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The Workout Thread Part II - I do 3 sets of nutrition

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11-12-2013, 10:15 PM
  #376
cassius
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
But absolutely no wheat. Apparently, if neanderthals didn't eat it (and they ate basically nothing that we eat today) you shouldn't eat it.

The Paleo diet is ********. The basic premise of the diet is correct, eat lean proteins, tons of fruit and veggies, and nuts but the science and history of it is super sketchy. At the end of the day, it's just a marketing ploy. A successful one, mind you.
Hmm.. I am not sure I agree with you at all. There's lots of folks that have achieved good results on a paleo type diet.

At the end of the day, you gotta go with what your body responds best with. I know when I was eating a ton of carbs and lifting, I gained muscle but a lot of it went straight to my gut.

Now that I cut back and stick to a Paleo-ish diet (I still eat bagels, oatmeal, bread, etc.. just a lot more sparingly than I used to), I'm seeing crazy results. It's all about experimenting with different diets to see what your body responds best to. For me, high protein (200g per day) and moderate carb (150G per day) is working out perfectly.

If you ask me, #1 reason why people have excess body fat is because they consume way too many processed, simple carbs. The main driver behind that is.. you guessed it: $. Processed, high calorie, high carbhydrate foods are ridicuously cheap. Look at a bag of Doritos or a 20oz bottle of Pepsi. Given how many carbs/calories are packed in those foods, the cost is extremely low. If you walk into a convenience store, you could buy probably 2000 calories worth of food for $4 without trying too hard. Granted, it's all absolute garbage with 0 nutritional value, but that is a different story.

There's a ton of economic forces behind this and without going into too much detail, it goes back to the familiar cast of characters: Washington, rich corporations, and powerful lobbyists.

Sugars are subsidized by the department of agriculture, so essentially these foods are available at "below market" prices. Companies can then produce junk food at below market prices, invest massive amounts in proven marketing campaigns (putting lipstick on a pig), and then sell this junk to the masses. It then creates a cycle where people get extremely addicted to these foods.

The government is basically putting money in the pockets of rich corporations like Frito Lay, who sell junk food that ultimately destroys peoples health. It's a great example of how counter intuitive the world can be at times. You would think that the government would subsidize healthy foods and place huge taxes on junk food, which would steer people in the right direction. Instead, it's actually the total opposite.

For folks who live a sedentary lifestyle (i.e. 9-5'ers, students), I see no reason why they should be eating 300G+ of carbs a day. That's a fast track to diabetes if you ask me. There is no reason to be consuming that many carbs unless you are a serious runner, biker, or you work an extremely physically demanding job

If this whole country bought into the Paleo trend, obesity would immediately decrease and health premiums would go down. Instead, people are totally in the dark when it comes to nutrition and they end up making poor choices. With universal healthcare rolling out, ultimately you and I are paying for these "poor decisions" in the form of higher insurance premiums.

Okay that was a massive tangent, but you get the idea. I really don't think Paleo is as bad as you are making it out to be. In my mind, Paleo is a very useful solution to the high carb, high sugar, high processed food diet that is driving the obesity epidemic in the US.


Last edited by cassius: 11-12-2013 at 10:34 PM.
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11-13-2013, 07:55 AM
  #377
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I haven't read your whole post yet but I wanted to emphasize that I don't think the diet isn't good for you because it can be and may people have been successful with it. What I was arguing with was the notion that it is what caveman ate, because it's not. The premise behind the paleo diet is that we should eat what neanderthals ate because they survived through evolution (survival of the fittest) and that humans have had health problems since the dawn of agriculture.

The problem with this premise is that nearly everything we eat today was "created" since the dawn of agriculture. The meat, fruit, and veggies we eat are nearly all farmed. The meat isn't nearly as lean or gamy as what our ancestors would have eaten. Broccoli for instance, was breeded in the 6th century in the northern Mediterranean. Additionally, there were many different ancient people groups in different areas of the world. Based on their climate, they ate vastly different diets. The paleo diet doesn't seem to account for those differences. So this notion that we can eat what the caveman ate is ludicrous.

So basically this diet says we should eat lean proteins, lots of veggies, fruit, and nuts and seeds. Yeah that just sounds like a healthy diet haha. Trying to attach that to eating like a caveman is pure marketing. Also, SOME people use this diet as an excuse to eat unhealthy meats. Of course, some vegetarians and vegans use their diet as an excuse to eat vegan cupcakes all day (after all they are vegan haha).

My problem with the paleo diet are how it is being marketed and their disdain for whole grains. They argue that since our ancestors didn't eat it, we shouldn't. As I explained above, that's an absurd premise since can't eat what our ancestors ate. Plus, from the research I have done, people have been grinding wheat to make flour in some cultures 30,000 years ago. I think it's safe to say that whole grains CAN be a healthy part or one's diet (unless they have Celiac's or gluten intolerance in which case they should refrain from eating grains with gluten).

Anyway, I wasn't attempting to criticize people who have had success following that diet. I just don't like a false narrative to make money. The people pimping the paleo diet are making bank. Good for them but I find it necessary to inform people of the research I have done on it's premise. If anyone is interested, there is a Ted Talk that "debunks" the paleo diet in terms of the premise like I attempted to do here.


Last edited by Shady Machine: 11-13-2013 at 08:06 AM.
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11-13-2013, 08:03 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
Hmm.. I am not sure I agree with you at all. There's lots of folks that have achieved good results on a paleo type diet.

At the end of the day, you gotta go with what your body responds best with. I know when I was eating a ton of carbs and lifting, I gained muscle but a lot of it went straight to my gut.

Now that I cut back and stick to a Paleo-ish diet (I still eat bagels, oatmeal, bread, etc.. just a lot more sparingly than I used to), I'm seeing crazy results. It's all about experimenting with different diets to see what your body responds best to. For me, high protein (200g per day) and moderate carb (150G per day) is working out perfectly.

If you ask me, #1 reason why people have excess body fat is because they consume way too many processed, simple carbs. The main driver behind that is.. you guessed it: $. Processed, high calorie, high carbhydrate foods are ridicuously cheap. Look at a bag of Doritos or a 20oz bottle of Pepsi. Given how many carbs/calories are packed in those foods, the cost is extremely low. If you walk into a convenience store, you could buy probably 2000 calories worth of food for $4 without trying too hard. Granted, it's all absolute garbage with 0 nutritional value, but that is a different story.

There's a ton of economic forces behind this and without going into too much detail, it goes back to the familiar cast of characters: Washington, rich corporations, and powerful lobbyists.

Sugars are subsidized by the department of agriculture, so essentially these foods are available at "below market" prices. Companies can then produce junk food at below market prices, invest massive amounts in proven marketing campaigns (putting lipstick on a pig), and then sell this junk to the masses. It then creates a cycle where people get extremely addicted to these foods.

The government is basically putting money in the pockets of rich corporations like Frito Lay, who sell junk food that ultimately destroys peoples health. It's a great example of how counter intuitive the world can be at times. You would think that the government would subsidize healthy foods and place huge taxes on junk food, which would steer people in the right direction. Instead, it's actually the total opposite.

For folks who live a sedentary lifestyle (i.e. 9-5'ers, students), I see no reason why they should be eating 300G+ of carbs a day. That's a fast track to diabetes if you ask me. There is no reason to be consuming that many carbs unless you are a serious runner, biker, or you work an extremely physically demanding job

If this whole country bought into the Paleo trend, obesity would immediately decrease and health premiums would go down. Instead, people are totally in the dark when it comes to nutrition and they end up making poor choices. With universal healthcare rolling out, ultimately you and I are paying for these "poor decisions" in the form of higher insurance premiums.

Okay that was a massive tangent, but you get the idea. I really don't think Paleo is as bad as you are making it out to be. In my mind, Paleo is a very useful solution to the high carb, high sugar, high processed food diet that is driving the obesity epidemic in the US.
Now having read your post, I wanted to say that I 100% agree with everything you said here. Again, my criticism was with the theory behind paleo and not the general diet that they promote. What you are eating in your diet sounds like the perfect balance. I also totally agree that we need to listen to our bodies. Having one standard diet for every person just doesn't make sense.

You hit the nail on the head with the high amounts of sugar in the American diet. What is killing this nation is simple carbs, not whole grains (which is where I think the paleo diet is flawed). One interesting tidbit I picked up from the Ted Talk I referenced above is the ridiculous amount of sugar in soda (which I already knew but this helps put in context). In order to obtain the amount of sugar in 1 32 oz bottle of Mountain Dew (something a lot of Americans drink several times a week), a caveman would have had to eat over 8 feet of sugar cane. Eight ****ing feet of sugar cane. THAT is disgusting.

I probably over reacted about it's negativity. I have a friend that took the paleo diet to the extreme and that is where some of my disdain came from. He went from eating a mostly vegetarian diet to dropping whole grains altogether and eating bacon and putting grass fed butter in his coffee (he got the butter idea from another diet but still). Because of his drastic diet changes, I started researching more paleo stuff and came to the conclusion I discussed above.

Anyway, sorry to derail the workout thread.


Last edited by Shady Machine: 11-13-2013 at 08:10 AM.
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11-13-2013, 08:50 AM
  #379
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Not to speak for anybody else but me personally, I just eat fresh foods. Lean meats, fish, nuts, vegetables and fruits and try to cut out unnatural sugars. I haven't spent any money on anything (except food itself, eating healthy costs more) and I don't take it to an extreme either. I'll eat grains when I feel like it, usually when I'm at somebody's house or a restaurant. I couldn't care less what cavemen ate lol.

I still like eating sweets or chips on occasion but honestly, it kind of makes me feel sick so it's not worth it. I'd much rather snack on berries, grapes or grab a banana if I need a sugar fix.

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11-13-2013, 10:28 AM
  #380
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Not to speak for anybody else but me personally, I just eat fresh foods. Lean meats, fish, nuts, vegetables and fruits and try to cut out unnatural sugars. I haven't spent any money on anything (except food itself, eating healthy costs more) and I don't take it to an extreme either. I'll eat grains when I feel like it, usually when I'm at somebody's house or a restaurant. I couldn't care less what cavemen ate lol.

I still like eating sweets or chips on occasion but honestly, it kind of makes me feel sick so it's not worth it. I'd much rather snack on berries, grapes or grab a banana if I need a sugar fix.
Sounds good to me. The only "issue" with the meat is the unknown long term effects of eating meat from animals that have been fed unnatural diets, hormones, and constant medication to keep them from getting sick from these unnatural diets. At this point we just don't know what type of effect that can have on our health (of course the same applies to pesticides on fruits and veggies). But yeah, unless you have a lot of money, it's hard to avoid these things.

It sounds like you eat a very healthy diet. Keep at it.

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11-13-2013, 11:36 AM
  #381
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Sounds good to me. The only "issue" with the meat is the unknown long term effects of eating meat from animals that have been fed unnatural diets, hormones, and constant medication to keep them from getting sick from these unnatural diets. At this point we just don't know what type of effect that can have on our health (of course the same applies to pesticides on fruits and veggies). But yeah, unless you have a lot of money, it's hard to avoid these things.

It sounds like you eat a very healthy diet. Keep at it.
Well I'm definitely not going to stop eating meat haha. Most of the fish I eat is stuff I've caught myself so at least I know where that's coming from. This time of year I also get some deer/moose meat from family and friends too.

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11-13-2013, 01:03 PM
  #382
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Well I'm definitely not going to stop eating meat haha. Most of the fish I eat is stuff I've caught myself so at least I know where that's coming from. This time of year I also get some deer/moose meat from family and friends too.
Yeah my point wasn't that people should stop eating meat but rather they should buy it from farmers that raise chickens, cattle, pigs outdoors feeding them their natural diet without hormones. The problem with that is it's really expensive because of how difficult it is for a farmer to afford to compete in the market place. So the price is really high and most consumers can't afford it (myself included).

It may turn out that eating foods with modern day pesticides don't pose any serious healthy risks. The reality though is that we just don't have firm answers on that.

I'm all for people eating animals from hunting, catching their own fish, etc.

My discussion is speaking more of the most ideal diet rather than the most realistic (which means it's probably not helpful and I should just shut up haha).

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05-07-2014, 07:40 AM
  #383
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Resurrecting this thread!

Went to the doctor 3 weeks ago today for persistent pain in my shoulder and knee. Took X-rays, nothing showed up. Turns out I was just weak. He suggested wall squats to build strength. You know you're weak when someone suggests wall squats to get stronger.

So I went home, moved my rack from my garage to my basement, and started doing barbell training again. It's been 3 weeks and I feel 100% better. My shoulder isn't completely better yet but I can feel the difference just from working the stabilizers from overhead pressing. My knee is just about 100% now (been doing yoga stretches to supplement barbell squats).

I also decided to go vegan about 3 months ago (for moral reasons, not health related) and I wasn't getting nearly the amount of protein I needed. I found a pea protein isolate (that is the only ingredient) from NOW brand. It has 24g of protein per scoop with a full amino acid profile and doesn't taste terrible. Also gave up alcohol around that time and don't miss those calories at all.

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05-07-2014, 08:57 AM
  #384
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I also decided to go vegan about 3 months ago (for moral reasons, not health related) and I wasn't getting nearly the amount of protein I needed. I found a pea protein isolate (that is the only ingredient) from NOW brand. It has 24g of protein per scoop with a full amino acid profile and doesn't taste terrible. Also gave up alcohol around that time and don't miss those calories at all.
Use that protein in a shake with 1/2 cup of dry oats, 1 TBS flax oil and a banana. That way you have a 450 calorie, high protein meal instead of just protein. Also, tofu, tempeh and tvp are your friends. There is no reason that you can't get adequate protein on a vegan diet. Just be sure to include healthy fats (flax, coconut, almonds, etc.) and don't eat any refined carbs if you can help it.

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05-07-2014, 09:02 AM
  #385
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I had my best offseason ever and am back under 10% body fat. FYI, the Jacob's Ladder is the most brutal cardio machine ever invented. Brought my weighted vest and adjustable kettle bell handle to work and now I do weighted burpees 2 x week and KB swings 1 x week. Mountain bike season has started and the Jacob's Ladder turned out to be the perfect training tool as I'm absolutely crushing my current gearing setup. Look forward to where I end up by the end of the year, but hopefully some podium finishes.

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05-07-2014, 09:04 AM
  #386
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Don't google Jacob's ladder with safe search turned off.

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05-07-2014, 09:08 AM
  #387
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Don't google Jacob's ladder with safe search turned off.
Ha! There are some videos out there of Letang using one, but seeing him use one is much more intimidating than inspiring

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05-07-2014, 09:10 AM
  #388
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Use that protein in a shake with 1/2 cup of dry oats, 1 TBS flax oil and a banana. That way you have a 450 calorie, high protein meal instead of just protein. Also, tofu, tempeh and tvp are your friends. There is no reason that you can't get adequate protein on a vegan diet. Just be sure to include healthy fats (flax, coconut, almonds, etc.) and don't eat any refined carbs if you can help it.
Yeah I take it with a normal meal. I stay away from soy though, it's bad stuff when you eat the amounts required to sustain adequate protein levels as a vegan (mimics estrogen). That's why I went with the pea protein as opposed to soy protein.

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05-07-2014, 09:14 AM
  #389
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Ha! There are some videos out there of Letang using one, but seeing him use one is much more intimidating than inspiring
Yeah I remember that, was crazy stuff.

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05-07-2014, 09:15 AM
  #390
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Yeah I take it with a normal meal. I stay away from soy though, it's bad stuff when you eat the amounts required to sustain adequate protein levels as a vegan (mimics estrogen). That's why I went with the pea protein as opposed to soy protein.
I believe that subject was already exhausted to death in this thread and there is no evidence to substantiate that claim (which was based on survey data in an older study). You are free to eat whatever you want, but soy doesn't negatively affect hormonal levels in men.

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05-07-2014, 09:47 AM
  #391
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I believe that subject was already exhausted to death in this thread and there is no evidence to substantiate that claim (which was based on survey data in an older study). You are free to eat whatever you want, but soy doesn't negatively affect hormonal levels in men.
I've read a lot on the topic. Based on what I have read, I can easily justify not wanting to base my protein intake around soy protein (especially not soy protein isolate). Moderation is fine, it's the huge quantities of soy (and the phytoestrogens, specifically isoflavones) that would be necessary to sustain adequate protein levels that I am wary of.

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