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Ducks Lineup Discussion (Part III)

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Old
11-11-2013, 04:05 PM
  #26
TheJoeMan
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Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I understand what people are saying. Anderson certainly looks ready for the NHL.

But why make a position of great strength a question mark going into the rest of the 65 or so games the Ducks have left to play?

Both Hiller and Fasth have shown they are prone to injuries, which makes having Anderson that much more valuable going into the rest of the season and playoffs.

People should look at the value of having 3 goalies who can play NHL minutes, rather than being so quick to trade away an asset simply because the Ducks have a surplus. This team isn't borderline anymore. They are contenders. Going into the second half of the season and playoffs with Hiller/Fasth then allowing Hiller to walk is the right move for a solid playoff team. Sure you won't get an asset in return for Hiller, but you will gain 4.5 million in cap space which can help solidify another position where maybe the Ducks aren't as strong.
There's only room for two goalies though, that's the problem. Yes the threat of further injuries really clouds this issue but the fact of the matter is going with Hiller and Fasth in the immediate future takes our best goalie out of the lineup. I mean that might be a little shortsighted but it's been so great having Andersen put up a brick wall the way he has. I just hate the idea of sending him down right now. I hate the idea of him not starting right now.

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11-11-2013, 04:13 PM
  #27
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Probably, considering Fowler was just instrumental in shutting down the Sedin twins.
Yeah, there's also the fact that the WHL is not exactly comparable to say the WJCs or even the Memorial Cup can be. Fowler had huge runs in both before he was drafted. Theodore could very well surpass Fowler someday, but I'd be wary of drawing those conclusions from a handful of regular season games in the W.

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11-11-2013, 04:14 PM
  #28
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Probably, considering Fowler was just instrumental in shutting down the Sedin twins.
Yes although the last 3 games they have been invisible.

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11-11-2013, 04:15 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
There's only room for two goalies though, that's the problem. Yes the threat of further injuries really clouds this issue but the fact of the matter is going with Hiller and Fasth in the immediate future takes our best goalie out of the lineup. I mean that might be a little shortsighted but it's been so great having Andersen put up a brick wall the way he has. I just hate the idea of sending him down right now. I hate the idea of him not starting right now.
I think we are over-valuing Andersen right now. Coach Boudreau has put Andersen in positions to succeed, until yesterday, he had not beat a team in the top 8 in either conference. And yesterday, Boudreau was going to start Hiller until he came down with the *****. So it goes to show, who is the real # 1 in Anaheim, he's been given all the big games and Andersen has been given confidence boosters. That's why I love BB as the head coach, he knows the capabilities of his players and ALWAYS puts them in positions to be successful.


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11-11-2013, 04:25 PM
  #30
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Yes although the last 3 games they have been invisible.
That's a bit dismissive, don't you think?

Fowler's draft year was significantly better than Theodore's. Not to mention massive improvement in his defensive game since he's come into the NHL. Right now Cam is our best defenseman, as a 21 year old.

Sure, it's possible, but Theodore would need to have a pretty exceptional development curve between now and the time he comes to the NHL.

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11-11-2013, 04:29 PM
  #31
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Am I the only one that thinks Theodore will be better than Fowler? I have watched his last 3 games and wow he has size, can skate with the best of them but best of all his shot is amazing he gets it through every single time. Man between Fowler, Lindholm, Theodore, Gibson plus our forward prospects it's gonna be amazing
I've learned over the last nine years not to care about prospects, especially before they turn pro. Most players in the league are former 1st and 2nd round picks, and most players in the league aren't stars. Half the players no one talks about ends up being NHL'ers and half the players everyone talks about never makes it.


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11-11-2013, 04:43 PM
  #32
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I actually think getting picks wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. The ducks pretty much hit their limit on depth. After Rakell we have Holland who the Ducks havn't deemed to be an NHLer and Sauve(who I think has been pretty good and might also pass Holland). After them it's all people who are very small and probably won't make the NHL because of it.

Whitney 5'7 162
Sarault 5'11 181
Friberg 5'11 195

After the current group of prospects make the team (looks like everyone but Holland will) Norfolk is going to be barren. For a few years after next the ducks are going to have to rely mostly on FA and picks from next year on. Whether you want to delay that problem to next year or not it doesn't matter. If the younger players give the Ducks the best chance to win now, creating a roster spot for them while acquiring picks wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

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11-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Am I the only one that thinks Theodore will be better than Fowler? I have watched his last 3 games and wow he has size, can skate with the best of them but best of all his shot is amazing he gets it through every single time. Man between Fowler, Lindholm, Theodore, Gibson plus our forward prospects it's gonna be amazing
Your entitled to your opinion, but I don't know how you can compare a 21 year old 3 year NHL vet to an an 18 year old CHL player who is currently light years from making the NHL. Most 18 year old first round draft picks look impressive wherever they are playing. Almost none are ever as impressive in the NHL. Not to mention a good half of them are complete busts relative to even making the NHL.

I guess that's the long way of saying yes to your question.

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11-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #34
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Your entitled to your opinion, but I don't know how you can compare a 21 year old 3 year NHL vet to an an 18 year old CHL player who is currently light years from making the NHL. Most 18 year old first round draft picks look impressive wherever they are playing. Almost none are ever as impressive in the NHL. Not to mention a good half of them are complete busts relative to even making the NHL.

I guess that's the long way of saying yes to your question.
I don't know maybe scoring 22 pts in 18 games as a defensemen and as a 18 year old, and impressing everyone in training camp

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11-11-2013, 04:52 PM
  #35
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I don't know maybe scoring 22 pts in 18 games as a 18 year old, and impressing everyone in training camp
How about 55 points in 55 games, as an 17/18 year old, in his OHL rookie year? 14 points in 19 games in the OHL playoffs. 6 points in 4 games in the Memorial Cup Tournament?

No one is suggesting Shea Theodore isn't a great young player, but I think some perspective is important. Fowler had a great season leading up to the draft, and never got to go back to the OHL after. Since then, we only have Fowler's NHL career to consider, and that's just a completely different animal.

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11-11-2013, 04:54 PM
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How about 55 points in 55 games, as an 17/18 year old, in his OHL rookie year? 14 points in 19 games in the OHL playoffs. 6 points in 4 games in the Memorial Cup Tournament?
Almost as impressive. I swear you act like Fowler is your girl or something I am not dissing him he is our best defensive men right now just saying I think Theodore has a higher ceiling. Its enteraining its like anyone that says anything about Fowler is offending you It's like me saying I think Gibson will be better than Hiller, of course Hiller is playing in the NHL but I think in the future he has a higher ceiling.

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11-11-2013, 04:55 PM
  #37
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I don't know maybe scoring 22 pts in 18 games as a defensemen and as a 18 year old, and impressing everyone in training camp
The 18 year-old who was already playing in the NHL was more impressive. I love that Theodore is killing it in the Dub right now but he's not close in comparison to Cam at the same age. Cam put up big numbers in a tougher league in his draft year and went on to have a big year in the NHL. Theodore has a ways to go before he can really be compared to Cam and even then it's a high standard to meet.

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11-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I understand what people are saying. Anderson certainly looks ready for the NHL.

But why make a position of great strength a question mark going into the rest of the 65 or so games the Ducks have left to play?

Both Hiller and Fasth have shown they are prone to injuries, which makes having Anderson that much more valuable going into the rest of the season and playoffs.

People should look at the value of having 3 goalies who can play NHL minutes, rather than being so quick to trade away an asset simply because the Ducks have a surplus. This team isn't borderline anymore. They are contenders. Going into the second half of the season and playoffs with Hiller/Fasth then allowing Hiller to walk is the right move for a solid playoff team. Sure you won't get an asset in return for Hiller, but you will gain 4.5 million in cap space which can help solidify another position where maybe the Ducks aren't as strong.
My main goal is not to trade from a surplus. I'm actually thinking Andersen might soon give us a better chance to win.

Yes there's a risk with injuries and general unprovenness (especially playoff unprovenness), but Hiller has also been pretty mediocre recently.

edit: Just to clarify. I think now Andersen~Hiller >=Fasth. I think by the end of the year, with some more games under his belt, it will be Andersen > Hiller >= Fasth. If I felt Hiller was better I would be fine keeping him through UFA and getting nothing for him.


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Old
11-11-2013, 04:57 PM
  #39
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Almost as impressive. I swear you act like Fowler is your girl or something I am not dissing him just saying I think Theodore has a higher ceiling. Its enteraining its like anyone that says anything about Fowler is offending you
It's almost as impressive to do that at a younger age?

And I'm not offended. I'm merely pointing out where the stats fall short. You're the one suggesting Theodore could be better than Fowler after watching him for 3 games. Clearly I'm not the only fan boy.

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11-11-2013, 04:57 PM
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The 18 year-old who was already playing in the NHL was more impressive. I love that Theodore is killing it in the Dub right now but he's not close in comparison to Cam at the same age. Cam put up big numbers in a tougher league in his draft year and went on to have a big year in the NHL. Theodore has a ways to go before he can really be compared to Cam and even then it's a high standard to meet.
Am I comparing them now? I said I think he will BE better.

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11-11-2013, 04:58 PM
  #41
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It's almost as impressive to do that at a younger age?

And I'm not offended. I'm merely pointing out where the stats fall short. You're the one suggesting Theodore could be better than Fowler after watching him for 3 games. Clearly I'm not the only fan boy.
God forbid someone say something bad about Fowler around you in real life

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11-11-2013, 04:59 PM
  #42
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God forbid someone say something bad about Fowler around you in real life
You don't know me. Don't go that route. Defend the point you're trying to make, don't whine if someone disagrees with you.

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11-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #43
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Lindholm and Theodore both have a higher ceiling IMO.

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11-11-2013, 05:02 PM
  #44
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And I agree with Lindholm, and have said as much for a while. I don't agree with Theodore, at this point.

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11-11-2013, 05:09 PM
  #45
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I don't know maybe scoring 22 pts in 18 games as a defensemen and as a 18 year old, and impressing everyone in training camp
You think he's the first kid to do that? What you are ignoring or failing to grasp is that at his current level there are boatloads of kids who look like future NHL stars. But life has a funny way of turning out. Fowler is already an established NHL vet whose upside has not yet been determined. Many kids in Theodore's position never make the NHL. To say that somebody currently so much lower than Fowler will be better is nothing more than a drive by opinion, even though it could be right.

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11-11-2013, 05:09 PM
  #46
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Oh and the even more risky thing that I'm sure even fewer people will agree with... but I'd also love to move Souray now. I'm sure there's a little bit of smoke and mirrors with all the young guys playing better than expected, but I really don't trust Souray to help for any extended length of time. He can help when he is in the lineup, but how much can you count on him being uninjured come playoffs? And then next season, when he's a year older and frailer?

The team has great chemistry as is. Leave it alone. The dreaded rookie wall might hit Magnus, but there's always Vats.

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11-11-2013, 05:12 PM
  #47
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You don't know me. Don't go that route. Defend the point you're trying to make, don't whine if someone disagrees with you.
Here we go with Heated Moments. Can we calm down for a second? No need for this DN and Soj? Absolutely no need for this.

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11-11-2013, 05:13 PM
  #48
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I don't know maybe scoring 22 pts in 18 games as a defensemen and as a 18 year old, and impressing everyone in training camp
He does have a point. But I am staying out of this thread yup yup

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11-11-2013, 05:14 PM
  #49
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Oh and the even more risky thing that I'm sure even fewer people will agree with... but I'd also love to move Souray now. I'm sure there's a little bit of smoke and mirrors with all the young guys playing better than expected, but I really don't trust Souray to help for any extended length of time. He can help when he is in the lineup, but how much can you count on him being uninjured come playoffs?

The team has great chemistry as is. Leave it alone. The dreaded rookie wall might hit Magnus, but there's always Vats.
I might have agreed at the beginning of the year. But considering he will only be playing a half season at best, Souray could be a perfect addition down the stretch. If he gets hurt again, we still have everybody else. If not and he goes to beast mode due to shortened season we only get better. His size and toughness will be huge if he can stay healthy.

Now at the end of the year I could be convinced to get rid of him.

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11-11-2013, 05:15 PM
  #50
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You think he's the first kid to do that? What you are ignoring or failing to grasp is that at his current level there are boatloads of kids who look like future NHL stars. But life has a funny way of turning out. Fowler is already an established NHL vet whose upside has not yet been determined. Many kids in Theodore's position never make the NHL. To say that somebody currently so much lower than Fowler will be better is nothing more than a drive by opinion, even though it could be right.
So what you are saying is after seeing both of them play at the same age a person cannot make a prediction because some players have failed in the past... Interesting

So it isn't fair to say I think Gibson will be better than Hiller because many goalies have failed.

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