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Is there any player currently in the NHL you would trade Toews for?

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11-08-2013, 02:16 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
You don't trade Tazer because you don't fix what's not broken.

I wouldn't trade Toews for both Malkin and Crosby if I was Bowman and the offer came to me... Why? because the Hawks are winning cups right now with what they have.... The goal is to win cups right? well the Hawks are doing that....
I get what you're saying, but the bolded is pretty dumb. We're talking about two top 5 NHL players, both of which play center, for a borderline top 5 player.

Toews is a hell of a leader and all around player, and I hope he stays a Hawk for his entire career, but if it were possible for whatever reason, you gotta take Crosby and Malkin. The likelihood of winning another Stanley Cup becomes much greater with both of them.

With Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, and Saad the first and second lines would be unstoppable

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11-08-2013, 02:20 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by TwistedWrister90 View Post
I get what you're saying, but the bolded is pretty dumb. We're talking about two top 5 NHL players, both of which play center, for a borderline top 5 player.

Toews is a hell of a leader and all around player, and I hope he stays a Hawk for his entire career, but if it were possible for whatever reason, you gotta take Crosby and Malkin. The likelihood of winning another Stanley Cup becomes much greater with both of them.

With Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, and Saad the first and second lines would be unstoppable
But you don't fix what's not broken.... Also the Hawks couldn't afford both 10 million dollar players.

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11-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedWrister90 View Post
I get what you're saying, but the bolded is pretty dumb. We're talking about two top 5 NHL players, both of which play center, for a borderline top 5 player.

Toews is a hell of a leader and all around player, and I hope he stays a Hawk for his entire career, but if it were possible for whatever reason, you gotta take Crosby and Malkin. The likelihood of winning another Stanley Cup becomes much greater with both of them.

With Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, and Saad the first and second lines would be unstoppable
The salary cap would like to have a word with you.

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11-08-2013, 02:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
But you don't fix what's not broken.... Also the Hawks couldn't afford both 10 million dollar players.
That's why I said if it were possible for whatever reason. It obviously wouldn't be possible currently with the cap. But I don't see how even the biggest Toews fanboy would turn down:

Sharp Crosby Kane
Saad Malkin Hossa

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11-08-2013, 02:28 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
The salary cap would like to have a word with you.
No kidding. It's obviously a what if situation. I wasn't even the one who brought up the idea

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11-08-2013, 02:34 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
You don't trade Tazer because you don't fix what's not broken.

I wouldn't trade Toews for both Malkin and Crosby if I was Bowman and the offer came to me... Why? because the Hawks are winning cups right now with what they have.... The goal is to win cups right? well the Hawks are doing that....
I assume we're disregarding the cap here, since it'd be impossible to make this trade otherwise.

So in that case...


There is merit to the "you don't fix what's not broken" argument up to a certain limit.
You shattered that limit

Sorry champ but you're flat-out nuts if you wouldn't swap Toews for Crosby and Malkin (both!!). Don't care if you're the biggest Hawks fan in the universe. There's got to be some point where homerism is replaced by realism.

The goal is to win Cups, yes, and that hypothetical trade makes the Hawks the unquestionable Cup favorites for the next 10 years.

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11-08-2013, 02:47 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
I assume we're disregarding the cap here, since it'd be impossible to make this trade otherwise.

So in that case...


There is merit to the "you don't fix what's not broken" argument up to a certain limit.
You shattered that limit

Sorry champ but you're flat-out nuts if you wouldn't swap Toews for Crosby and Malkin (both!!). Don't care if you're the biggest Hawks fan in the universe. There's got to be some point where homerism is replaced by realism.

The goal is to win Cups, yes, and that hypothetical trade makes the Hawks the unquestionable Cup favorites for the next 10 years.
How many cups do Crosby and Malkin have? 1

The Blackhawks chemistry works - It would be insane to trade Toews given the fact what we have works...

Of course I would do the deal if the Hawks weren't successful and needed a change... At the same time the Pens would never offer such a deal....Toews is a Hawk for life - his value to the organization overrides anything any team can offer...

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11-08-2013, 02:50 PM
  #108
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The best part about the whole Crosby/Malkin/Toews debate is that they got smoked by the Bruins in the PO's they only scored what? - 4 goals lol.. Then we all knew what happened when the B's met the Hawks...

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11-08-2013, 02:58 PM
  #109
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Ugh.

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11-08-2013, 03:13 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Ugh.
You do realize that trading Toews for Malkin and Crosby could destroy the franchise (after all the success we've had over the last several years)...

It's not scoring points that makes a team good it's chemistry and such a trade would be a disruption of that chemistry...

I wouldn't do the deal but I respect your opinion...

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11-08-2013, 04:48 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
You do realize that trading Toews for Malkin and Crosby could destroy the franchise (after all the success we've had over the last several years)...

It's not scoring points that makes a team good it's chemistry and such a trade would be a disruption of that chemistry...

I wouldn't do the deal but I respect your opinion...
Okay - but much more likely, it wouldn't "destroy the franchise," because I think just about everyone in Chicago would be pretty happy to welcome two of the three best players in the world to Chicago - and no, Toews is not the other member of the top three.
Players and fans love winning. "Zomg the chemistry" would quickly be rendered an irrelevant argument. Players like Crosby create chemistry themselves and the evidence of that is pretty obvious (unless you think Chris Kunitz is a PPG winger on his own). And Malkin? Do I even need to spell this out? Crosby with Sharp and Kane, Malkin with Saad and Hossa (imagine the puck possession on that line)...

(And yes, scoring more goals than your opponent is what makes a team good).
Winning solves all potential ills. This roster minus Toews and plus Crosby and Malkin would do nothing but win. "But the chemistry!!!111one." Really? C'mon.

As for the "ugh," you're using team-by-team results to justify why Toews is better for the Hawks than Crosby and Malkin. I don't need to tell you why that route of argumentation fails before it even begins.

I get that some people really, really, really love their own team and its players, but I'm genuinely shocked that anyone would argue for Toews over both Crosby and Malkin. Head scratcher.

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11-09-2013, 08:18 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan2828 View Post
The best part about the whole Crosby/Malkin/Toews debate is that they got smoked by the Bruins in the PO's they only scored what? - 4 goals lol.. Then we all knew what happened when the B's met the Hawks...
Just IMO, but Crosby and Malkin lead bad series against the Bruins, and I'd say that Malkin played great and just got stoned by Rask. It's a good thing that Toews has never had a bad play off series where he struggled offensively! It's also a good thing that we don't know that Crosby and Malkin can step up there game in the P/O's.

I love Toews, and think he's an awesome player, but this is just a ridiculous thread at this point. Crosby on a team with legit 1st line talent as linemates and the Hawks D would be unreal. Add in Malkin and it just gets silly.

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11-09-2013, 08:27 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Just IMO, but Crosby and Malkin lead bad series against the Bruins, and I'd say that Malkin played great and just got stoned by Rask. It's a good thing that Toews has never had a bad play off series where he struggled offensively! It's also a good thing that we don't know that Crosby and Malkin can step up there game in the P/O's.

I love Toews, and think he's an awesome player, but this is just a ridiculous thread at this point. Crosby on a team with legit 1st line talent as linemates and the Hawks D would be unreal. Add in Malkin and it just gets silly.
Everything you said and let me add, living here outside of Pittsburgh no sane Penguin fan would trade EITHER for Toews, suggest BOTH and you would get punched in the face.

And I LOVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVE Toews, just telling you the facts.

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11-09-2013, 09:07 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
I assume we're disregarding the cap here, since it'd be impossible to make this trade otherwise.

So in that case...


There is merit to the "you don't fix what's not broken" argument up to a certain limit.
You shattered that limit

Sorry champ but you're flat-out nuts if you wouldn't swap Toews for Crosby and Malkin (both!!). Don't care if you're the biggest Hawks fan in the universe. There's got to be some point where homerism is replaced by realism.

The goal is to win Cups, yes, and that hypothetical trade makes the Hawks the unquestionable Cup favorites for the next 10 years.
Most of us have watched sports long enough to know that randomly throwing a collection of all-stars together on one team doesn't always work.

There's no reason to break apart a great team that is on the verge of being a dynasty.

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11-09-2013, 11:21 AM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Most of us have watched sports long enough to know that randomly throwing a collection of all-stars together on one team doesn't always work.

There's no reason to break apart a great team that is on the verge of being a dynasty.
Oh come on. Crosby and Malkin for Toews? Not even a second thought on pulling the trigger for that.

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11-09-2013, 11:31 AM
  #116
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Well this thread took an even bigger turn towards the ridiculous

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11-09-2013, 12:55 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Most of us have watched sports long enough to know that randomly throwing a collection of all-stars together on one team doesn't always work.

There's no reason to break apart a great team that is on the verge of being a dynasty.
Sure, unless you can make that great team (much) better.

There is so much variance in hockey. A few tough bounces or a not-so-kind call on that Frolik breakaway and maybe the Hawks lose Game 7 against the Wings. They were the best team last year but even those teams can lose series, and they often do.
So ultimately it becomes an argument of whether the team is better with Toews or better with Crosby and Malkin. The second case is a pure hypothetical but it is incredibly obvious what the right choice is here, and it isn't Toews.

Wouldn't give up Toews for Crosby and Malkin in a non-cap world... y'guys are nuts.

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11-09-2013, 01:05 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Chris Hansen View Post
Wouldn't give up Toews for Crosby and Malkin in a non-cap world... y'guys are nuts.
Or just really big Toews fanboys...

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11-09-2013, 01:14 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by TwistedWrister90 View Post
Or just really big Toews fanboys...
Most likely, but that's boring.

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11-09-2013, 02:03 PM
  #120
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This thread was started for Blackhawk fans asking if they would trade Toews for any single player in the NHL. It is not to imply Toews is the best player in the league, he clearly isn't. It is just to discuss when you factor in all he brings to the team outside of his talents and the success we have had so far if it would be worth the risk in peoples opinions to trade him for someone else. If Pittsburgh traded Crosby for Toews their fans would be up in arms!

People keep referring this to if Toews is the best player in the league. It isn't about that.

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11-09-2013, 02:49 PM
  #121
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I wish people would stop using the number of cups an individual player has in order to argue for that player being better than another.

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11-10-2013, 11:20 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Callidusblackhawk View Post
I wish people would stop using the number of cups an individual player has in order to argue for that player being better than another.
No that's not a factor - what should be a factor is chemistry/cohesion....

I'm not sure if people realize that this team has been drafted for or based on chemistry on chemistry, character and cohesion...

How many trades has Bowman made (without being forced to make them)??? not a lot maybe 5 and nothing major coming in or out, unless you want to consider Barker or the Zus deals "major."

The Hawks don't have a problem - there is no need to trade away core players unless we have to and you don't fix what's NOT broken....

It's pretty simple - the Hawks draft and assimilate newer players into the franchise that are ready and are able to play a role around the core with a potential to one day become a part of the core (think Shaw, Saad, Leddy)... Hence you don't trade stare core players for anyone when you're winning Cup and have a championship franchise....

If I was Bowman and if Shero offered me Crosby and Malkin straight up for Toews I would decline.....

If I was wrong in my thinking Team Canada would win gold every year.....

Just because you can put the "best team" statistically on paper doesn't mean it will translate into success...

Sports/athletes are WAY MORE than just their statistics....

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11-10-2013, 11:29 PM
  #123
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They're more than stats sure. In hypothetical land, where he hypothetically trade Jonathon Toews - My favorite Blackhawk of all time - for Geno and Sid - two of the top 5 AT WORST players in the world - the stats are pretty god damn convincing. Geno has three years with 100+ points. Crosby has four and two years where he was on pace to have broken 100.

Toews has one year where he ALMOST broke 80. Intangibles are nice. An assload of goals is better.

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11-10-2013, 11:34 PM
  #124
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They're more than stats sure. In hypothetical land, where he hypothetically trade Jonathon Toews - My favorite Blackhawk of all time - for Geno and Sid - two of the top 5 AT WORST players in the world - the stats are pretty god damn convincing. Geno has three years with 100+ points. Crosby has four and two years where he was on pace to have broken 100.

Toews has one year where he ALMOST broke 80. Intangibles are nice. An assload of goals is better.
Pretty much.

There is so much wrong with HF2828's post right above yours, but if I responded to it I'd be typing all night.

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11-10-2013, 11:51 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
They're more than stats sure. In hypothetical land, where he hypothetically trade Jonathon Toews - My favorite Blackhawk of all time - for Geno and Sid - two of the top 5 AT WORST players in the world - the stats are pretty god damn convincing. Geno has three years with 100+ points. Crosby has four and two years where he was on pace to have broken 100.

Toews has one year where he ALMOST broke 80. Intangibles are nice. An assload of goals is better.
I bet if that trade was made Pittsburgh would go on to win cups while the Hawks ended up in cap hell stuck with both Crosby and Malkin - the entire franchise would be destroyed....

Even with NO cap I wouldn't do it.......

Hawks are winning cups right now and are considered contenders and in some circles to become a dynasty - yet you would consider trading Toews for Crosby?

There is no WAY that makes the Hawks better - not to mention Crosby's injury issues - which will pretty much pace him out to a full 82 games of Toews product in 60 of his games....

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