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Is this the deepest Rangers team we've had post-lockout?

View Poll Results: Is this the deepest Rangers team post-lockout?
Yes 34 53.13%
No 30 46.88%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-10-2013, 11:22 AM
  #1
SnowblindNYR
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Is this the deepest Rangers team we've had post-lockout?

Now let me preface this by saying, I know we're only 8-8 and started the season awfully (though that's a different team than what we have now), however when Nash comes back is this the deepest team we've had post lockout? Here are a couple of disclaimers:

1) The 11-12 team finished #1 in the east and went to the ECF. So this is a question about the "deepest" not best. Hell, not even the most talented team because you can argue that a less deep team like the Jagr teams were more talented because this team has no Jagr.

2) I'm not comparing this team to any other team in the league. I realize Chicago is deeper and more talented, Pittsburgh is more talented. San Jose is probably deeper. Just compared to the Rangers post-lockout.

When Nash and Moore get back, if no one gets injured I contend that our weakest forward is Pouliot on the 3rd line, who is an average 3rd liner. So even our weakest forward is IMO not worse than average. We finally can have a 4th line made up of all legit NHLers, no Orrs, Brashears, and Hollwegs. IMO, all of Moore, Boyle, and Dorsett are solid 4th liners. I think pretty much all of our forwards are good (albeit not great) players. Defensively DZ is probably the weakest link. No matter how much you want to get on him, when Del Zotto is your weakest link on defense I think that's a pretty deep defense. Del Zotto is not a bad player by any means, even though he has some poor games.

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11-10-2013, 11:27 AM
  #2
slipknottin
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11-12 team was deeper.

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11-10-2013, 11:29 AM
  #3
SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
11-12 team was deeper.
They had Bickel as their 6th D-man for most of the year. Also, they had guys like Prust, Fedotenko, and Boyle play on the 3rd line.

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11-10-2013, 11:43 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
They had Bickel as their 6th D-man for most of the year. Also, they had guys like Prust, Fedotenko, and Boyle play on the 3rd line.
i think when nash gets back the scoring depth will definitely be deeper. and a deeper blue line. depending on who you consider #6 dman this year. its considerably better then the #6 in 11-12.

If the krieder-nash-zucc line stay together that will mean 2 possibly 3 lines of scoring depending on how the lines work out

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11-10-2013, 11:49 AM
  #5
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I just really want Boyle-Moore-Dorsett to be our 4th line, and for a competent 3rd line. This is a very solid group of guys though. Kreider and Zucc stepping up makes them much better.

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11-10-2013, 11:50 AM
  #6
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Well, this is the first team since the lockout

In all seriousness, I voted no, but then realized we started the season down Cally, Hagelin and Nash early on and still put a presentable team on the ice.

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11-10-2013, 11:51 AM
  #7
slipknottin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
They had Bickel as their 6th D-man for most of the year. Also, they had guys like Prust, Fedotenko, and Boyle play on the 3rd line.
You have to take into consideration the level guys were playing at then vs. now too. That absolutely is relevant to "depth". A Richards who is a 60 point player vs. a 20 point player makes your depth much weaker.

Gaborik was a 70+ point guy that season, Richards was a 60+ point guy. This year rangers will probably not have a guy hit 50.

Center depth was much better then with Richards + Step + Boyle + Anisimov + Mitchell.

Defense you could argue has a bit better depth now (Moore vs. Eminger/Bickel), but MDZ actually was very capable that year offensively.

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11-10-2013, 11:56 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
You have to take into consideration the level guys were playing at then vs. now too. That absolutely is relevant to "depth". A Richards who is a 60 point player vs. a 20 point player makes your depth much weaker.

Gaborik was a 70+ point guy that season, Richards was a 60+ point guy. This year rangers will probably not have a guy hit 50.

Center depth was much better then with Richards + Step + Boyle + Anisimov + Mitchell.

Defense you could argue has a bit better depth now (Moore vs. Eminger/Bickel), but MDZ actually was very capable that year offensively.
Stepan will probably hit 50, if not 60. Depending on when Nash returns, he could hit 50. Callahan can get 50. McD is a dark horse for 50.

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11-10-2013, 11:56 AM
  #9
slipknottin
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
Stepan will probably hit 50, if not 60. Depending on when Nash returns, he could hit 50. Callahan can get 50. McD is a dark horse for 50.
We should discuss "depth" again at the end of the season. A couple injuries changes everything.

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11-10-2013, 11:57 AM
  #10
SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
You have to take into consideration the level guys were playing at then vs. now too. That absolutely is relevant to "depth". A Richards who is a 60 point player vs. a 20 point player makes your depth much weaker.

Gaborik was a 70+ point guy that season, Richards was a 60+ point guy. This year rangers will probably not have a guy hit 50.

Center depth was much better then with Richards + Step + Boyle + Anisimov + Mitchell.

Defense you could argue has a bit better depth now (Moore vs. Eminger/Bickel), but MDZ actually was very capable that year offensively.
Step wasn't the Step of this year or last. Step was actually at best an average 2nd line center. Brassard is definitely better than Boyle as a 3rd line center. I'd take him over Anisimov too. Do you really think no one is hitting 50 points this season? Stepan will most likely hit 50 points, Richards like will too, Callahan has a chance, Nash whether he does or doesn't is better than a 50 point player and only his concussion will stop him. Also amount of points doesn't have to do with depth as more than a tie breaker. If you have 2 superstars as the first 2 centers, but a 4th liner as a 3rd center vs. 3 stars at center, you have better depth with the 3 stars.

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11-10-2013, 11:59 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
We should discuss "depth" again at the end of the season. A couple injuries changes everything.
That's actually a good point. It's a little unfair discussing a healthy 13-14 team (that hasn't played yet) vs. a real team that had an injury to Sauer and Staal for long periods of time in 11-12.

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11-10-2013, 12:02 PM
  #12
slipknottin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Step wasn't the Step of this year or last. Step was actually at best an average 2nd line center. Brassard is definitely better than Boyle as a 3rd line center. I'd take him over Anisimov too. Do you really think no one is hitting 50 points this season? Stepan will most likely hit 50 points, Richards like will too, Callahan has a chance, Nash whether he does or doesn't is better than a 50 point player and only his concussion will stop him. Also amount of points doesn't have to do with depth as more than a tie breaker. If you have 2 superstars as the first 2 centers, but a 4th liner as a 3rd center vs. 3 stars at center, you have better depth with the 3 stars.
Brassard vs. Anisimov is probably too close to call.

I know Im one of the few here that doesnt think Brassard is anything special, and is in that 2/3rd line issue where he doesnt have the skill to be a 2, but doesnt have size to be a good 3.

Id much rather have Boyle as the #3 than Brassard.

As for points on the season, havent even played 20 games, will have to discuss again towards the end of the year

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11-10-2013, 12:04 PM
  #13
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The 07-08 team was may have been deeper at forward, they lines were pretty balanced.

Avery-Dubi-Jagr
Dawes-Gomez-Shanahan
Straka-Drury-Callahan
Sjostrom-Betts-Orr
Prucha, Hollweg, Hossa

Roszival-Staal
Girardi-Tyutin
Mara-Strudwick
Malik, Backman

It was one of the rare post-lockout Rangers teams that was actually capable of scoring in the playoffs, 3.10 G/G.

The 2011-12 team was deeper in the sense that they had more versatility up and down the lineup - Feds, Dubi, Arty, Prust, etc. They could PK and bring a physical game and forecheck when they weren't scoring. Our forwards now are more one-dimensional - Brassard, Pouliot, Pyatt, etc.

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11-10-2013, 12:15 PM
  #14
SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
The 07-08 team was may have been deeper at forward, they lines were pretty balanced.

Avery-Dubi-Jagr
Dawes-Gomez-Shanahan
Straka-Drury-Callahan
Sjostrom-Betts-Orr
Prucha, Hollweg, Hossa

Roszival-Staal
Girardi-Tyutin
Mara-Strudwick
Malik, Backman

It was one of the rare post-lockout Rangers teams that was actually capable of scoring in the playoffs, 3.10 G/G.

The 2011-12 team was deeper in the sense that they had more versatility up and down the lineup - Feds, Dubi, Arty, Prust, etc. They could PK and bring a physical game and forecheck when they weren't scoring. Our forwards now are more one-dimensional - Brassard, Pouliot, Pyatt, etc.
Dawes in the top 6 kind of hurts that team's depth. Dubi and especially Avery is not that very good for a top 6. Callahan wasn't the current Callahan by a long shot. Richards IMO is better than Gomez. Also that 4th line is terrible. I won't mention the D because you only said offense. I'm actually surprised that the D was as good as it was, actually surprised that the lineup was as good as it was.

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11-10-2013, 01:47 PM
  #15
smoneil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
That's actually a good point. It's a little unfair discussing a healthy 13-14 team (that hasn't played yet) vs. a real team that had an injury to Sauer and Staal for long periods of time in 11-12.
Yeah, that's exactly what my reaction was. My first thought was that the current defense is a LOT deeper than 11/12, but if we throw out injuries?

Staal-Girardi
McD-Sauer
MDZ-Strals

may actually be a bit better than

McD-Girardi
Staal-Strals
Moore-MDZ

It would be more balanced as well. The more I think about it, the more I have to wonder if that Sauer injury hurt us a LOT more than we even realized (can you imagine going into the playoffs that year with a healthy defense? 3 pairs that could play? No burning out the top 4? Losing Sauer might have cost us a trip to the finals. **** Phaneuf--even if it was a clean hit.)

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11-10-2013, 01:52 PM
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SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
Yeah, that's exactly what my reaction was. My first thought was that the current defense is a LOT deeper than 11/12, but if we throw out injuries?

Staal-Girardi
McD-Sauer
MDZ-Strals

may actually be a bit better than

McD-Girardi
Staal-Strals
Moore-MDZ

It would be more balanced as well. The more I think about it, the more I have to wonder if that Sauer injury hurt us a LOT more than we even realized (can you imagine going into the playoffs that year with a healthy defense? 3 pairs that could play? No burning out the top 4? Losing Sauer might have cost us a trip to the finals. **** Phaneuf--even if it was a clean hit.)
I don't know if it changes anything, but Strals is better now than he was then. However, I think that D IS in fact better than this year's.

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11-10-2013, 01:57 PM
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Jabroni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
11-12 team was deeper.
This is what I thought at first.

But then Snowblind reminded me that Bickel was our 6th Dman.

I think the 11-12 forward group was stronger, but our current defense is stronger than the 11-12 group.

I think that it's definitely between those 2 groups though.

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11-10-2013, 01:58 PM
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smoneil
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I don't know if it changes anything, but Strals is better now than he was then. However, I think that D IS in fact better than this year's.
He is, true. Then again, the 7th D then was Eminger, who was a fair sight better than Falk IMO. Eh, hypotheticals won't do anything but get us depressed about what might have been. If Staal had never gone down, MDZ might not have stepped up. If Sauer hadn't gotten hurt, Stralman might not have gotten his chance. Still, it's hard not to get a little excited about the prospect of a fully healthy defense that year.

Has there been any update on Sauer's health? I doubt he'll be able to come back and play, but does anyone know if he's doing well?

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11-10-2013, 01:58 PM
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slipknottin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni View Post
This is what I thought at first.

But then Snowblind reminded me that Bickel was our 6th Dman.

I think the 11-12 forward group was stronger, but our current defense is stronger than the 11-12 group.

I think that it's definitely between those 2 groups though.
16 games into the season, the 11-12 team had Sauer.


Lots can change...

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11-10-2013, 02:25 PM
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Inferno
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the deepest teams tend to have the fewest guys with huge point numbers, they tend to be the most guys with very good numbers.

Bawstun rarely has a guy with elite offensive numbers, but they're as deep as it gets.

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11-10-2013, 02:28 PM
  #21
SnowblindNYR
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Originally Posted by Jabroni View Post
This is what I thought at first.

But then Snowblind reminded me that Bickel was our 6th Dman.

I think the 11-12 forward group was stronger, but our current defense is stronger than the 11-12 group.

I think that it's definitely between those 2 groups though.
I can't see how that 11-12 team was deeper than this Rangers' team. That team often in the season had 2 4th lines.

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11-10-2013, 02:38 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
This year rangers will probably not have a guy hit 50.
The team currently has 6 players on pace for more than 50 points

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11-10-2013, 02:38 PM
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slipknottin
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Originally Posted by nils2317 View Post
The team currently has 6 players on pace for more than 50 points
Which is why you dont rely on small sample size.

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11-10-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Also, they had guys like Prust, Fedotenko, and Boyle play on the 3rd line.
And they performed pretty well did they not?

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11-10-2013, 02:42 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Which is why you dont rely on small sample size.
Barring for an injury, Callahan should hit 50. Same for Richards. And Stepan.

Hagelin, Kreider, and Nash are debatable. But the former 3 are hitting 50 easy.

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