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Lehner or Anderson?

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Old
11-13-2013, 02:22 PM
  #76
SenzZen
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I don't feel like it's really fair to blame anyone on that goal. It was a bad, unlucky bounce. The players were over there because, 99.9% of the time that puck goes rimming around the boards rather than kicking out and then right onto Read's stick.
I wasn't trying to blame anyone there, btw. I only mentioned Corvo initially because I remembered him looking the other way when I saw it last night, but when I looked for a replay you can see 2 others looking the wrong way.

tl;dr- freak bounce.

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11-13-2013, 02:56 PM
  #77
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Honestly, you go with the goalie that is winning.

The goalies are NOT the problem and either goalie is a good choice to go with. However, if the team plays better in front of one goalie over the other -- you go with him.

At this point, I'd definitely go with Lehner for the next game and test it out. If the team plays much better with Lehner in net -- then you go with him. If they play equally horrific with Lehner in net (and the team loses), I'd stick with Andy as he is the starter.

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11-13-2013, 03:09 PM
  #78
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Oh please. Lehner hasn't been any better than Anderson this year. I know a lot of you are anxious to "release the Lehner," but let's be honest. The chances of winning are equal no matter who is in net, and we do have to remember that Lehner is not a finished product.

If you guys want to toss him into the nets versus the toughest opponents while our team is playing like garbage and ruin his mojo, well, then be prepared for a bad turn in his development. We can't afford to think only about tomorrow.

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11-13-2013, 03:12 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
If you guys want to toss him into the nets versus the toughest opponents while our team is playing like garbage and ruin his mojo, well, then be prepared for a bad turn in his development. We can't afford to think only about tomorrow.
Did you miss the part about Lehner playing 5 times against the Bruins last year?

I assume that he's still stunned from PTSD.

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11-13-2013, 03:23 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Oh please. Lehner hasn't been any better than Anderson this year. I know a lot of you are anxious to "release the Lehner," but let's be honest. The chances of winning are equal no matter who is in net, and we do have to remember that Lehner is not a finished product.

If you guys want to toss him into the nets versus the toughest opponents while our team is playing like garbage and ruin his mojo, well, then be prepared for a bad turn in his development. We can't afford to think only about tomorrow.
Last time i checked, lehner has both the better save percentage and the better gaa than anderson. You absolutely do not know squat about whether or not the chances of winning are equal with lehner or anderson.

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11-13-2013, 03:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by NyQuil View Post
Did you miss the part about Lehner playing 5 times against the Bruins last year?

I assume that he's still stunned from PTSD.
And some of those games Anderson was injured and the entire team was in desperation mode. Different scenario.

It's funny. We talk about not bringing up rookies and prospects into the current environment on the team because we don't want them exposed to this atmosphere...but then let's go ahead and throw our potential franchise goalie into the deep end of the pool and let him fend for himself?

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11-13-2013, 03:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
It's funny. We talk about not bringing up rookies and prospects into the current environment on the team because we don't want them exposed to this atmosphere...but then let's go ahead and throw our potential franchise goalie into the deep end of the pool and let him fend for himself?
I think trading Anderson sends that message.

Playing Lehner when he's playing well doesn't.

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11-13-2013, 03:35 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Oh please. Lehner hasn't been any better than Anderson this year. I know a lot of you are anxious to "release the Lehner," but let's be honest. The chances of winning are equal no matter who is in net, and we do have to remember that Lehner is not a finished product.

If you guys want to toss him into the nets versus the toughest opponents while our team is playing like garbage and ruin his mojo, well, then be prepared for a bad turn in his development. We can't afford to think only about tomorrow.
Nac Mac...dude what are you talking about? Lehner has performed magnificently against tough opponents during his short career.

If you happened to read above, I did a little research for you and noted how fantastic his #'s are versus the Bruins in his career. We are talking low 2's GAA and almost a .950 Save %.

Versus the Habs, in 3 games Lehner has a 1.8 GAA and over a .950 Save %. In games vs Philly, Jersey, San Jose, my Rangers he has Save %'s over .940. I think we can agree that is pretty good competition? Heck vs the defending Stanley Cup champs, the Black Hawks he has .950 save % and only gave up 2 goals in 39 shots and almost beat them. Sure it's not a huge sample size but in 33 games, 5 of which he came in to relieve, he has a 2.4 GAA and a .930 Save %. These are terrific #'s for a 22 year old goalie. Anderson can't even sniff at #'s like these.

Dude, you've got a gem here in Lehner. The time for coddling is over bro. Lehner has proven he can take on top competition and excel. You need to win hockey games if you want to have a shot at making the playoffs which means you need to let Lehner play more. Anderson does NOT have the mojo this year...he just doesn't. It's pretty dang simple bud, Lehner should at worst split time going forward.

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11-13-2013, 04:02 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
Nac Mac...dude what are you talking about? Lehner has performed magnificently against tough opponents during his short career.

If you happened to read above, I did a little research for you and noted how fantastic his #'s are versus the Bruins in his career. We are talking low 2's GAA and almost a .950 Save %.

Versus the Habs, in 3 games Lehner has a 1.8 GAA and over a .950 Save %. In games vs Philly, Jersey, San Jose, my Rangers he has Save %'s over .940. I think we can agree that is pretty good competition? Heck vs the defending Stanley Cup champs, the Black Hawks he has .950 save % and only gave up 2 goals in 39 shots and almost beat them. Sure it's not a huge sample size but in 33 games, 5 of which he came in to relieve, he has a 2.4 GAA and a .930 Save %. These are terrific #'s for a 22 year old goalie. Anderson can't even sniff at #'s like these.

Dude, you've got a gem here in Lehner. The time for coddling is over bro. Lehner has proven he can take on top competition and excel. You need to win hockey games if you want to have a shot at making the playoffs which means you need to let Lehner play more. Anderson does NOT have the mojo this year...he just doesn't. It's pretty dang simple bud, Lehner should at worst split time going forward.
You HAVE to get the rest of the team better - and more consistent - first. You simply can not put a young netminder, I don't care if he's the next Roy/Brodeur/whoever, behind a team that's playing so horribly in our own zone and expect a good developmental curve.

You're setting up Lehner for failure if you do this. Andy is older and proven, and he won't be here in 2-3 years, so we can put Andy behind the worst team defense in the league and not worry too much. You do that with Lehner and you're taking a big risk with his future.

Can't you see I'm trying to help Lehner? That I want him to have the best career possible? Haven't you seen what happens to young goalies who are behind a horrible team (defensively) for a long period of time? It ruins them.

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Old
11-13-2013, 05:37 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SenzZen View Post
Whoosh.

Watch the first goal again.

Shot from the right side of Andy, hits a stanchion and kicks back where it came from, bounces off the net, off Read's shin pad and lands next to the right-side post.

And you say Lehner makes that save.

This specific goal is in no way a factor in the decision, nor is it all Anderson's fault.

But he starts to turn his whole body towards the net for no reason, sees the puck and isn't able to spin around fast enough. I think that Lehner probably would have backed in to his net as any goalie should, and that he would have been quick enough to get the puck upon seeing it. Clearly this can't be proved though so this conversation is pointless .

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Old
11-13-2013, 06:54 PM
  #86
Hale The Villain
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The bottom line is this:

Anderson has given the opposition a 2-0 goal lead in seven of the eleven games he has started

In the four games he did not give up a 2-0 lead early, two of them he gave up the first goal.

With Anderson in net there is a 64% chance we go down 2-0 early, an 82% chance we give up the first goal, and most importantly - a 64% chance we lose the game.

Anderson currently is ranked 35th in GAA (bottom 5 league wide) and 31st in SV% (bottom 10 league wide).

I don't know how a team is supposed to consistently win games with their supposed #1 playing like one of the worst goalies in the NHL.

Lehner should be starter until he stops playing so damn well. At the end of the season I don't want to be looking from outside of the playoffs wondering why we constantly started a worse goalie in the name of loyalty and gave away valuable points.

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11-13-2013, 06:55 PM
  #87
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Does anyone else not care who starts? There's so much other stuff you could talk about with this team, it's interesting that the most heated discussion is which of our two good goalies we play.

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11-13-2013, 06:57 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
The bottom line is this:

Anderson has given the opposition a 2-0 goal lead in seven of the eleven games he has started

In the four games he did not give up a 2-0 lead early, two of them he gave up the first goal.

With Anderson in net there is a 64% chance we go down 2-0 early, an 82% chance we give up the first goal, and most importantly - a 64% chance we lose the game.

Anderson currently is ranked 35th in GAA (bottom 5 league wide) and 31st in SV% (bottom 10 league wide).

I don't know how a team is supposed to consistently win games with their supposed #1 playing like one of the worst goalies in the NHL.

Lehner should be starter until he stops playing so damn well. At the end of the season I don't want to be looking from outside of the playoffs wondering why we constantly started a worse goalie in the name of loyalty and gave away valuable points.
And if lehner is given the reigns and the team in front of us continues to be the same are you going to make excuses for him, or will you just use the stats like you are with Anderson? Because I can't imagine any goalie sustaining lehners numbers in front of our team right now as the starter.

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11-13-2013, 06:57 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Does anyone else not care who starts? There's so much other stuff you could talk about with this team, it's interesting that the most heated discussion is which of our two good goalies we play.
Yeah, it is a bit bizarre.

It's pretty hard to imagine a different outcome for that stinker against Philly with Lehner between the pipes.

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11-13-2013, 07:11 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
And if lehner is given the reigns and the team in front of us continues to be the same are you going to make excuses for him, or will you just use the stats like you are with Anderson? Because I can't imagine any goalie sustaining lehners numbers in front of our team right now as the starter.
If Lehner goes from among the best goalies in the NHL statistically to the among the worst, I'll believe that it is entirely the team's fault for our goalies struggles, but right now there one goaltender that is clearly better than the other. This goaltender is giving the team a chance to win even when they play poorly, and is not costing the team games by giving the opposition a head start on a consistent basis.

This goaltender is not Craig Anderson.

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11-13-2013, 07:19 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Does anyone else not care who starts? There's so much other stuff you could talk about with this team, it's interesting that the most heated discussion is which of our two good goalies we play.
One of our goalies is top 5 in the league statistically
The other is is bottom 5 in the league statistically

Guess which one is our starter?

It's a worthy debate to have, especially considering the effect a goaltender can have on a game (arguably most important position in sports).

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11-13-2013, 07:20 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Does anyone else not care who starts? There's so much other stuff you could talk about with this team, it's interesting that the most heated discussion is which of our two good goalies we play.
Bingo.

Of all the concerns I have about our current team, goaltending is probably just above "paint color in the exercise room", and just below "amount of fabric softener the equipment manager uses when washing the practice jerseys" on my list.

We have a sieve-like defence, half of out forwards look like they are still on summer vacation... and yet the heated debate is on the only position in which we have any stability whatsoever: the goalies? Blows my mind.

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11-13-2013, 07:22 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Hale The Villain View Post
If Lehner goes from among the best goalies in the NHL statistically to the among the worst, I'll believe that it is entirely the team's fault for our goalies struggles, but right now there one goaltender that is clearly better than the other. This goaltender is giving the team a chance to win even when they play poorly, and is not costing the team games by giving the opposition a head start on a consistent basis.

This goaltender is not Craig Anderson.
One of them has had starts against the weakest teams we've faced almost exclusively, and one of them doesn't.

Just saying. I bet Anderson's numbers would look a lot better if you took away a few of his games against the Ducks, Sharks and Hawks and made them against New York, Florida and Columbus instead.

Anyway I'm with the others. I don't care who starts the goaltending is not our issue right now.

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11-13-2013, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Bingo.

Of all the concerns I have about our current team, goaltending is probably just above "paint color in the exercise room", and just below "amount of fabric softener the equipment manager uses when washing the practice jerseys" on my list.

We have a sieve-like defence, half of out forwards look like they are still on summer vacation... and yet the heated debate is on the only position in which we have any stability whatsoever: the goalies? Blows my mind.
I am sorry, but we currently do not have stable goaltenders.


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11-13-2013, 07:32 PM
  #95
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I am sorry, but we currently do not have stable goaltenders.
That's your opinion, not mine.

Hasek in his prime would still have lost that Flyers game. Team in front of him completely disappeared.

When Karlsson & Methot aren't on the ice, our blueline might be the worst in the league. And the goalies should somehow take the fall for that?

People are ignoring the obvious, glaring, significant holes on this team and projecting all of the team's issues onto the goalies. Anderson on a team with even a halfway-competent blueline is a top-10 goalie in this league, easy.

If you want to think that starting Lehner is going to somehow convince our defencemen to play NHL-caliber hockey overnight, and our slacking forwards to all of a sudden wake up, though, by all means, don't let me stop you.

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11-13-2013, 07:33 PM
  #96
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That's your opinion, not mine.

Hasek in his prime would still have lost that Flyers game. Team in front of him completely disappeared.

When Karlsson & Methot aren't on the ice, our blueline might be the worst in the league. And the goalies should somehow take the fall for that?

People are ignoring the obvious, glaring, significant holes on this team and projecting all of the team's issues onto the goalies. Anderson on a team with even a halfway-competent blueline is a top-10 goalie in this league, easy.

If you want to think that starting Lehner is going to somehow convince our defencemen to play NHL-caliber hockey overnight, and our slacking forwards to all of a sudden wake up, though, by all means, don't let me stop you.
Starting lehner might help. Maybe playing a backup makes a team play better in front of him being that they know that a backup is not as good as the starter, so they have to try harder to prevent being scored on.


Last edited by Senators65: 11-13-2013 at 07:40 PM.
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11-13-2013, 07:40 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SensBruins4Ever View Post
Starting lehner might help. Maybe playing a backup makes a team play better in front of him being that they know that a backup is not as good as the starter, so they have to try harder to prevent being scored on.
im pretty sure the team knows Lehners better then andy

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11-13-2013, 07:42 PM
  #98
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It is funny, but going in to this season I felt that we were a top 4 D short of having one of the best defenses in the league. What seemed true on paper did not materialize when the puck was dropped.

If 1/2 of our forwards manage to show up on a given night we have managed to squeak out wins, but too often only 1/3 or less come to play on the same night.

Our goaltending is very good, and is not the problem. Either goalie gives us a decent chance to win on a given night. May as well start blaming Slewedge for not inspiring the boys enough with his rendition of the national anthem.

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11-13-2013, 07:45 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
One of them has had starts against the weakest teams we've faced almost exclusively, and one of them doesn't.

Just saying. I bet Anderson's numbers would look a lot better if you took away a few of his games against the Ducks, Sharks and Hawks and made them against New York, Florida and Columbus instead.

Anyway I'm with the others. I don't care who starts the goaltending is not our issue right now.
Exactly. Too many people seem to rely on stats and numbers instead of looking deeper and understanding where they come from and just how (un)important they are in a given situation.

You can fire 100 shots from the boards and the goalie can walk out with a perfect save percentage. You can fire 5 shots from the lower circle when the guy is completely alone with the goalie sliding from one post to another and all 5 shots can go in. The guy facing 5 hard shots had a harder job than the guy standing still and looking big for 100 crappy shots. But, the stats will say something completely different.

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11-13-2013, 08:17 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
One of them has had starts against the weakest teams we've faced almost exclusively, and one of them doesn't.

Just saying. I bet Anderson's numbers would look a lot better if you took away a few of his games against the Ducks, Sharks and Hawks and made them against New York, Florida and Columbus instead.

Anyway I'm with the others. I don't care who starts the goaltending is not our issue right now.
If you're arguing Lehner doesn't deserve the numbers he has, I would seriously advise you to reconsider before getting into such an argument.

A 5-10 minute highlight reel of Lehner can be made in the games he has played thus far of him making saves he has no business making.

Our team D sucks, there's no question about it. The reason Lehner is winning games is not because he's playing weaker teams, but instead because he is making these difficult stops, whereas Anderson is letting in any remotely difficult shot.

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