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Let's face the truth, this is not a good team.

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Old
11-09-2013, 12:19 PM
  #151
Dagistitsyn
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They found their new secret weapon for shootouts.. Murray
http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...480508&lang=en

No more Pacioretty in the shootout.

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11-13-2013, 07:04 AM
  #152
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Desja vue?

This team is going nowhere....fast.
Injuries or not, this team is going from the middle of the pack to the bottom of the pack.
The habs have a good core but just not the right mix in the supporting cast. MB must see this and still nothing done from him aside from playing YO-YO with the farm players.
The biggest needs is a STUD CENTER(prefer a RHC) and 2 TOP PAIRING D.
With Emelin coming back, we need one more.

This team can't compete vs a good fore check and is becoming passive.
Time for MB to put some GM pants on.

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Old
11-13-2013, 07:30 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
The point is that they would still have to shed around 4m in salary, which means giving up other players that they depend on. They felt Silfverberg could provide similar production at a fraction of the cost. Looking at their roster they don't have many other players that can be traded for young players that could step in and fill the role.


No one is talking about throwing away draft picks. If you trade a 1st for a core player that is with you for 3-4 years then it's not throwing away. Most late 1st round picks don't ever become core players to begin with. We've traded away 1 1st round pick in 14 years, yet somehow this has killed our callup depth.
There is a high probability we have a top ten pick this year. One good winger coming in may not change that. The risk is too high.

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11-13-2013, 07:49 AM
  #154
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Team should be better than this. Look at the talent...Price likely starter for Canada. Subban the Norris winner, Markov been good, the EGG line, Plekanec having a good year. They just don't have the right chemistry. But we see if Habs improve a notch when Elemin gets back? Because last year they sagged when he went down to injury.

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11-13-2013, 07:59 AM
  #155
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There is a high probability we have a top ten pick this year. One good winger coming in may not change that. The risk is too high.
top ten pick are great and all but you can still build a winner without a sniff in the top 10. I'm getting the feeling thay this management wouldn't know what to do with such pick.
Myself personaly, I would look to move such pick.

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11-13-2013, 08:57 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Team should be better than this. Look at the talent...Price likely starter for Canada. Subban the Norris winner, Markov been good, the EGG line, Plekanec having a good year. They just don't have the right chemistry. But we see if Habs improve a notch when Elemin gets back? Because last year they sagged when he went down to injury.
I think we tend overrate both our veterans and our prospects. I know that I can be guilty of that and for all the good players we have, we have a lot of guys who are marginal at best. At least three of our six defensemen on any given night barely play at the NHL level. Gionta and Briere are both well past their best-before dates, Desharnais isn't contributing, Bournival is still learning the game at the NHL level, we aren't big enough at forward or on defense.

Emelin will help but a lot of deadwood needs to be cleared out up front and one more NHL quality defenseman would be nice. If one isn't available start working one of the one prospects into the lineup because we know that Murray and Bouillon aren't going to improve as time goes on.

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11-13-2013, 08:58 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
There is a high probability we have a top ten pick this year. One good winger coming in may not change that. The risk is too high.
Typically a top ten pick isn't a significant contributor for at least three years. What do we do in the meantime?

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Old
11-13-2013, 09:07 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
There is a high probability we have a top ten pick this year. One good winger coming in may not change that. The risk is too high.
If one good established winger won't change that, why would one unestablished prospect?

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11-13-2013, 09:13 AM
  #159
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This team is still so soft. Murray is tied for 3rd on the team and has played 8 games compared to Bouiilon's 19, Gorges' 19 and Eller's 19.

Eller leads the way with 40 hits in 19 games. Murray will likely pass Gorges in 3 games.

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11-13-2013, 09:19 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
This team is going nowhere....fast.
Injuries or not, this team is going from the middle of the pack to the bottom of the pack.
The habs have a good core but just not the right mix in the supporting cast. MB must see this and still nothing done from him aside from playing YO-YO with the farm players.
The biggest needs is a STUD CENTER(prefer a RHC) and 2 TOP PAIRING D.
With Emelin coming back, we need one more.

This team can't compete vs a good fore check and is becoming passive.
Time for MB to put some GM pants on.
I dont get how a team of players who finnished last with another regime basically keeps the same players... its like he is just satisfied... and he is a new gm... what will it be in 2-3 years I guess its gonna be similar to gainey who just loved to lose players for free instead of trade them before its too late. Im just annoyed by that.

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11-13-2013, 09:20 AM
  #161
otto bond
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
This team is still so soft. Murray is tied for 3rd on the team and has played 8 games compared to Bouiilon's 19, Gorges' 19 and Eller's 19.

Eller leads the way with 40 hits in 19 games. Murray will likely pass Gorges in 3 games.
I don't think management has the balls to do anything worth wild.
Houle eara making a comeback?

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11-13-2013, 09:20 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
This team is still so soft. Murray is tied for 3rd on the team and has played 8 games compared to Bouiilon's 19, Gorges' 19 and Eller's 19.

Eller leads the way with 40 hits in 19 games. Murray will likely pass Gorges in 3 games.
But but but.. we are a puck possesion team.. That's why we don't finish our checks... at least, that's what I read on this board.

We are soft and small.. but if only players like Bourque and Pacioretty... who are bigger than Eller, could hit a bit more than 1 hit per game, it would be a good start. Bourque has 17 hits in 18 games and MaxPac has 10 in 10. I'm not expecting them to be our powerforwards but they can at least finish their checks and make us a bit more difficult to play against.

Thank god Emelin wil be back soon though.

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11-13-2013, 09:21 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
There is a high probability we have a top ten pick this year. One good winger coming in may not change that. The risk is too high.
Don't see it. The probability is we either just make it or just miss out which doesn't get you a top-10 pick. And even with a top-10 pick chances are we don't get an impact player and it would take 3-5 years to even know that.

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11-13-2013, 09:22 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
This team is going nowhere....fast.
Injuries or not, this team is going from the middle of the pack to the bottom of the pack.
The habs have a good core but just not the right mix in the supporting cast. MB must see this and still nothing done from him aside from playing YO-YO with the farm players.
The biggest needs is a STUD CENTER(prefer a RHC) and 2 TOP PAIRING D.
With Emelin coming back, we need one more.

This team can't compete vs a good fore check and is becoming passive.
Time for MB to put some GM pants on.
Those things are so easy to find too...

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Old
11-13-2013, 09:25 AM
  #165
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First of all, we're NOT a bottom-10 team. Habs may not be elite, but they're a solid bubble team at worst, a top-10 team at best. They're NOT going to be drafting a top-10 prospect next year, which means there are NO future messiahs coming to save the day from the minors.

This blind faith in future picks has become our Waiting For Godot. We've been stockpiling picks; now it's time to run with what we have. We've got a strong core currently on the roster and a strong group of prospects. No superstars, unfortunately, but solid 2nd and 3rd line forwards with some strong defence prospects.

What's missing on the team and in our prospect pool is a sniper. The difference between last year's success and this year's problems is scoring. Yes, defence has been erratic, but if a couple of our prospects reach their potential we should be very solid on our blueline. We need a strong forward, and if none are coming from Hamilton we'll have to trade for one. So yeah, expect to give something back that's equally valuable, like our 1st-round pick, plus one or two roster players.

What are the chances Bergevin's been talking with Philly or New York? I'd say pretty good.

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Old
11-13-2013, 09:29 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
But but but.. we are a puck possesion team.. That's why we don't finish our checks... at least, that's what I read on this board.

We are soft and small.. but if only players like Bourque and Pacioretty... who are bigger than Eller, could hit a bit more than 1 hit per game, it would be a good start. Bourque has 17 hits in 18 games and MaxPac has 10 in 10. I'm not expecting them to be our powerforwards but they can at least finish their checks and make us a bit more difficult to play against.

Thank god Emelin wil be back soon though.
All 3 of them are 6'2 and over 210 I believe.Galchenyuk was even getting a bit nasty in the hitting department last night.

Emelin and Murray for constant pounding on the backened. Gorges, Subban and even Markov for the occasional hit that people feel and Diaz to be Diaz.

Habs need a player who loves to hit. Prust will bring back some physicality. Moen should start to step it up soon.

Even Gionta who's fairly physical has less than 10 hits iirc. Points wise, he's doing not bad, but overal, Gionta is just not what this team needs and I'm hoping he's let go.

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11-13-2013, 09:45 AM
  #167
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Those things are so easy to find too...
I know

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Old
11-13-2013, 09:56 AM
  #168
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Every season, 29 teams do not win the Stanley Cup.

Does that make them all losers?
If St Louis loses in the finals, does that make them the same as the Oilers?

Its not just that we're losing... it's how we're losing that is of concern.
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The Habs are not a top 5 team in the league, but they are pretty good. They do not get blown out and often are pretty entertaining. They are not stocked with 6'5" 230lb'ers, but they do pretty good.
Only reason we've not been blown out in some of these games is Price. Without the goaltending we've had we'd be far out of a playoff spot and we're barely clinging to one as it is.
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As much as you would like it to be, not every person on earth is a perfect snow flake. Not every team you root for is going to be beyond reproach.
Nobody's asking for beyond reproach but we had a real opportunity to take the next step this year. Instead we made moves that didn't make sense. And that's frustrating.
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They are a good team, they are headed in a good direction. Enjoy.
Overall, I'd agree. Heading in the right direction.

But... we're wasting prime seasons by Subban and Price. They're in their prime now, playing very well and we're barely in the playoffs at the quarter mark.

So we have to start asking ourselves if/when we should start to make moves to go for it. We had an opportunity this offseason to do something about it and we made mistakes that have hurt us. We could've been a lot better.
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I think we could surprise in the playoff if the team acquires some help at the deadline. Not necessarily superstars, but 1 or 2 players that can fit in.
We should've done this in the offseason. Instead we ****ed the dog.
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Unlike previous years I think we at least have some star power now, with Subban, Price and Galchenyuk supported by a bunch of more than decent core players like Eller, Plekanec, Pacioretty, Markov, Prust, ect. We need to build around that and that group could contend. Its much easier to enhance a core than to build it (which imho is when you need to acquire rarities like top2 defensemen, top centermen and franchise goalies, these are things we fortunately have).
I agree. The hard part is over because we have at least two elite players with a third projected to be one. We've got some good young players to build around as well.

But our vets are mostly useless, we're too small and there are huge holes on the D. We could've addressed this but we made things worse instead of better.

We're not that far off but we can't afford any more unforced mistakes like we've been making. No more stupid signings and for the love of God play Subban more in critical situations.
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i agree we are pitiful to watch against teams like st.l col and sj we should trade vets like markov, gionta, plekanec,while their value is higher than dd, remember every year at trade deadline a player has a no trade clause but lifts it when he knows he's not wanted anymore
I would trade Markov now. His value is high and he's older. Send him to a contender and get a young blueliner who can play now. Somebody who might not be as good but can grow into the role.

Problem is, that's easier said than done. Should've traded him years ago for picks and prospects and now those prospects would be in our lineup...
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A Hockey News writer apparently said on the NHL network recently that we almost had a deal where we were sending Beaulieu and Plekanec for Bobby Ryan, but Ottawa trumped us when they agreed to add a first rounder to Silfverberg.

The idea of trading Beaulieu is not far-fetched but I don't think we need to give up a first round pick -- we could probably use an existing complementary asset.

Other reason a 1st round pick is not a good idea ... as the thread title suggests, we may just have an average team this year, so that 1st round pick could be a lot more valuable than last year in terms of drafting slot.
Beaulieu and Pleks? Wow... expensive. Ryan would have been awesome though.
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There is a high probability we have a top ten pick this year. One good winger coming in may not change that. The risk is too high
This draft isn't supposed to be all that great is it?
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
First of all, we're NOT a bottom-10 team. Habs may not be elite, but they're a solid bubble team at worst, a top-10 team at best. They're NOT going to be drafting a top-10 prospect next year, which means there are NO future messiahs coming to save the day from the minors.

This blind faith in future picks has become our Waiting For Godot. We've been stockpiling picks; now it's time to run with what we have. We've got a strong core currently on the roster and a strong group of prospects. No superstars, unfortunately, but solid 2nd and 3rd line forwards with some strong defence prospects.
We have a star goalie and blueliner. No superstar forwards (yet) but we have elite talent in this lineup now for the first time in a long time.

Question is, do we go for it or continue to be patient? I understand the patience but we're wasting prime seasons from great players... exactly what I worried about five years ago. We should've rebuilt back then.

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What's missing on the team and in our prospect pool is a sniper. The difference between last year's success and this year's problems is scoring. Yes, defence has been erratic, but if a couple of our prospects reach their potential we should be very solid on our blueline. We need a strong forward, and if none are coming from Hamilton we'll have to trade for one. So yeah, expect to give something back that's equally valuable, like our 1st-round pick, plus one or two roster players.

What are the chances Bergevin's been talking with Philly or New York? I'd say pretty good.
Its more than just a sniper.

- Too small
- Big holes on the D
- Overall way too soft

Yes, we need a bonafied sniper. Pacman could've been the guy but he got hurt. But I think our D needs to be fixed before the forwards do.

Assuming Max returns to form over the next few weeks, that would give us two good lines who can score. Should be good enough. But that D is so soft and Murray and Bouillion really shouldn't be in the lineup.

MT also needs to smarten up. Bouillion and Murray together? Really? Anyone surprised that we got scored on there? Enough playing favourites already... play those who've earned it. I can understand playing Max a little more to get back into the game but enough of the Bouillion/DD experiments. Its life and death for the playoffs now. Our coach needs to be better.

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Old
11-13-2013, 09:59 AM
  #169
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WTF is it with the fixation on where we draft in the first round? That's a loser's perspective. Play to win. And David Fischer says 'hi'.

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11-13-2013, 10:09 AM
  #170
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I've come to the conclusion that this is a tweener year for us. We have most of our core identified, but they're still young and need experience. With Subban and Price approaching their primes, we're waiting on Galchenyuk.

Top 3 picks like him usually break out during their third season. That would mean we should prepare to contend by next season.

In all honesty, you can't expect to compete with Bouillon and Murray playing every game. Both are free agents in July. The good part about them playing full time is that Beaulieu and Tinordi get a full season to develop in Hamilton. They both should be ready to make the big jump next season. As such, we'll have 2 defensemen on ELC, as well as 2 top line forwards (Galch and Gally) on ELC.

With Gionta's contract finishing, and the cap going up, we should be able to sign 1 or 2 big name UFAs this summer, and there will be quite a few big name UFAs. Depending on how good our young players look, MB can finally make a big trade for another core player using a couple of his many prospects.

For now though, I'm accepting the below average performance of our team, because the players that matter the most to our future are all playing very well every game. And the most important 3 ( Subban Price Galchenyuk) are improving every game.

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11-13-2013, 10:11 AM
  #171
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But... we're wasting prime seasons by Subban and Price. They're in their prime now, playing very well and we're barely in the playoffs at the quarter mark.
I think we are not that far away from being a true contender. Indeed, we have to win with our best players in their prime = Price, Subban, Galchenyuk.

IMO
PK is 2 years away from his ceiling
Price is entering his right now
Galchenyuk is maybe 2-3 years away from his

As of right now, we should build for then and trade players who still have some value that we think would downgrade 2-3 years from now (Markov, Plekanec) to bring some assets to the team in that perspective.

We need like 2 scoring wingers that are not 5'7. That's about it.

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11-13-2013, 10:12 AM
  #172
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I've come to the conclusion that this is a tweener year for us. We have most of our core identified, but they're still young and need experience. With Subban and Price approaching their primes, we're waiting on Galchenyuk.

Top 3 picks like him usually break out during their third season. That would mean we should prepare to contend by next season.

In all honesty, you can't expect to compete with Bouillon and Murray playing every game. Both are free agents in July. The good part about them playing full time is that Beaulieu and Tinordi get a full season to develop in Hamilton. They both should be ready to make the big jump next season. As such, we'll have 2 defensemen on ELC, as well as 2 top line forwards (Galch and Gally) on ELC.

With Gionta's contract finishing, and the cap going up, we should be able to sign 1 or 2 big name UFAs this summer, and there will be quite a few big name UFAs. Depending on how good our young players look, MB can finally make a big trade for another core player using a couple of his many prospects.

For now though, I'm accepting the below average performance of our team, because the players that matter the most to our future are all playing very well every game. And the most important 3 ( Subban Price Galchenyuk) are improving every game.
The moment we signed Briere I knew it was a wasted season.

Coburn would've been a huge help to us. Jagr or Morrow... them too.

Not that far away but boy we wasted our time this past summer.

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11-13-2013, 10:16 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Blood On The Ice View Post
I think we are not that far away from being a true contender. Indeed, we have to win with our best players in their prime = Price, Subban, Galchenyuk.

IMO
PK is 2 years away from his ceiling
Price is entering his right now
Galchenyuk is maybe 2-3 years away from his

As of right now, we should build for then and trade players who still have some value that we think would downgrade 2-3 years from now (Markov, Plekanec) to bring some assets to the team in that perspective.

We need like 2 scoring wingers that are not 5'7. That's about it.
We should be so much better right now though. A solid 2nd blueliner in the offseason would've done wonders for us. (I'm not confident that Emelin is going to come back as good this year after that injury.)

As for Markov, yeah I trade him. We're not winning now and I don't see this guy being at the top of his game once we actually do start competing for cups. So deal him and get a player who can help us for the next 5-10 years instead of the next two.

Plus as an added bonus he's UFA so we'd always have the option of bringing him back next year if he wanted to do so.

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11-13-2013, 10:44 AM
  #174
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We should be so much better right now though. A solid 2nd blueliner in the offseason would've done wonders for us. (I'm not confident that Emelin is going to come back as good this year after that injury.)

As for Markov, yeah I trade him. We're not winning now and I don't see this guy being at the top of his game once we actually do start competing for cups. So deal him and get a player who can help us for the next 5-10 years instead of the next two.

Plus as an added bonus he's UFA so we'd always have the option of bringing him back next year if he wanted to do so.
Trading Markov and Plekanec will help us a lot but I think we are forced to overpay a UFA this summer. Gionta will be gone, most likely, Bourque is average and Brière is a pure waste of cap money.

Our top 9 fowards would be Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Eller, Pacioretty, Bournival, Prust (if he is still alive), Bourque and DD if he can bring his ***** together. We are missing at least 1 foward, if not 2 if DD is traded.

Let's say Makov + Plekanec brings us a scoring winger, we need another one from the market and maybe also a d-man. If I'm MB, I'm going hard for Matt Mouslon and Dan Girardi if available.

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11-13-2013, 10:53 AM
  #175
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Trading Markov and Plekanec will help us a lot but I think we are forced to overpay a UFA this summer. Gionta will be gone, most likely, Bourque is average and Brière is a pure waste of cap money.

Our top 9 fowards would be Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Eller, Pacioretty, Bournival, Prust (if he is still alive), Bourque and DD if he can bring his ***** together. We are missing at least 1 foward, if not 2 if DD is traded.

Let's say Makov + Plekanec brings us a scoring winger, we need another one from the market and maybe also a d-man. If I'm MB, I'm going hard for Matt Mouslon and Dan Girardi if available.
I'm okay hanging onto Plecs. We've become better faster than I expected and he's still young enough to help us for the next three or four years. He's a very good player and one of the few vets that's worth his icetime. I'd be reluctant to trade him right now. I'd be open to it but not to the same degree that I'd actually be actively looking at what I could get for him as I would with Markov.

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