goaltending position isnt that important. If the Flyers had gotten just adequate NHL goaltending in 2010 they would of won the Cup. Instead they got AHL goaltending.
Yes the players should take their share of the blame. there is no denying that. but management needs to be accountable as well.
As far as Ed Snider goes? the sooner he is gone the better. He still thinks they dont need a fresh perspective. this whole keep it in the Flyers family thing needs to change. 40 years without a Cup. They absolutely need a fresh perspective

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11-09-2013, 08:14 PM
  #64
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As far as Ed Snider goes? the sooner he is gone the better. He still thinks they dont need a fresh perspective. this whole keep it in the Flyers family thing needs to change. 40 years without a Cup. They absolutely need a fresh perspective
Damn straight

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11-09-2013, 08:20 PM
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I can call the 2010 season a management failure. The Flyers have constantly been cheap in goal. they have had the mentality that the goaltending position isnt that important. If the Flyers had gotten just adequate NHL goaltending in 2010 they would of won the Cup. Instead they got AHL goaltending.
Yes the players should take their share of the blame. there is no denying that. but management needs to be accountable as well.
As far as Ed Snider goes? the sooner he is gone the better. He still thinks they dont need a fresh perspective. this whole keep it in the Flyers family thing needs to change. 40 years without a Cup. They absolutely need a fresh perspective
you can, and you cant. The Flyers had their #1 (Emery) goalie they needed to win the cup, but he suffered a potential career ending injury. It's not easy to replace your #1 during the season.

Was goaltending a factor in the finals loss? sure, but it wasn't the only reason we lost

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11-09-2013, 08:24 PM
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you can, and you cant. The Flyers had their #1 (Emery) goalie they needed to win the cup, but he suffered a potential career ending injury. It's not easy to replace your #1 during the season.

Was goaltending a factor in the finals loss? sure, but it wasn't the only reason we lost
ok fine. but you cant tell me that there was nobody better than Leighton available. I am not buying that.

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11-09-2013, 08:25 PM
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ok fine. but you cant tell me that there was nobody better than Leighton available. I am not buying that.
To be fair again he was pretty serviceable up until that series.

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11-09-2013, 08:28 PM
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So it was Snider's stale perspective that lost them the Cup the last 5 times they were in the final? When exactly did it go stale? How did they even get the chance to play in the Finals 5 times since 1980 with such a stale owner?

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11-09-2013, 08:30 PM
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To be fair again he was pretty serviceable up until that series.
until he played a team with good forwards.

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11-09-2013, 08:34 PM
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until he played a team with good forwards.
He closed out the series against Boston, I would have liked my chances better with Emery in net but you can't solely blame it on him for losing that series. He was a reason but not THE reason.

I now need to go take a shower, I just defended ML a bit.


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11-09-2013, 08:40 PM
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until he played a team with good forwards.
How does this bear on Snider, though? Was he supposed to know that Leighton actually stunk and then intervene and fire Holmgren while the Flyers were playing excellent hockey? And when, by all accounts, he DID intervene in regards to the goaltending by signing Bryz (and signaling a fresh perspective within the organization) it didn't work out. So is he damned if he does, damned if he doesn't?

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11-09-2013, 09:10 PM
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Had the teams capitalized on their opportunities, Snider would be talked about as a demi go. He can't control timing... The guy spends whatever it takes and allows his employees to do their jobs. Some make it out as if he's Jerry Jones and sticking his nose in every little decision. How many tens of millions did he just eat in order to move on from Bryz?

I think Ed Snider is incredible, and I hope the next owner is as committed to the success of the org as he is (was).

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11-09-2013, 09:15 PM
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Had the teams capitalized on their opportunities, Snider would be talked about as a demi go. He can't control timing... The guy spends whatever it takes and allows his employees to do their jobs. Some make it out as if he's Jerry Jones and sticking his nose in every little decision. How many tens of millions did he just eat in order to move on from Bryz?

I think Ed Snider is incredible, and I hope the next owner is as committed to the success of the org as he is (was).
It was his fault with signing Bryz in the first place that's the least he could do.

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11-09-2013, 09:17 PM
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If Snider wouldn't have made Holmgren sign a goalie like Bryz that offseason, people would have burned him in effigy.

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11-09-2013, 09:43 PM
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If Snider wouldn't have made Holmgren sign a goalie like Bryz that offseason, people would have burned him in effigy.
the contract given to Bryzgalov was horrible. they needed a goalie. ok fine, but the contract given was horrible. Did Holmgren give that contract out without Snider's blessing? I doubt it.

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