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Old
12-20-2006, 01:39 PM
  #26
derbyfan
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
What was the league thinking about allowing this latest thing with the Dogs and the Majors. Absolutely senseless. There is a proper order of events that the league should have followed.

Burlington? If it didn't fly in Hamilton twice, what good will it be trying in Burlington?

The greater Toronto area is a black hole for Jr hockey. can't figure out why it is not embraced more in places like Brampton, Mississauga, Toronto, Hamilton, etc. It is a good product. Maybe it is not being sold well? Who knows. But it hasn't worked. A second team in Ottawa? Please.

NY state seems an obvious choice to put a team. Or how about Toledo? Grand Rapids? Flint? (these would be a good fit in a division with Windsor, Saginaw, Plymouth, Sarnia)? I don't see a Canadian market that jumps out right now.

This Icedogs - Majors thing has been an absolute fiasco, and I don't think Mississauga residents will support ANY team that plays at the Hershey Centre from now on.
I used to cover the Dogs, and even with crappy teams fans came out the first few years. People can say what they will about the city, but Mississauga fans got the shaft by repeatedly having a sub-par product, plus a revolving door coach/GM/ ownership situation. This team has absolutely no identity.
And now Melnyk thinks fans will come out to support a Toronto-based team?
Mark my words, this is going to be an absolute disaster.

As for Burlington, I cannot understand the reasoning behind this. Oshawa is the only city in the GTA that supports its OHL team. St. Mike's, Brampton and Missy are done for.
Hamilton had junior hockey before and it didn't fly, and I don't see Burlington being any different than other T.O. suburbs.
They've gotta get out of the GTA. What about North Bay? Michigan? New York State? Anything would be better.

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12-20-2006, 04:56 PM
  #27
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I would love to see North Bay get a team again. And yes, they have come out in droves to support lower-level hockey. There's no doubt they would support an OHL club. I just don't know if there's the money to bring the club to town...
Is one reason they moved in the first place an outdated arena? Would the city be willing to pony up for a new palace for an OHL club?

I believe there have been offers from a NB group. Do they necessarly have to have a new arena yet? They can fit 3000+. They can initiate a plan that would have a new arena built in x amount of years. It would not have to be right away considering they can seat people and have the facilities. Sudbury is one of the oldest rinks in the league. No box seats old bathrooms yet we have not built a new arena. I think we can fit a little more than NB but our facilities are not up to par with the other OHL rinks.

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12-20-2006, 05:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Alison View Post
The NorthBay Sky Hawks are pulling in 3000+ a game. I think there fan base would support an OHL franchise. They lost it once I bet they would not again,.

Cut that 3000 in half and you would be much closer to accurate. Still impressive for the NOJHL though.

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12-21-2006, 07:43 AM
  #29
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Cut that 3000 in half and you would be much closer to accurate. Still impressive for the NOJHL though.

Your right I checked the stats and they average about half of that. But they do pull in over 2000 some nights. NOw imagine if this was a OHL team.

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12-21-2006, 08:21 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by derbyfan View Post

As for Burlington, I cannot understand the reasoning behind this. Oshawa is the only city in the GTA that supports its OHL team. St. Mike's, Brampton and Missy are done for.
Hamilton had junior hockey before and it didn't fly, and I don't see Burlington being any different than other T.O. suburbs.
I think that it could go either way. It might work out awesome, or it might be a disaster.

The thing to remember with Burlington, is that you've got a lot of neighbouring areas which are huge hockey towns. Oakville being it's immediate neighbour with a population of around 150,000, and Milton to the north with a population of around 60,000. Together, thats a workable fan base of over 350,000.

Also you have to remember how rich, or high off the residents of Oakville and many parts of Burlington are. Their is a ton of money flowing through the Halton area. But also, that unlike Mississauga or Hamilton, their really isn't a lot to do in Oakville or Burlington. As a resident of Oakville (which mise well be Burlington to), we as residents usually have to go to Toronto or Hamilton, say if we want to see a professional sports team (Jays, Argos, Ti-cats, Leafs, Bulldogs, etc).

But on the other hand, I do agree that the track record of GTA suburbs really isn't great, so that has to be a concern.

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12-21-2006, 08:29 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
I think that it could go either way. It might work out awesome, or it might be a disaster.

The thing to remember with Burlington, is that you've got a lot of neighbouring areas which are huge hockey towns. Oakville being it's immediate neighbour with a population of around 150,000, and Milton to the north with a population of around 60,000. Together, thats a workable fan base of over 350,000.

Also you have to remember how rich, or high off the residents of Oakville and many parts of Burlington are. Their is a ton of money flowing through the Halton area. But also, that unlike Mississauga or Hamilton, their really isn't a lot to do in Oakville or Burlington. As a resident of Oakville (which mise well be Burlington to), we as residents usually have to go to Toronto or Hamilton, say if we want to see a professional sports team (Jays, Argos, Ti-cats, Leafs, Bulldogs, etc).

But on the other hand, I do agree that the track record of GTA suburbs really isn't great, so that has to be a concern.
Thing is, those cities surround Mississauga as well. Milton, Oakville, Georgetown etc. Yet the Dogs don't seem to draw much of a crowd from disinterested residents.
I currently live in Oakville, and was raised in Missy, and I can tell you there's just as much to do in both towns.
Unless you've got a car in Mississauga, you ain't going nowhere. Even then, it's only the malls to go to.

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12-21-2006, 08:54 AM
  #32
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I thought Melnyk owned the Ice Dogs.

Has that changed in the past week and I didn't know about it?
He has sold the dogs to a group he had no plans on keeping the ice dogs.As with the majors they will play 2 home games this year in ottawa one has already been played.The 67s have no issue with a team playing out of the sbc.

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12-21-2006, 09:55 AM
  #33
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Thing is, those cities surround Mississauga as well. Milton, Oakville, Georgetown etc. Yet the Dogs don't seem to draw much of a crowd from disinterested residents.
I currently live in Oakville, and was raised in Missy, and I can tell you there's just as much to do in both towns.
Unless you've got a car in Mississauga, you ain't going nowhere. Even then, it's only the malls to go to.
While that is true, the Hershey centre is quite the drive for people in Oakville because it's deep in the heart of Sauga, not just in Clarkson or something. I've been there quite a few times and even without traffic it's nearly a half hour drive. People mise well go see the Bulldogs, because Copps Coliseum in Hamilton isn't THAT much further. I can tell you that's the main reason I don't support the Ice Dogs, because it's to far. I'm an OHL fanatic and I'll go to one Ice Dog game a year, because it's just not worth the commute.

Burlington is a lot closer in proximity, with most parts of Burlington accessible by car within 10 minutes, the edge of Burlington (like Brant st.) 15 minutes.

Same goes for Milton, as Burlington would be MUCH closer. The Halton region acts as a pretty knit unit and it would be much easier for people in that area to see a team out of Burlington, than it would be to drive to the Hershey Center.

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12-21-2006, 10:32 AM
  #34
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Can't we close this ridiculous thread already. There is absolutely no truth to the rumour that the Ice Dogs are moving to Burlington, or that the Majors will play out of Ottawa next year. As of now, the OHL and the three or four real contenders are quite a bit apart, and chances are that no deal will be made by the 31st. The OHL is pretty set on moving the Ice Dogs to Western New York, and will hold out until there's a thorough bid from that area.

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12-21-2006, 10:48 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Alison View Post
Your right I checked the stats and they average about half of that. But they do pull in over 2000 some nights. NOw imagine if this was a OHL team.
Yes, I can imagine if this were an OHL team as they had one less than 4 years ago. I didn't work then and I don't see why anything would change? I know there are some passionate fans from NB that would love to see the Centennials back in town, but sadly I don't see enough.

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12-21-2006, 11:02 AM
  #36
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Can't we close this ridiculous thread already. There is absolutely no truth to the rumour that the Ice Dogs are moving to Burlington, or that the Majors will play out of Ottawa next year. As of now, the OHL and the three or four real contenders are quite a bit apart, and chances are that no deal will be made by the 31st. The OHL is pretty set on moving the Ice Dogs to Western New York, and will hold out until there's a thorough bid from that area.
Damn good point. I just realized that no link has been provided to any news source. Even on the NOOF it is being called a rumour.
I normally don't respond to crap like this, but got burned up at the suggestion of another GTA junior team. Until some confirmation by a news source is provided, let's stop responding to this stuff about Burlington and Ottawa.

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12-21-2006, 11:04 AM
  #37
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I'm trying to follow this thing here, and I'm confused.

Why would a team move to Ottawa? We've got two successful junior hockey franchises here right now. There isn't room for a third. I'm assuming the Melnyk connection is the reason behind this idea, and that the thought is, they'd play in the Scotia Bank Place, but, that's not going to work for junior hockey. The remote location does not work well with the fan base for junior hockey. The 67's have played the occassional game out of the SBC I believe, with dismal success.

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12-21-2006, 11:14 AM
  #38
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One must also consider that it doesn't make economical sense for a team that at home draws 1,000 fans a game to move to a 19,000 seat arena outside of its market, where there already 2 successful junior teams and an NHL team that has had it's own problems getting bums into the seats at the same arena. Although Melnyk is hard pressed to earn money in St.Mikes arena, there is no way he'll earn any paying increased operating costs, increased travel costs, increased game day staff and concession costs, etc. Besides, when he bought the Majors he did so to keep the team in the GTA, and promised the OHL that he'd find them an appropriate arena in the Toronto area, which he has done by acquiring the rights to the Hershey centre. If there is no deal in place to move the Ice Dogs by Dec 31st, which according to my team sources is very much the case at the moment, the Majors will either stay for another season at St.Mikes, or share the Hershey centre with the Ice Dogs next season.

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12-21-2006, 11:48 AM
  #39
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One must also consider that it doesn't make economical sense for a team that at home draws 1,000 fans a game to move to a 19,000 seat arena outside of its market, where there already 2 successful junior teams and an NHL team that has had it's own problems getting bums into the seats at the same arena. Although Melnyk is hard pressed to earn money in St.Mikes arena, there is no way he'll earn any paying increased operating costs, increased travel costs, increased game day staff and concession costs, etc. Besides, when he bought the Majors he did so to keep the team in the GTA, and promised the OHL that he'd find them an appropriate arena in the Toronto area, which he has done by acquiring the rights to the Hershey centre. If there is no deal in place to move the Ice Dogs by Dec 31st, which according to my team sources is very much the case at the moment, the Majors will either stay for another season at St.Mikes, or share the Hershey centre with the Ice Dogs next season.
First two ohl teams can not share the same arena.Second there would be no costs for st mikes to play out sbc for a year.

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12-21-2006, 12:08 PM
  #40
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First two ohl teams can not share the same arena.Second there would be no costs for st mikes to play out sbc for a year.
Please point me to the rule where two teams cannot play out of the same arena? Why would such a rule be in place if the scenario has not come up until now? What would be the purpose of such a rule? It wouldn't hurt the OHL in any way.

Second, how can there be no costs for St. Mikes to play out of SBC for a year? Everything has a cost, especially huge NHL size arenas, where it cost $25,000 just to open the building with house lights for a half day. If you're alluding to the fact that Melnyk owns the Senators and they'd be picking up the tab, it would still cost him money, although I don't see how or why he'd swallow the expenses under one moniker and not the other. Either way, there would be a significant cost. much more than staying in Toronto another year.

Considering you've provided no proof to anything you've stated, and are pulling explanations out of nowhere, It's quite obvious you've been either mislead by someone trying to fool you, or you're a ***** who's come here to spread more baseless rumours.

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12-21-2006, 12:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by reidjr View Post
First two ohl teams can not share the same arena.Second there would be no costs for st mikes to play out sbc for a year.
Please provide a link to the accredited source you are getting your info from. Otherwise, from now on title your posts as "Rumour-Santa Claus spotted over Northern Ontario" and the like. If it is rumour, post it as such.

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12-21-2006, 12:57 PM
  #42
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Please provide a link to the accredited source you are getting your info from. Otherwise, from now on title your posts as "Rumour-Santa Claus spotted over Northern Ontario" and the like. If it is rumour, post it as such.
Like i said before i can not say much as of yet.I am involved at the jr a level and had a chat with a couple of the owners.This is not a rumor repeat not a rumor.If i went and posted all the details i could be sued.

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12-21-2006, 01:16 PM
  #43
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How will the league differentiate between the Ottawa 67's and the Ottawa St. Michael's Majors then? Perhaps the Kanata St. Michael's Majors?

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12-21-2006, 03:48 PM
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How will the league differentiate between the Ottawa 67's and the Ottawa St. Michael's Majors then? Perhaps the Kanata St. Michael's Majors?
Two teams can play in the city just not the same building.

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12-21-2006, 10:55 PM
  #45
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What difference does it make

Nothing I have heard about what is going to happen with St Mikes or the Ice Dogs makes any sense at all.

The only rumour that makes any sense is for a team to be located in NY state. But that means the Dogs leaving Mississauga and St Mikes moving in. That is just plain goofy. St Mikes to Ottawa is just as nutty.

The league should pass a rule. No team can come in and displace another team in the same year or in consecutive years. That would at least force the issues to be resolved before this kind of mess results.

I think the league is a bit too eager to make Melnyk happy.

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12-22-2006, 06:01 AM
  #46
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Some facts about the st mikes and the sbc.

1)They would have no costs at all to play out of the sbc.

2)Last week at the sbc st mikes at there largest crowd of the years 5,000.

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12-22-2006, 08:49 AM
  #47
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A lot of people might be forgetting about the ironclad lease that Hurricane Hazel negotiated with the OHL at the Hershey Centre. Nick Ricci's group bought the IceDogs with the idea of moving them to Niagara Region but sold once they realized how punitive the lease was should they break it.

There is absolutely no way that the OHL will not be in Mississauga for the duration of the 20-year-lease, and you can take that to the bank.

That said, Burlington would be a good idea in my opinion as it can draw from both Hamilton and the Oakville area.

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12-22-2006, 10:34 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by reidjr View Post
Some facts about the st mikes and the sbc.

1)They would have no costs at all to play out of the sbc.

2)Last week at the sbc st mikes at there largest crowd of the years 5,000.
You still haven't explained how St. Mikes would have no cost to play out of the SBC. It costs $17,000 - $25,000 just to open a rink that size with minimum staff for half a day, so where would that money come from for 30+ games a season? Those costs don't disappear simply because Melnyk owns the building. They are fixed operating costs.

Last weeks game at the SBC was just like the other games they've played there over the last year or two. It's made up of mostly Ottawa fans who want to see their guys play in an NHL rink, plus a bus load or two of fans making the trip from Toronto. That and the trip in February are unique occasions, hence drawing 4,500 fans (announced, actual was 3587) in the lower bowl. By no means would that be the case every game if the team were to move there.


Last edited by v-man: 12-22-2006 at 10:42 AM.
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12-22-2006, 10:50 AM
  #49
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A lot of people might be forgetting about the ironclad lease that Hurricane Hazel negotiated with the OHL at the Hershey Centre. Nick Ricci's group bought the IceDogs with the idea of moving them to Niagara Region but sold once they realized how punitive the lease was should they break it.

There is absolutely no way that the OHL will not be in Mississauga for the duration of the 20-year-lease, and you can take that to the bank.

That said, Burlington would be a good idea in my opinion as it can draw from both Hamilton and the Oakville area.
Exactly. Hazel was at the press conference when they announced the Majors would be moving there and she was thrilled. Melynk has made a commitment to the OHL to keep them in the Toronto area (which was the only reason he bought the team in the first place when they we're going bankrupt in the early stages), and to Hazel to honour the lease on the Hershey Centre. There is no way that this Burington rumour has any grounds.

That said, I too would like to see a team end up in Burlington. I'd much rather make the longer trip out there than go to Brampton, and I'm sure the Milton/Oakville/Burlington/Hamilton populations would have no trouble supporting a franchise.

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