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Old
11-13-2013, 09:21 AM
  #51
Mika Zibanejad
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it sucks when your back up plays better then your starter,

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11-13-2013, 09:28 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Fact: Anderson is better than Lehner right now. Whether you like it or not.

Help me out here Nac Mac and don't mean to be a smart arse but how is Andy better than Lehner right now? The facts the way I see it are "whether you like it or not" is that Andy has played in 12 games..is 4-5 with a 3.30 GAA and a .906 Save % whereas Lehner has been in 8 games and is 3-2 with a 2.13 GAA and a .948 Save %

On what planet do we live on does the #'s that Anderson has put up currently make him better than Lehner? Please advise because I'd really love to know how this is possible.


Fact: The team gave Andy no support last night, and NO goalie in this league would've won that game for Ottawa.

That very well might be true. Lehner IMO should still have gotten the start.


Fact: Lehner is still unproven as an NHL starter. Throwing away arguably the best goalie in the league last year for a shiny and tempermental new toy (remember not all his time in Bingo was sunshine and roses) is the stupidest thing this franchise could do.

No one is throwing away Andy or anything he did last year. But last year is exactly that...LAST YEAR. What have you done for me lately goes the adage...yes? And thus far Lehner's performance this year has blown Andy out of the water. They aren't even in the same stratosphere. Lehner has shown that he's up to the task and is proving with every game he plays that he's ready to take over. So no throwing Andy away. Let them split time for now and see who performs better going forward...simple as that.

Anderson needed to get a start in, and Philly - on paper - was the best opponent for him to get back into the groove.

Disagree. Lehner had just won past 3 games...2 of them by himself. You don't interfere with the momentum gained putting in your mediocre supposedly #1 goalie in as invariably teams end up chitting the bed as what occured last night.

Lehner is the goalie of the future. Key word: Future. Rush him now when the team in front of him is steamy garbage and you'll risk ruining his potential. You want a potential great #1 or an average #1? Push him now and we're stuck with the latter.

Sometimes the future ends up hitting you square in the face a little faster than you expected. That is what is happening here bud. Deal with it. Giving Lehner the gig now won't hinder his development at all. He's ready and all he needs is a chance to run with the #1 gig. Unfortunately due to financial issues, he won't and that's a shame.

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11-13-2013, 09:37 AM
  #53
Nac Mac Feegle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus View Post

Fact: Anderson is better than Lehner right now. Whether you like it or not.

Help me out here Nac Mac and don't mean to be a smart arse but how is Andy better than Lehner right now? The facts the way I see it are "whether you like it or not" is that Andy has played in 12 games..is 4-5 with a 3.30 GAA and a .906 Save % whereas Lehner has been in 8 games and is 3-2 with a 2.13 GAA and a .948 Save %

On what planet do we live on does the #'s that Anderson has put up currently make him better than Lehner? Please advise because I'd really love to know how this is possible.


Fact: The team gave Andy no support last night, and NO goalie in this league would've won that game for Ottawa.

That very well might be true. Lehner IMO should still have gotten the start.


Fact: Lehner is still unproven as an NHL starter. Throwing away arguably the best goalie in the league last year for a shiny and tempermental new toy (remember not all his time in Bingo was sunshine and roses) is the stupidest thing this franchise could do.

No one is throwing away Andy or anything he did last year. But last year is exactly that...LAST YEAR. What have you done for me lately goes the adage...yes? And thus far Lehner's performance this year has blown Andy out of the water. They aren't even in the same stratosphere. Lehner has shown that he's up to the task and is proving with every game he plays that he's ready to take over. So no throwing Andy away. Let them split time for now and see who performs better going forward...simple as that.

Anderson needed to get a start in, and Philly - on paper - was the best opponent for him to get back into the groove.

Disagree. Lehner had just won past 3 games...2 of them by himself. You don't interfere with the momentum gained putting in your mediocre supposedly #1 goalie in as invariably teams end up chitting the bed as what occured last night.

Lehner is the goalie of the future. Key word: Future. Rush him now when the team in front of him is steamy garbage and you'll risk ruining his potential. You want a potential great #1 or an average #1? Push him now and we're stuck with the latter.

Sometimes the future ends up hitting you square in the face a little faster than you expected. That is what is happening here bud. Deal with it. Giving Lehner the gig now won't hinder his development at all. He's ready and all he needs is a chance to run with the #1 gig. Unfortunately due to financial issues, he won't and that's a shame.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Andy had virtually no support so far this season and has faced a mountain of shots already. He has won us games and sent us into OT this year.

The team has been playing better in front of Lehner because they know he is the #2 and have been giving him more support. If they played like that for Andy we'd have a few more wins under our belt this year.

Financial issues have nothing to do with our netminders. Talk about a strawman argument.

Give Lehner the #1 now and, at best, youhave a Carey Price.
Work with him and ease him into the #1 spot in a year or two, and you potentially have the next Lundqvist.

Sorry for your fantasy team, but I want to develop the guy into a Lundqvist for us for the next 10 years, not win some ****** hockey pool right now.

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Old
11-13-2013, 09:41 AM
  #54
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Goaltending is the least of my concerns right now. It's still very refreshing to be able to trust either netminder, considering team history.

Gerber/Elliott/Auld anyone?

Lehner will get more chances. I bet he plays Friday. He plays lights out against the Bruins.

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Old
11-13-2013, 09:50 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about. Andy had virtually no support so far this season and has faced a mountain of shots already. He has won us games and sent us into OT this year.

The team has been playing better in front of Lehner because they know he is the #2 and have been giving him more support. If they played like that for Andy we'd have a few more wins under our belt this year.
I love Andy and have been one of his biggest supporters but frankly I find this ridiculous.

Lehner set the record for shots against how many times this year? More support?

Andy had some good saves against the Flyers but let in a few stinkers as well.

Obviously he's not to blame for the loss, but he wasn't standing on his head yesterday either.

I'd say you go with the hot hand - when Lehner loses, you go back to Andy.

If anything, it's unfair to Anderson to put him in after Lehner's performance last week as NHL #1 star because these kinds of questions crop up after the loss.

In any event, both goalies are going to struggle at times with the way the team plays in front of them.

I certainly don't see any clear distinction in how the team has played in front of either goalie. Lehner may have faced some easier competition in the past week but I don't think you can say the team played any better.

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Old
11-13-2013, 10:00 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about. Andy had virtually no support so far this season and has faced a mountain of shots already. He has won us games and sent us into OT this year.

The team has been playing better in front of Lehner because they know he is the #2 and have been giving him more support. If they played like that for Andy we'd have a few more wins under our belt this year.

Financial issues have nothing to do with our netminders. Talk about a strawman argument.

Give Lehner the #1 now and, at best, youhave a Carey Price.
Work with him and ease him into the #1 spot in a year or two, and you potentially have the next Lundqvist.

Sorry for your fantasy team, but I want to develop the guy into a Lundqvist for us for the next 10 years, not win some ****** hockey pool right now.
Dude I know exactly what I'm talking about. Played the game for many years and have followed the NHL closely not just my Rangers for over 30 years so I know what I speak. And as I mentioned, I'm pretty dang versed on your Sens as well despite me being a Ranger fan having been married for 10 years to a gal from Ottawa and have been to Ottawa dozens of times and in fact went to Scotia Bank Place for a few games. So I know what I'm talking about.

Forget the BS fantasy implications, I own both of them so it really doesn't matter from that angle...so long as my guy plays well I'm happy which is the credo of any fantasy owner. I'm talking from a purely hockey perspective.

That's a bunch of BS this crap "the team plays better cause Robin is the #2". What a horse manure excuse. The team plays better under Lehner because Lehner has been there to save the teams bacon time after time time. He's been the one shelled NOT Andeson. Anderson has had a few good games....that's it. Lehner has not had a bad one yet though maybe the Oiler game wasn't all that terrific he still only gave up 2 goals which normally is enough to win a hockey game.

And your wrong hoss, financial stuff does have something to do with what is going on. I'd bet a significant amount of scratch had Lehner already signed his bridge contract by now, considering how the two of them are playing, Lehner would be getting more playing time going forward. Heck he may get more time anyways but it would be more of a guarantee.

Take your head out of the sand bro. Lehner has been MUCH MUCH better than Andy this year and cut the excuses that the team wants to play better for the backup rather than the starter. Face facts, the backup is blowing away the starter...

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11-13-2013, 10:02 AM
  #57
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There's a vest gap in the difference of quality of opponents that Anderson has started against versus what Lehner has started against.

Lehner's starts: San Jose, Edmonton, New York, Columbus, Montreal and Florida.

Anderson's starts: Buffalo, Toronto, LA, Anaheim, Phoenix, New Jersey, Detroit, Anaheim, San Jose, Chicago, Dallas and Philadelphia.

Anderson's sv% against teams not in the playoffs before last night (bolded above)...95.6. He also put up commendable performances against teams like Anaheim, Detroit and Phoenix.

The defence has been absolutely awful and our goaltending has been fine from both Anderson and Lehner.

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11-13-2013, 10:09 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
Face facts, the backup is blowing away the starter...
For now.

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11-13-2013, 10:12 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
Dude I know exactly what I'm talking about. Played the game for many years and have followed the NHL closely not just my Rangers for over 30 years so I know what I speak. And as I mentioned, I'm pretty dang versed on your Sens as well despite me being a Ranger fan having been married for 10 years to a gal from Ottawa and have been to Ottawa dozens of times and in fact went to Scotia Bank Place for a few games. So I know what I'm talking about.

Forget the BS fantasy implications, I own both of them so it really doesn't matter from that angle...so long as my guy plays well I'm happy which is the credo of any fantasy owner. I'm talking from a purely hockey perspective.

That's a bunch of BS this crap "the team plays better cause Robin is the #2". What a horse manure excuse. The team plays better under Lehner because Lehner has been there to save the teams bacon time after time time. He's been the one shelled NOT Andeson. Anderson has had a few good games....that's it. Lehner has not had a bad one yet though maybe the Oiler game wasn't all that terrific he still only gave up 2 goals which normally is enough to win a hockey game.

And your wrong hoss, financial stuff does have something to do with what is going on. I'd bet a significant amount of scratch had Lehner already signed his bridge contract by now, considering how the two of them are playing, Lehner would be getting more playing time going forward. Heck he may get more time anyways but it would be more of a guarantee.

Take your head out of the sand bro. Lehner has been MUCH MUCH better than Andy this year and cut the excuses that the team wants to play better for the backup rather than the starter. Face facts, the backup is blowing away the starter...
*sigh* the team played a more desperate brand of hockey with Lehner in nets. There were a good 3 games so far this season just like last night where the team completely disappeared in front of Anderson. They haven't done that once this year with Lehner.

And the number of shots means horse ****. It's the quality of shots, the amount of times the defenders take away rebounds, etc, that matter. The team has played like a bunch of zombies in front of Andy and basically hung him out to dry. Both of our guys have let in softies this year, not just Andy.

But, you know what, put Lehner in against Boston. When we get our ***** handed to us you'll see. Go and ruin the kid. We haven't had an elite goaltender on this team in over 20 years, why develop one now?

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11-13-2013, 10:14 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
But, you know what, put Lehner in against Boston. When we get our ***** handed to us you'll see. Go and ruin the kid. We haven't had an elite goaltender on this team in over 20 years, why develop one now?
When's the last time Lehner wasn't put in against Boston?

Last season, Robin was put in against Boston 5 times in 12 total starts. Anderson did not suit up against them.

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11-13-2013, 10:32 AM
  #61
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There are a couple of hard truths to be faced here. One is that we need points desperately, so we can't afford to let someone play their way out of a slump.

Another hard truth is that Anderson is struggling right now. Two wrap around goals last night? Seriously? This is the NHL, not Jr. C. He may find his game again, but until he does we need to run with Lehner for a while. Not starting Lehner last night was a huge mistake. Make no mistake, the team in front of Anderson was dreadful last night, but failing to start the NHL's First Star of the Week is a classic example of a coach who outsmarted himself...

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11-13-2013, 10:51 AM
  #62
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I think you'll see a win and you play type thing from this team from now on. So I guess in that case Lehner gets the start on Friday.

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11-13-2013, 11:15 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
When's the last time Lehner wasn't put in against Boston?

Last season, Robin was put in against Boston 5 times in 12 total starts. Anderson did not suit up against them.
Exactly Nyquil, if there is any team in the NHL that Lehner clearly has alot of experience with, it is the Bruins. I think Nac Mac forgot that fact and he probably also forgot how well Lehner has played versus Boston. I did a little research.

In 7 games versus Boston, Lehner has a somewhat mediocre 2-3-2 record but here's the real kicker: In those 7 games he could sue for non support as his GAA is 2.14 with a Save % of a ridiculous .944. In 5 of the games vs Boston, he has faced over 35 SOG and in 3 of them over 40. Needless to say he's been stellar vs them just as he pretty much has been versus everyone this year. In comparison in case you were wondering your boy Anderson has a 3-8 record vs Boston in 11 games in his career with a 3.45 GAA and a .899 Save %.

I think it's safe to say Nac Mac that it should be Lehner vs B's and in fact it very likely woul be a mistake for Lehner NOT to be in the net vs Bruins considering the career #'s of the two of them and the current play of the two as well.

I think it's time for you and some of the other Anderson backers and apologists in here to take off the "2012 rose colored glasses" you still have of Andy and that this is going to be 2012 all over again. I got news for you.....that was a dream year where all the planets aligned the heights of which will never to be approached by him ever again.

And what's truly the whole irony here and what is kind of funny is that here it is if you read the boards, you can see alot of folks are frustrated with the defense corps and that the goaltending from Andy just isn't up to snuff and that you wish it could be 2012 all over again with him. Well open up your eyes folks, though it may not be THE Craig Anderson who is performing like it's 2012. it's time to see and realize this year's version of the 2012 Craig Anderson just so happens to be the friggen backup....Robin *** Lehner....imagine that!. He gives the Sens a better chance to win hockey games not Anderson. Sooner mngt begins to realize this and says "screw it" with trying to keep the upper hand in upcoming negotiations with his bridge contract, sooner it will be your hockey team will win hockey games more consistently.


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11-13-2013, 11:16 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
I think it's time for you and some of the other Anderson backers and apologists in here to take off the "2012 rose colored glasses" you still have of Andy and that this is going to be 2012 all over again. I got news for you.....that was a dream year where all the planets aligned the heights of which will never to be approached by him ever again. And what's ironic is that though its time you fully realize and accept that fact, it's also time to see and realize this year's version of the 2012 Craig Anderson just so happens to be the friggen backup...go friggen figure. Time for y'all to realize and accept that.
Small sample size.

If you think that 12 games is enough evidence to conclusively prove that one guy should be the starter for the rest of the season, that's pretty poor reasoning.

Nothing wrong with putting in the hot hand. Lehner probably should have played against Philadelphia. He may not have won, but he was the hot hand.

But there is something wrong with throwing a guy under the bus after 12 games. Especially considering the state of the team he is playing behind.

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11-13-2013, 11:24 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Larionov View Post
There are a couple of hard truths to be faced here. One is that we need points desperately, so we can't afford to let someone play their way out of a slump.

Another hard truth is that Anderson is struggling right now. Two wrap around goals last night? Seriously? This is the NHL, not Jr. C. He may find his game again, but until he does we need to run with Lehner for a while. Not starting Lehner last night was a huge mistake. Make no mistake, the team in front of Anderson was dreadful last night, but failing to start the NHL's First Star of the Week is a classic example of a coach who outsmarted himself...
1) Are you suggesting that Anderson was being allowed to "play out of a slump" by getting the start last night?

2) Did you see the first wrap-around goal? If you think Anderson was lost there, watch Corvo.

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11-13-2013, 11:28 AM
  #66
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I dont hate Andy, i hate the fact we took the Hot goalie out of the net, why cant people understand that?

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11-13-2013, 12:17 PM
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I think we need to remind ourselves that last night was as much a political decision as it was a hockey one. Lehner is an RFA next year, giving Lehner the reigns would allow for a huge raise to Lehner and would also deflate Andersons value. If we were a rich team, that wouldn't matter, but we're not. These decisions matter.

I personally would have started Lehner but I understand wanting to start Andy instead.

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11-13-2013, 12:25 PM
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I think we need to remind ourselves that last night was as much a political decision as it was a hockey one. Lehner is an RFA next year, giving Lehner the reigns would allow for a huge raise to Lehner and would also deflate Andersons value. If we were a rich team, that wouldn't matter, but we're not. These decisions matter.

I personally would have started Lehner but I understand wanting to start Andy instead.
Saving Money > Winning

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11-13-2013, 12:29 PM
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Lehner has played better. Made bigger saves. Saved more of his shots, and let in a significant amount less terrible goals in.

I understand that Anderson needs his games, but not when Lehner's standing on his head. There is absolutely no chance they give Lehner a start if Anderson has a 3 game win streak where he even puts up an average 910 sv%. When Lehner is the NHL first star of the week... You should not take him out of the next game for a goalie coming off injury that you want to see if he's ready. That's what practise is for. Anderson may be the starter, but he's running out of games IMO.

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11-13-2013, 12:32 PM
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1) Are you suggesting that Anderson was being allowed to "play out of a slump" by getting the start last night?

2) Did you see the first wrap-around goal? If you think Anderson was lost there, watch Corvo.
1. He may not have been suggesting it but yes that is what happened. You have a goalie playing better than anyone, and a goalie who's been INCREDIBLY average so far this year coming back from injury. We were playing the least offensive team in the league. The latter got the start. That is what happened.

2. Who cares what Corvo was doing, Anderson got lazy and didn't cover his net and then didn't have the speed to cover his own mistake. Lehner makes that save. Sorry.

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11-13-2013, 12:56 PM
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This is so wrong, I agree with Maximus here. And, the wrong decision was made yesterday by starting Andy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
You have no idea what you're talking about. Andy had virtually no support so far this season and has faced a mountain of shots already. He has won us games and sent us into OT this year.

The team has been playing better in front of Lehner because they know he is the #2 and have been giving him more support. If they played like that for Andy we'd have a few more wins under our belt this year.

Financial issues have nothing to do with our netminders. Talk about a strawman argument.

Give Lehner the #1 now and, at best, youhave a Carey Price.
Work with him and ease him into the #1 spot in a year or two, and you potentially have the next Lundqvist.

Sorry for your fantasy team, but I want to develop the guy into a Lundqvist for us for the next 10 years, not win some ****** hockey pool right now.

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Old
11-13-2013, 01:01 PM
  #72
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Let's merge both goalies into one.

Landerson!

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11-13-2013, 01:03 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlssonnSchultz View Post
1. He may not have been suggesting it but yes that is what happened. You have a goalie playing better than anyone, and a goalie who's been INCREDIBLY average so far this year coming back from injury. We were playing the least offensive team in the league. The latter got the start. That is what happened.

2. Who cares what Corvo was doing, Anderson got lazy and didn't cover his net and then didn't have the speed to cover his own mistake. Lehner makes that save. Sorry.
Whoosh.

Watch the first goal again.

Shot from the right side of Andy, hits a stanchion and kicks back where it came from, bounces off the net, off Read's shin pad and lands next to the right-side post.

And you say Lehner makes that save.



Last edited by SenzZen: 11-13-2013 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Image added
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11-13-2013, 01:57 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Whoosh.

Watch the first goal again.

Shot from the right side of Andy, hits a stanchion and kicks back where it came from, bounces off the net, off Read's shin pad and lands next to the right-side post.

And you say Lehner makes that save.

I don't feel like it's really fair to blame anyone on that goal. It was a bad, unlucky bounce. The players were over there because, 99.9% of the time that puck goes rimming around the boards rather than kicking out and then right onto Read's stick.

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Old
11-13-2013, 02:17 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topshelfie View Post
Let's merge both goalies into one.

Landerson!
Maybe Lehnerson ? Cause just an L is not a big merge

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