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Changing the team Culture

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11-09-2013, 07:59 PM
  #1
yukoner88
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Changing the team Culture

Doing some thinking out loud here, and this is all coming from the perspective of a fan in his mid 20s who never got to see the dynasty teams of the 80s. Instead I watched the team from the mid 90s that had maybe one good scoring line, and the rest of the line up was filled with grinders or no names that played their hearts out and could really only score my crashing the net, looking to get those garbage greasy goals. The Oilers may have been that team the finished in 8th or 9th every year, but they were so fun to watch, and whever they did make the playoffs, they always made it a great series to watch (all those Dallas playoff series were amazing to watch). I miss this brand of hockey so much. The message back then was always "if only we had more money, we could get that one superstar who will make this team great again" and here we are, with a team now with all the cash it has dreamt and prayed for, with all these talented players......but the hockey is bland. No one sticks up for one another, no one really drives the net on a regular basis.

I really hope this team goes through a quick culture change, and trade some of this so called "skill" that we have for players who love to play that crash and bang style. Guys that love going in front of the opposition's net, causing havoc with the other teams goalie and defenseman and working for those garbage goals. That's the Edmonton Oiler style of hockey I grew up watching, and it was this style that got me behind them. Would anyone here be bothered if one or two of our "stars" were traded for maybe lesser skilled players? Guys who play hard and play tougher hockey, creating some room for the skilled guys we do keep, and create scoring chances by crashing the net sniffing out rebounds and banging those dirty/garbage goals home. (Much like Perron, we need 3 more guys who play like he does).

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Old
11-09-2013, 08:13 PM
  #2
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There's an odd sense of complacency in this organization and it starts up top with Katz and Lowe. No one is ever really afraid of losing their jobs due to poor performance, and when that sinks in, it's hard to shake free of it.

You can pressure the team to win as much as you would like from the outside, but in a complacent organization like this that lives on past laurels, the only way you can change the culture is if the pressure to win comes from within. And it's not. There is no benefit to winning for Katz, and there is certainly no benefit in winning with Lowe.

The moment that pressure is put on the management, coaches and players from the inside, things will change.

I'm just surprised, and honestly saddened, that after 7 - 8 years of failures that it hasn't happened yet.

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11-09-2013, 08:30 PM
  #3
yukoner88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRib View Post
There's an odd sense of complacency in this organization and it starts up top with Katz and Lowe. No one is ever really afraid of losing their jobs due to poor performance, and when that sinks in, it's hard to shake free of it.

You can pressure the team to win as much as you would like from the outside, but in a complacent organization like this that lives on past laurels, the only way you can change the culture is if the pressure to win comes from within. And it's not. There is no benefit to winning for Katz, and there is certainly no benefit in winning with Lowe.

The moment that pressure is put on the management, coaches and players from the inside, things will change.

I'm just surprised, and honestly saddened, that after 7 - 8 years of failures that it hasn't happened yet.
I realize that the change has to come from within and we can yell and scream all we want, but changes will only come when katz puts the pressure on, what I'm meaning to ask is, if the roster was being reshaped and management decides to go in this direction, would everyone here be in support of that, cause I know I definitely would be

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Old
11-09-2013, 08:44 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
I realize that the change has to come from within and we can yell and scream all we want, but changes will only come when katz puts the pressure on, what I'm meaning to ask is, if the roster was being reshaped and management decides to go in this direction, would everyone here be in support of that, cause I know I definitely would be

The mix is completely wrong, so yeah, I would be in support of that. I don't know if anyone on these boards can deny the fact that we won't be able to win with the current mix of top 6 forwards we have.

If this organization wants to keep living on potential and selling off of that, we need to trade them all for top prospects soon anyways.

Really though, the mix is wrong, and the players we need to trade to bring in the right mix are Hall, RNH, Eberle, and Yakupov.

We won't trade them all, obviously. But one or two will need to be moved if Katz and Lowe are serious about icing competitive teams.

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Old
11-09-2013, 09:06 PM
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We've got way too much skill and very little jam this year. I must say I was happy with how Joensuu was playing. He brought and element that has been missing for quite some time.

Hall, Eberle, Hopkins, Gagner, Hemsky, Acrobello and Yakupov. That's 7 finesse players who're more suited for playing on a scoring line, but none of those guys are naturally gifted in the punishment or grinding department. I give Hemsky and Gagner a lot of credit for having spent a lot of time in the dirty areas, but they're not big or strong enough to do it well enough often enough.

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Old
11-09-2013, 09:08 PM
  #6
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Yup, I can relate 100%. Those are the Oilers that made me a fan and this current group are what's pushing me away.

Think I'm actually starting to hate this team, not even a fan of any individual players here with Smid now gone. I would be giddy if this entire roster was traded for guys who give a **** and try to earn their paycheck.

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11-09-2013, 09:15 PM
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this team will probably take off eventually....probably.

They do need to change the core of Gags, Nuge, Ebs, to add size...I'd add hall but he is sort of a quasi-physical force...and Yak should be as well.....If Bogdan could eventually step in at 2c that would be sweet.

as far as the culture goes....eventually that has to change....none of these guys are going to wait 5 years to turn it up..

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11-09-2013, 09:16 PM
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Is there any aspect of the organization that isn't awful?

Ownership sucks
Management sucks
Coaching sucks
Players suck
Media sucks
Fans suck (in that they pay top dollar for anything)
Arena sucks

Where the hell would you even begin the change?

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11-09-2013, 09:17 PM
  #9
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Another thing I notice, when I watch other teams play, I notice a sense of urgency and PHYSICALITY. Almost every player finishes their hits, they go out of their way to physically pound someone. Edmonton just does a bunch of drive bys

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11-09-2013, 09:21 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuds View Post
Is there any aspect of the organization that isn't awful?

Ownership sucks
Management sucks
Coaching sucks
Players suck
Media sucks
Fans suck (in that they pay top dollar for anything)
Arena sucks

Where the hell would you even begin the change?
and they are stupid and ugly

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Old
11-09-2013, 09:26 PM
  #11
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All of our good players are the same type of player. It's hard for Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Hemsky etc. etc. to take any kind of leadership reigns when they take turns making egregious turnovers that inevitably get fished out of the back of the net.

So you make the captain Ference, except oops, as everyone who'd watched him play knew, he's not actually that good.

Your captain/leader/changer of team culture doesn't have to be your best player, but he does have to be a good player, and, likely, someone that isn't a thoroughbred goal-scorer. Does Nuge become that guy? Can anybody see him telling Hall to **** off after his atrocious d tonight? Is that ever going to happen? Not likely.

Whoever is going to change the culture of the team isn't on the team yet.

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11-09-2013, 09:37 PM
  #12
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Look ever since Kevin Lowe went into an upper management position as GM or president the oilers have made the playoffs 3 times. 2001 , 2003, and 2006. Its pretty sad however I have said this for a long time. The Edmonton Oilers won't get into the playoffs until Darrel Katz runs this team like a business and not a playground! I swear all of these older guys such as Mac T, Steve Smith, Kelly Buchburger, and Kevin Lowe have got to go! Because for the past 8 seasons all these guys care about is trying to recreate the oilers of the 80's. Katz should also note that the attendance is down by 100 people for the first time since 2002-2003!

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Old
11-10-2013, 02:18 AM
  #13
yukoner88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empros View Post
Yup, I can relate 100%. Those are the Oilers that made me a fan and this current group are what's pushing me away.

Think I'm actually starting to hate this team, not even a fan of any individual players here with Smid now gone. I would be giddy if this entire roster was traded for guys who give a **** and try to earn their paycheck.
From what I've read Horvak might be a player I can rally around, picking up JJ and trading for Perron is a bit of a start. But I hear you, a couple kids asked me 2 days ago, who my favorite player, and I answered "Cujo". They replied with "but he's old and retired, what about now? Who's your favorite player still playing?" ...... I couldn't answer......

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11-10-2013, 05:27 AM
  #14
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Yes. It is time to change the culture and get rid of the following players:

RNH
Eberle


GET IT DONE.

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11-10-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
I realize that the change has to come from within and we can yell and scream all we want, but changes will only come when katz puts the pressure on
And honestly, when do you expect that to occur? There's not a reason on earth for a businessman like Katz to do anything at all right now. His enterprise is very successful and he's leveraged his ownership into a sweetheart deal on a new rink. Every first overall pick just drives his merchandise sales higher. The Oilers are probably making about as much as they can in Rexall.

Maaaaybe once the new arena opens Katz will feel motivated to do something. Even then, I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheeshta View Post
All of our good players are the same type of player. It's hard for Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Hemsky etc. etc. to take any kind of leadership reigns when they take turns making egregious turnovers that inevitably get fished out of the back of the net.

So you make the captain Ference, except oops, as everyone who'd watched him play knew, he's not actually that good.

Your captain/leader/changer of team culture doesn't have to be your best player, but he does have to be a good player, and, likely, someone that isn't a thoroughbred goal-scorer. Does Nuge become that guy? Can anybody see him telling Hall to **** off after his atrocious d tonight? Is that ever going to happen? Not likely.

Whoever is going to change the culture of the team isn't on the team yet.
Great post. I think you nailed it.

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Old
11-10-2013, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McRib View Post
There's an odd sense of complacency in this organization and it starts up top with Katz and Lowe. No one is ever really afraid of losing their jobs due to poor performance, and when that sinks in, it's hard to shake free of it.

You can pressure the team to win as much as you would like from the outside, but in a complacent organization like this that lives on past laurels, the only way you can change the culture is if the pressure to win comes from within. And it's not. There is no benefit to winning for Katz, and there is certainly no benefit in winning with Lowe.

The moment that pressure is put on the management, coaches and players from the inside, things will change.

I'm just surprised, and honestly saddened, that after 7 - 8 years of failures that it hasn't happened yet.
I was living in Edmonton when they won all their cups. Fast forward to current times I now live in Phoenix and we find TGO and Lowe thinking they know how to run a team. TGO wrecked the Phoenix franchise with his horrendous management decisions. KL is doing the same thing with the Oilers. Their arrogance is unbelievable, just because TGO was a great player he thinks he can coach and manage. He hires friends like Coffey, Fuhr and his ex agent Barnett. The same is happening now in Edmonton with KL hiring all his friends. You have to get rid of KL. Thank god we somehow managed to land Don Maloney and Dave Tippett.

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11-10-2013, 08:59 AM
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Wanna change the culture of the young kids?

Trade Eberle.

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Old
11-10-2013, 09:00 AM
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Jakey53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheeshta View Post
All of our good players are the same type of player. It's hard for Hall, Eberle, Gagner, Hemsky etc. etc. to take any kind of leadership reigns when they take turns making egregious turnovers that inevitably get fished out of the back of the net.

So you make the captain Ference, except oops, as everyone who'd watched him play knew, he's not actually that good.

Your captain/leader/changer of team culture doesn't have to be your best player, but he does have to be a good player, and, likely, someone that isn't a thoroughbred goal-scorer. Does Nuge become that guy? Can anybody see him telling Hall to **** off after his atrocious d tonight? Is that ever going to happen? Not likely.

Whoever is going to change the culture of the team isn't on the team yet.
I think if the culture changes in management the team culture will change. You build a team from the net out, but Edmonton is trying to do the opposite. Management just gave your first round picks a spot on the team instead of earning it. They have to develop both mentally and physically.

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11-10-2013, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulleroinen View Post
Yes. It is time to change the culture and get rid of the following players:

RNH
Eberle


GET IT DONE.
..... lol..... what?

some people on this board, wow

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Old
11-10-2013, 09:32 AM
  #20
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The core of the problem is the owner and therefore management's goal is to recreate the team of the 80's which simply is not possible. The game has changed as have players and training. Every team has speed now and talented players.

They called it "Oiler Hockey" which was speed and skill and offensive creativity. They've drafted ever since with that in mind hence we take Yakupov over a defenceman and don't fill an organizational need.

A culture change is not an overnight thing and it starts at the very top. Until Katz realizes he is chasing a pipe dream and so long as the building remains full this will be what we get. At least I put my money where my mouth is and dropped my 4 seasons tickets.

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Old
11-10-2013, 09:33 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
..... lol..... what?

some people on this board, wow
Yes agreed, trading two of our top players will change the culture.

It's idiotic comments like that....I shake my head. Again.

Look up the word culture and realize the bottom up does not a culture create. It's top down.

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Old
11-10-2013, 10:27 AM
  #22
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I think the culture change starts with trading Eberle or Hall (or both). Fantastic players, but together they seem to have this invincibility factor where they just show up and do as they please. Eakins talked about more physicality in trying to get back the puck. Nuge has 9 more hits than Hall and Eberle combined (not saying hits is a criteria I'm grading these players on, but it's a reflection of who is buying in and who isn't). In this environment where Hall and Ebs have this sense of entitled, saviours of the franchise complex, I think we'll only see them do what they want to do. They have 6 and 7 year deals, we've had 5 coaches in the last 6 years. Think they fear any recourse for their actions? Until one or both are traded, they'll continue to march to their own beat.

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Old
11-10-2013, 11:59 AM
  #23
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Seems like Lowe and company are a day late and dollar short with getting up to speed with the new NHL types of players. They seems to stock to a certain position rather then think of what the team needs in the future. Our net has had very little in the formation of quality in a long time. Pronger we were spoiled until he left and now have basically a lot of 5 /6 pluggers.

To think that Dany Heatly is getting shopped with no takers and we were about to overpay that bum. Dodged a bullet on that one. I agree that one of the top 6 needs to go. Ebs would probably first to walk the plank to upgrade and move forward.

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Old
11-10-2013, 12:22 PM
  #24
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Good thing we had the prefect captain the last few years to 'mentor' the kids. A guy who was massivley over paid, massivley uner performed, never took losing very hard and was totally unaccountable for his play.

When I see Eberle once a young enthusiastic hungry guy I now see the offensive version of Shawn Horcoff.

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Old
11-10-2013, 12:24 PM
  #25
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They need to start winning and the culture will change. It's about results on the ice and that's all that matters. There's no psych job that could be performed on these guys that would do anything.

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