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The All-Purpose David Desharnais thread (post-Pressbox edition)

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11-12-2013, 06:44 AM
  #376
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
there's a dozen of home games in football per year, at most...
highest priced tick for the Als is 97$

there's 25 home games in soccer per year, at most...
the highest price ticket for the Impact is 79$

and you want to compare them to the Habs ? seriously ?
The Alouettes and the Impact are not historical teams, and there's less francophone talent in those sports than there is in the NHL.

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11-12-2013, 06:45 AM
  #377
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Maybe you should campaign against global warming rather than campaigning for an English coach?
Not campaigning for an English coach, campaigning to take "needs to speak French" off the coaches' job description. There's a big difference.

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11-12-2013, 06:45 AM
  #378
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Hey I know, since you like counting so much... lets count how many times the Anglo community demonstrated/picketed when we have had a French coach over the years? That would be ZERO. How long did it take for the french community to get all riled up when we had Randy Cunneyworth as head coach? 1 Day. How does that math look so far? It IS an issue.
Zero??? Seriously??? Have you read this board over the years and the GAZILLION threads of mostly anglophones (and some francos) people hating to see french coaches be hired for the sake of never hiring the "best one"???? As far as the franco community, they were 500 that had a manifestation over the Cunneyworth hiring....rarely the WHOLE FRANCO COMMUNITY, but in this board, we love to generalize. While the debate we heard from the fans against it but that didn't go as far as manifesting, yes they were against.....just like the majority of people in this board manifesting the fact that they hate to see a franco being hired "'cause he surely was hired for the language he spoke and not his qualities as coach".

And I love how you are trying to divert the conversation from your initial point...how about sticking to it if you are so right? "French PLAYERS get more chances here....they get more money"....WHO? Desharnais....okay....should we go back at the Desharnais thread? I was one of the few AGAINST it. I was not in the majority. But now he's overpaid...the guy fell off the face of the earth..tell me that was expected. Tell me everyboyd knew he would have 1 points in 20ish games? Who else...Brière. Bad decision by Bergevin. Period. Thought he'd help the PP and in the playoffs. And.....who else got too much money as FRENCH PLAYERS? Now......is Gionta french? When your ex-boss tells you....JUMP AT THAT OFFER even if he would have liked to keep him...do you seriously think that it wasn't a whole lot of money? Some people hate the Prust deal....some people soon will hate the Pacioretty deal....some people hate the Price deal....are they french? Hey, I guess I found a way to bash Price after all....let's fine some french background from him. THEN, he'll be easier to criticize 'cause he'd surely be in net because he's a local....

Should we go back in history and see the tons of non-french players with bad contracts? Honestly, it makes no sense whatsoever. Yes, it is part of our history and having local talent in this talent should be there, and we should choose more wisely.....but we have a big total of 4 local talent on this team. Language ISN'T an issue. It would be if we would be bad because of it. We could have gone with Jagr instead of Brière....let's pretend we KNOW Jagr would have come but let's agree he would...well yes, bad decision. Would Bergevin voluntarily chose the worst player because of the language he speaks? Sorry, will never believe it as I strongly believe people were fine with NOT having Brière on the team and would have been just as excited to finally see Jagr on it. It was a plain stupid hockey decision no matter the language. Brière had other offers, unless you don't want to believe it 'cause it doesn't fit your idea. So if he had other offers, it means we're not talking about Pierre Dagenais here, where signing him would have meant solely wanting to add more local talent no matter the talent. Wasn't the case. Thank god Drewiske isn't french.....that signing would have been crucified till world ends....as it should be anyway. How's Emelin's french by the way?


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The truth is, most don't want to come here, and you know it. If they did, we would have 2 lines easily fulfilling the quota genpop wants. DD benefited from having the right name, at the right time. I don't blame him, he cashed in.
Desharnais benefitted from having a freakin 60-point season. You think he would have had that contract with a 20-point season? You don't think that they didn't see DD as a guy who progressed and was a great player on every level he played and just had a 60-point season. Bergevin thought he'd have a steal on his hands by signing him at that amount "thiniking" he could succesfully have that kind of producting year after year. Stupid decision. Yes, he was a local, we'll give him more chance....but it's not like he didn't do anything. But this team has made MULTIPLE other bad decisions...that when they are done...they are just that....bad moves...but when it implicates a french player it's...bad move made because he's local. How that's for fairness?

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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Why on earth would they jump at signing Briere? A player who rejected this team in his prime, but suddenly they sign him to a silly contract that not even a Vegas Casino would have given odds of a successful delivery on his end? Oh right, there's that french thing again... coming in handy when it matters.
Maybe because Philly was in cap trouble and unsure of how he'd recuperate from the injuries and the bad season. And while we all agree that it wasn't a good deal, it's pretty easy to say this when he's not playing after a bad start of the year than most people who hated the deal didn't dream of seeing. Nobody thought that while he regressed, he'd be looking THIS bad. Doesn't help that he's not playing his natural position, a guy who admitted be more at ease at the Center position, but hey we don't care, not going to give him a chance here, he's french.


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I think this team needs a certain french element, it makes sense. It is part of the team's history and identity. But to sacrifice the good of the team to (what I feel) go out of the way to treat the french players differently? That's bush league, and I'm starting to notice it. Am I wrong? Maybe? I saw what I saw... DD was being coddled on the bench where I see P.K or Gallagher/Galchenyuk getting scolded for that same horrible play.
Coaches have their favorite. For a franco, it would be mostly french players though, pretty sure I remember Colby Armstrong being a Therrien favorite too....which anglo poster hated to see Armstrong being Therrien,s favorite? But Bouillon...THAT's a problem. For the record, YES, favorites are a problem NO MATTER the language they speak. Reason why I didn't want Bouillon as a supposed #7 'cause I already knew he wouldn't be treated as such.....though we will see with Emelin coming back. If anybody else but Bouillon gets out of the lineup, Therrien will prove to me that on top of being bad coach....he's a bad coach with an extremely poor judgment.

And while you see PK.....Galchy and Gallagher getting the boot for a mistake, I see all the vets not getting it despite their poor play...most of which aren,t french. I see Leblanc being sent in Hamilton in the 1st day despite a fine camp.....I see Dumont being recalled after everybody was recalled before.....I see Bournival who despite some great play...isn't used as much as I'd like to see him.....I mean, come on.

You cannot use the DD and the Bouillon utilisation and the Brière signing as THE PROOF that the french are invading and are bad for your health. There are TONS of other examples that there are just as other stuff going on and the said players only say bonjour....

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11-12-2013, 06:46 AM
  #379
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very good points
Where?

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11-12-2013, 06:46 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
My examples are pertinent. Your "take it or leave it" BS is just that and shows the intolerance that underlies the problem. "Follow another team" is not clever.

The Montreal Canadiens could have a Gm and coach that doesn't speak a word of French and the team wouldn't miss a beat. A net benefit could be argued and has been argued.

The doomsday crowd should pick a better cause, like global warming , to run their scare tactics. Quebec "culture" won't crumble based on what the Canadiens do in their management circles. The team wont die if they try something different.

I am just wondering how long it will take, 30, 40, 60 years of losing before a bell goes off and someone figures this out.
100% agree. and those who play the 'language' card a l'extreme (including the enablers in the media) - are precisely to blame for the pressure - and ultimately the reason guys like Lecavalier (and lesser players who believed their own hype) like latendresse never come here and never succeed. we get it, it's more than hockey. i get it, i'm a bilingual montrealer - fans outside of montreal love the history. but don't make the habs the linguistic trojan horse at the expense of winning. look to the arts, music etc as that source of cultural pride

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11-12-2013, 06:48 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The Alouettes and the Impact are not historical teams, and there's less francophone talent in those sports than there is in the NHL.
Really? how long have the Als been around? Care to guess? and the Als have never had franco and anglo montreal stars? get a clue

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11-12-2013, 06:49 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The Alouettes and the Impact are not historical teams, and there's less francophone talent in those sports than there is in the NHL.
Hockey is subject to the same supply and demand problems albeit on a different scale.

Montreal limits itself to 3 or 4 candidates for GM, and a couple available coaches. What other team in a major sport does this to itself?

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11-12-2013, 06:56 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
My examples are pertinent. Your "take it or leave it" BS is just that and shows the intolerance that underlies the problem. "Follow another team" is not clever.

The Montreal Canadiens could have a Gm and coach that doesn't speak a word of French and the team wouldn't miss a beat. A net benefit could be argued and has been argued.

The doomsday crowd should pick a better cause, like global warming , to run their scare tactics. Quebec "culture" won't crumble based on what the Canadiens do in their management circles. The team wont die if they try something different.

I am just wondering how long it will take, 30, 40, 60 years of losing before a bell goes off and someone figures this out.
they are NOT pertinent, filling the Expos team with francos only would have been almost possible as there's probably less than 1% of the MLB plaayers who know french... not pertinent

and there's no crowd, no fans, no hats and jersey to sell in aviation, as long as they understand eachother it does not matter what language they speak... they could speak Sumerian and it still would be fine. not pertinent.

one would be extremely polite to use the word "bad" to describe your examples.


considering every french speaking fan of the Habs KNOW FULL WELL the team is ran in english, that every player speak english, that every game and every practice is in english, that every meeting is in english... and they ACCEPT IT... I really wonder what intolerence you're speaking of... your own to everything french related maybe ?


and dont worry, it's been figured out already as no one here is old enough to remember last time someone with zero knowledge of french coached the Habs to a Stanley Cup...

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11-12-2013, 06:56 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
True but hopefully a % of the 'francophone factor' will put success on the ice in front of hiring and paying mediocre francophone coaches / players, so that the habs can return to a time when they dominated using a mixture of both, with ultimately the only language that matters - winning
Winning is the most important language but it is not the only language. The Habs are a Quebec icon and people want to see a French Canadian presence on the team. That's how it goes. Considering the Habs have ~200 million in revenue, a 5% difference in fan support means 10 million dollars a year. There's also the issue that the Habs are on top (financially) because they are a Quebec icon, Molson should not risk that. He is the caretaker of a cherished public symbol in Quebec, and he should respect and honour that.

Aside from that, I reject the dichotomy between having a francophone presence on the team and winning. Several recent Stanley Cup winners had French Canadian players on their teams: Kris Letang, Max Talbot, Patrice Bergeron, etc. There are decent French Canadian players out there, there was no need for Bergevin to bring in a sub-mediocrity like David Desharnais and treat him like he is le petit prince. Even among recent Habs players, Maxim Lapierre and Benoit Pouliot were both available last summer, and are both more useful players to have on your roster. Louis Leblanc would be a better player. BTW Michael Bournival is born in Shawinigan.

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11-12-2013, 06:58 AM
  #385
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I wonder what would be the Toronto people and media and Don Cherry's reaction if the Maple Leafs hired an unilingual french speaking head coach.

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11-12-2013, 06:59 AM
  #386
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Well, I feel bad in saying it because I don't want to believe it. I also don't want to sound Anti-French because I'm not. (Though I am anti-Nordique.)

But why the hell else would we sign Briere? I meant the guy is EXACTLY what we don't need and what we said we're trying to get away from. So why did we sign him?

I can't see any other reason.

I've read your posts about having local flavour and I agree with them. Quebec (whether people want to admit it or not) is not like Ontario and language is a big deal. Fans want players they can relate to so it only makes sense to get some French players.

My problem is that we shouldn't do it at the expense of the team and that's what I think we did here. I don't think this was a hockey move. I think this was window dressing. And we ****ed ourselves to do it. And as a fan that's extremely frustrating. DD for four years? Why? Can't figure that one out either. Does he do it if the guys' name is Dan Smith? I don't think he does.

Maybe I'm wrong but man those are puzzling moves.
See my post to Habs. Not going to rewrite it. Resume: A bad move involving a french player = "bad move solely based on language". A bad move not involving a french player = "Bad hockey move". MAKES NO SENSE. DD wasn't having the season he's having when we signed him. And Bergevin thought Brière would help the PP and in the playoffs. We got Ryder for Cole and Ryder was great in regular season. Was still Ryder though...the same uni-dimensional player.....So we need something different...aside from Jagr...what was up there in UFA market.

Answer this.....if the Habs management knew Bournival would fit right in in a top 6 or top 9 role...do you seriously think we'd go for Brière??? Doesn't Bournival FIT in the language issue?

We can be skeptical of Bergevin....but it goes BEYOND the language.

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11-12-2013, 06:59 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
Really? how long have the Als been around? Care to guess? and the Als have never had franco and anglo montreal stars? get a clue
You really comparing the historical significance of the Alouettes to that of the Habs?


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11-12-2013, 07:00 AM
  #388
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Hi, going further in the playoffs gives you more revenue, having more Franco players does not.

Bye.

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11-12-2013, 07:01 AM
  #389
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I wonder what would be the Toronto people and media and Don Cherry's reaction if the Maple Leafs hired an unilingual french speaking head coach.
They are going to reply that english IS the universal hockey language and that every coach should speak that language. But on the same breath, the same people had already mentioned that in Montreal, we should go with THE BEST coach even if he only speaks russian.....Go figure. Double standards rides again. As if the best coach was so easy to determine and on the same level as the best player.....

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11-12-2013, 07:02 AM
  #390
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Hi, going further in the playoffs gives you more revenue, having more Franco players does not.

Bye.
As we saw over the last years when the number of french players regressed and the Habs have become that big powerhouse cup contendingb playoffs monster....


Last edited by Whitesnake: 11-12-2013 at 07:20 AM.
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11-12-2013, 07:03 AM
  #391
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Really? how long have the Als been around? Care to guess? and the Als have never had franco and anglo montreal stars? get a clue
funny thing is, the vast majority of Als/Impact fnbase is ok with having french speaking staff on their team, be it coaches, players, directors of this and that...

I could go a little further and say NO ONE ever complained when one of those two teams hired a french coach/player/management staff/etc... and I'd be right

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11-12-2013, 07:12 AM
  #392
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Hi, going further in the playoffs gives you more revenue, having more Franco players does not.

Bye.
you'd be surprised...

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11-12-2013, 07:13 AM
  #393
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send him to Hamilton. Free up cap.

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11-12-2013, 07:20 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Hockey is subject to the same supply and demand problems albeit on a different scale.

Montreal limits itself to 3 or 4 candidates for GM, and a couple available coaches. What other team in a major sport does this to itself?
Everybody who, in the end, will most likely go with their own favorites. But nobody will say it's not a tougher job to do....you just need to be more prepared. And frankly....I don,t think it's that much more difficult. What Jon Cooper is doing right now, people thought Guy Boucher would be doing it. I've never heard such rave reviews from players going out of their way to praise him and then....no job. But for every Jon Cooper, there is also the next Scotty Bowman, that clown that is Dallas Eakins also...

Yes. We have a different market. We need to do the best we can to satisfy everybody. Surely, winning is the only thing that matters. But I will bet you can do both. You will need to work hard and prepare yourself. Take J-F Houle and put him with the Dogs as assistant. Groom other candidates. Watch what the franco assistant are doing with their respective teams, from Pascal Vincent, to Tourigny in Colorado etc...There are candidates out there. And since NOBODY can know what coach is GREAT or will do GREAT....you do go with the franco coach, but what you think is the best out there.

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11-12-2013, 07:37 AM
  #395
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Everybody who, in the end, will most likely go with their own favorites. But nobody will say it's not a tougher job to do....you just need to be more prepared. And frankly....I don,t think it's that much more difficult. What Jon Cooper is doing right now, people thought Guy Boucher would be doing it. I've never heard such rave reviews from players going out of their way to praise him and then....no job. But for every Jon Cooper, there is also the next Scotty Bowman, that clown that is Dallas Eakins also...

Yes. We have a different market. We need to do the best we can to satisfy everybody. Surely, winning is the only thing that matters. But I will bet you can do both. You will need to work hard and prepare yourself. Take J-F Houle and put him with the Dogs as assistant. Groom other candidates. Watch what the franco assistant are doing with their respective teams, from Pascal Vincent, to Tourigny in Colorado etc...There are candidates out there. And since NOBODY can know what coach is GREAT or will do GREAT....you do go with the franco coach, but what you think is the best out there.
I appreciate what you wrote, but these 2 statements represent conflicting objectives.

This team finds itself operating with so many real constraints it shouldn't be willing to add to the list voluntarily.

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11-12-2013, 07:55 AM
  #396
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They are going to reply that english IS the universal hockey language and that every coach should speak that language. But on the same breath, the same people had already mentioned that in Montreal, we should go with THE BEST coach even if he only speaks russian.....Go figure. Double standards rides again. As if the best coach was so easy to determine and on the same level as the best player.....
No, I would reply that I have never really gave it a second thought what language the coach or coaches speak or have spoken. Honestly, the only one that I even remember speaking another language was Pat Burns and at that point I thought, "Neat, he speaks french. Wonder if he does it properly". I thought that because when I see some MPs on the news speaking in the house, their French is just horrible. Anyway, I digress, it literally never even enters my mind what language the coach speaks, just as long as he does it (coaching) well.

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11-12-2013, 08:02 AM
  #397
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since the habs are constrained by having to reach into a smaller pool of coaches/GM's - Molson should develop the concept he has been using this year which is to offer free french lessons to players - and extend that to management he is targeting. If someone like Babcock or Stan Bowman took lessons - even very part-time with modest gains - the unilingual franco population would be fine with the effort and attempts...especially if the product on the ice was successful and entertaining. i have no doubt

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11-12-2013, 08:04 AM
  #398
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This is DD thread and its a battle between french/english, hockey/other sports. Zzzzz

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11-12-2013, 08:15 AM
  #399
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Because Coderre's tweet, I think DD saved a couple of more weeks in the NHL since I doubt the Habs will send him down right after showing their annoyance with the tweet.

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11-12-2013, 08:25 AM
  #400
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I don't think they would have sent him down to begin with.
Desharnais could use a game or two in the AHL to regain his confidence. But at the same time, it could harm his confidence even more. Double edged sword.

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