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Ducks Lineup Discussion (Part III)

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Old
11-11-2013, 05:45 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by JeffShibley View Post
What you are saying does make sense. It does give us more depth. It just means we will be usuing our 2nd and 3rd best options in goal instead of our 1st.
We haven't seen a lot of Andersen, though. Right now, he's playing the best out of the three but it's only been a few games. I have a feeling he'll get at least 2 starts this week, though, extending the sample size we have of him. If Fasth can stay down longer than a week and Andersen continues to play stellar, we could even see more.

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11-11-2013, 07:16 PM
  #77
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Andersen needs more than 6 games to prove he's our "best" option in net especially considering BB cherry picked his opponents in all but the Vancouver game.

Say we trade Hiller now and Andersen comes down to earth and hits a rookie wall - then what happens. It's inevitable that Andersen regresses and trading Hiller means you're either banking on his regression to only be minor or banking on Fasth to carry the workload.

Seems absolutely retarded to trade our most proven guy based off 6 games. I can give you dozens of goalies who have played lights out over a 6 game sample size that turned out to be nothing special.

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11-11-2013, 07:21 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Andersen needs more than 6 games to prove he's our "best" option in net especially considering BB cherry picked his opponents in all but the Vancouver game.

Say we trade Hiller now and Andersen comes down to earth and hits a rookie wall - then what happens. It's inevitable that Andersen regresses and trading Hiller means you're either banking on his regression to only be minor or banking on Fasth to carry the workload.

Seems absolutely retarded to trade our most proven guy based off 6 games. I can give you dozens of goalies who have played lights out over a 6 game sample size that turned out to be nothing special.
Please list dozens of goalies with Anderson stats thus far through 6 games.

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11-11-2013, 07:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Please list dozens of goalies with Anderson stats thus far through 6 games.
I said dozens of goalies who have played lights out over a 6 game sample size. And there are plenty.

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11-11-2013, 07:37 PM
  #80
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I said dozens of goalies who have played lights out over a 6 game sample size. And there are plenty.
Name a few please.

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11-11-2013, 07:39 PM
  #81
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Name a few please.
Jose Theodore comes to mind.

(Really, a lot of goaltenders have had great short stretches. Giguere had a monster one in 2003. Hiller has had a few. The list is longer than you'd think)

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11-11-2013, 07:40 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
My main goal is not to trade from a surplus. I'm actually thinking Andersen might soon give us a better chance to win.

Yes there's a risk with injuries and general unprovenness (especially playoff unprovenness), but Hiller has also been pretty mediocre recently.

edit: Just to clarify. I think now Andersen~Hiller >=Fasth. I think by the end of the year, with some more games under his belt, it will be Andersen > Hiller >= Fasth. If I felt Hiller was better I would be fine keeping him through UFA and getting nothing for him.
I guess I just think people here are anointing Anderson as a sure #1 after 6 NHL games. Teams haven't seen him, don't know his tendencies. Just seems like some very short sighted thinking and a mere desire to not allow Hiller to walk for nothing. Sending Anderson down doesn't hurt anything. It won't ruin him nor Gibson. I'm just missing the angle and need I guess.

On top of that my guess is you wouldn't get more than a high draft pick and a salary dump for Hiller. Draft picks aren't a huge need at this point.

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11-11-2013, 07:42 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Jose Theodore comes to mind.
He was lights out for a whole season. I can think of one more - Steve Mason, who also took the league by storm. But he's had a nice bounce back this year. But I can't think of dozens of goalies.

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11-11-2013, 07:47 PM
  #84
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He was lights out for a whole season. I can think of one more - Steve Mason, who also took the league by storm. But he's had a nice bounce back this year. But I can't think of dozens of goalies.
Right, for a whole season the list is limited, but when you talk about 6 games? It's actually pretty significant. If you went back over the years on HFB alone, and looked around the 6-10 game mark, you'd probably find a bunch of threads about "so and so for Vezina?"

It's when the streak runs longer that it starts to get nationwide attention. 6 games is nothing. Really, it isn't.

I'm not saying it's irrelevant, but the sample size is so ridiculously small, and it's worth mentioning(just as it was last season with Fasth) that the team in front of him is playing good hockey.

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11-11-2013, 07:50 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Right, for a whole season the list is limited, but when you talk about 6 games? It's actually pretty significant. If you went back over the years on HFB alone, and looked around the 6-10 game mark, you'd probably find a bunch of threads about "so and so for Vezina?"

It's when the streak runs longer that it starts to get nationwide attention. 6 games is nothing. Really, it isn't.

I'm not saying it's irrelevant, but the sample size is so ridiculously small, and it's worth mentioning(just as it was last season with Fasth) that the team in front of him is playing good hockey.
Agreed. That's why I don't think Hiller/Fasth is getting traded any time soon. Andersen just got a 3 game extension to add to his sample, with Fasth being on a conditional stint. I think we see him start 2 of the next 3 games. After that, I fully expect him to be sent back down.

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11-11-2013, 07:54 PM
  #86
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Name a few please.
Boucher, Hedberg, Mason, Jim Carey, Theodore, Blaine Lacher, Raycroft, Steve Shields, Roman Turek, Roman Cechmanek, Pascal Leclaire, Brent Johnson, Michael Leighton.

There's a dozen guys who had flash in the pan type stretches/seasons (to be fair to Theodore he was a decent starter in other years) and that's just off the top of my head over the past 15 or so years, there will be plenty more. Boucher even had a 5 game shutout streak at one point.

6 games does not make a number 1 goalie. I'm sure Andersen will be very good but there will be down periods and he will in all likelihood get exposed at some point. I remember James Reimer playing lights out for the Leafs a few years ago in his rookie year and Toronto fans were declaring him as the next Brodeur. Now he may still carve out a career as a solid number one but look at the rollercoaster ride the Leafs have had with him since then.

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11-11-2013, 08:21 PM
  #87
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Who was the Pittsburgh goalie who had a huge win streak to start? Lalime?

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11-11-2013, 08:28 PM
  #88
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Who was the Pittsburgh goalie who had a huge win streak to start? Lalime?
Yeah it was Lalime, there's another guy. He went 14-0-2 to start his career (then went 7-12-0 to finish the year). Decent backup goalie but never a reliable #1 guy outside of 1 year in Ottawa.

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11-11-2013, 08:30 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Boucher, Hedberg, Mason, Jim Carey, Theodore, Blaine Lacher, Raycroft, Steve Shields, Roman Turek, Roman Cechmanek, Pascal Leclaire, Brent Johnson, Michael Leighton.

There's a dozen guys who had flash in the pan type stretches/seasons (to be fair to Theodore he was a decent starter in other years) and that's just off the top of my head over the past 15 or so years, there will be plenty more. Boucher even had a 5 game shutout streak at one point.

6 games does not make a number 1 goalie. I'm sure Andersen will be very good but there will be down periods and he will in all likelihood get exposed at some point. I remember James Reimer playing lights out for the Leafs a few years ago in his rookie year and Toronto fans were declaring him as the next Brodeur. Now he may still carve out a career as a solid number one but look at the rollercoaster ride the Leafs have had with him since then.
Don't hate on Cechmanek... best Flyers goalie in recent history before Steve Mason arrived.

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11-11-2013, 08:51 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks Nation View Post
Please list dozens of goalies with Anderson stats thus far through 6 games.
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Originally Posted by 42 View Post
Name a few please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Boucher, Hedberg, Mason, Jim Carey, Theodore, Blaine Lacher, Raycroft, Steve Shields, Roman Turek, Roman Cechmanek, Pascal Leclaire, Brent Johnson, Michael Leighton.
Why stop there. Those goalies where actually somewhat relevant backups (other than Leighton who was only "relevant" for a year or so).

Here you go, a dozen goalies who went hot for six straight games. Not everyone had Andersen-like numbers, but these were for the most part #3 goalies. Munro and Garnett may even have been #4 on their respective depth charts.

Steve Passmore - 93.9% dec 27-mar 3 in 2001/2002)
Hannu Toivonen - 92.9% (oct 25-dec 4 in 2007)
Adam Munro - 92.9% (jan 10-jan 26 in 2006)
Martin Prusek - 93.9% (nov 17-dec 4 in 2003)
Mike Morrison - 93.9% (nov 7-nov 25 in 2005)
Yann Danis - 93.4% (oct 29-jan 18 in 2010)
Wade Dubielewicz - 93.8% (mar 15-apr 8 in 2007)
Jason Bacashihua - 93.3% (apr 9 - apr 18 in 2006)
Michael Garnett - 93.6% (dec 15 - dec 28 in 2005)
Michael Leighton - 94.0% (dec 21 - jan 1 in 2009/2010)
Steven Valiquette - 94.3% (dec 29 - mar 2 in 2007/2008)
Curtis McElhinney - 93.9% (mar 19 - apr 3 in 2010)

It would be alot easier to name goalies who were actually relevant backups for a a couple of seasons. Mikael Tellqvist, Mathieu Aubin, Curtis Sanford etc. Any career backup has had above 93% for six games, most of them above 94% I imagine. Not saying Andersen hasn't impressed, and he's more talented than most guys listed above, but it's a little early yet to draw conclusions.


Last edited by Elvs: 11-11-2013 at 08:59 PM.
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11-11-2013, 08:56 PM
  #91
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"Future Kings starter Erik Ersberg."

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Old
11-11-2013, 08:58 PM
  #92
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Giguere is sitting at 5-0 with a .970 SV% right now and he hasn't been able to handle a starters load since 2007-08. There's another to add to the list.

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Originally Posted by Elvs View Post
Why stop there. Those goalies where actually somewhat relevant backups (other than Leighton who was only "relevant" for a year or so).

Here you go, a dozen goalies who went hot for six straight games. Not everyone had Andersen-like numbers, but these were for the most part #3 goalies for the clubs. Munro and Garnett may even have been #4 on their respective depth charts.

Steve Passmore - 93.9% dec 27-mar 3 in 2001/2002)
Hannu Toivonen - 92.9% (oct 25-dec 4 in 2007)
Adam Munro - 92.9% (jan 10-jan 26 in 2006)
Martin Prusek - 93.9% (nov 17-dec 4 in 2003)
Mike Morrison - 93.9% (nov 7-nov 25 in 2005)
Yann Danis - 93.4% (oct 29-jan 18 in 2010)
Wade Dubielewicz - 93.8% (mar 15-apr 8 in 2007)
Jason Bacashihua - 93.3% (apr 9 - apr 18 in 2006)
Michael Garnett - 93.6% (dec 15 - dec 28 in 2005)
Michael Leighton - 94.0% (dec 21 - jan 1 in 2009/2010)
Steven Valiquette - 94.3% (dec 29 - mar 2 in 2007/2008)
Curtis McElhinney - 93.9% (mar 19 - apr 3 in 2010)

It would be alot easier to name goalies who were actually relevant backups for a a couple of seasons. Mikael Tellqvist, Mathieu Aubin, Curtis Sanford etc. Any career backup has had above 93% for six games, most of them above 94% I imagine. Not saying Andersen hasn't impressed, and he's more talented than most guys listed above, but it's a little early yet to draw conclusions.
That's in depth - is there a resource you went through to find those numbers or did you manually do it?

And yeah Andersen has certainly impressed but I've seen so many goalies go on hot streaks that it's hard to not be a bit skeptical. If I'm Murray I'm certainly not going to trade Hiller over a 6 game streak.

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11-11-2013, 09:02 PM
  #93
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Not really fair to throw Jiggy in with those other guys. He's had a great career that unfortunately got slowed down by injuries.

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11-11-2013, 09:03 PM
  #94
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Giguere is sitting at 5-0 with a .970 SV% right now and he hasn't been able to handle a starters load since 2007-08. There's another to add to the list.



That's in depth - is there a resource you went through to find those numbers or did you manually do it?
I manually looked through their game by game logs, added six games together (that were in row) and calculated their percentages. Yes I have no life.

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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
"Future Kings starter Erik Ersberg."
I thought of him, 94.2% through his first 11 NHL games. But he was too good to make my list. Another one is Nolan Schaefer, who had 92% during his first seven NHL games. Those seven games turned also turned out to be his last.


Last edited by Elvs: 11-11-2013 at 09:11 PM.
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11-11-2013, 09:17 PM
  #95
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I manually looked through their game by game logs, added six games together (that were in row) and calculated their percentages. Yes I have no life.



I thought of him, 94.2% through his first 11 NHL games. But he was too good to make my list. Another one is Nolan Schaefer, who had 92% during his first seven NHL games. Those seven games turned also turned out to be his last.
Wait, I think you need to look at the first 6 games of their career. Back to work you go.

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Old
11-11-2013, 09:28 PM
  #96
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I have no life. That is a whole extra level. Respect.

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11-11-2013, 10:02 PM
  #97
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Not really fair to throw Jiggy in with those other guys. He's had a great career that unfortunately got slowed down by injuries.
I just threw his stats from this year to indicate that a 6 game stretch doesn't mean anything. Colorado isn't going and giving Varlamov nights off just to get him extra game time because of that small a sample size. I wasn't comparing him to any of the others I mentioned.

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I manually looked through their game by game logs, added six games together (that were in row) and calculated their percentages. Yes I have no life.
Haha if you didn't do it I'm sure I would have done something similar when I got home to my computer.

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11-11-2013, 10:34 PM
  #98
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Brian Boucher also had that 5 and a half game shutout streak...

I love Anderson and have for a long time. He is the real deal. that's not to say he won't hit a rookie wall or struggle at some point this season.

always nice to have options.

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11-11-2013, 10:43 PM
  #99
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Anderson is Huge even if he is out of position he covers so much ****** net


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11-11-2013, 11:15 PM
  #100
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I thought of a goalie that falls under this well, you may remember, this guy started 8-0 playing so well many fans wanted to get rid of #1. After awhile Fasth started to show weakness on his fivehole, and had a hard time with injures to the point he became less reliable then hiller.

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