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Long Island - Montreal Proposal.

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Old
01-19-2004, 07:31 PM
  #26
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb6947
I also agree they will not move him in season but I had no idea we made the distintion of in season trade and out of season trades. I will keep that in mind for the future to avoid confussion.
Surely, we can disagree about Peca's play, and allocation of resource$. I think his offense is a ghost of it's former self, though, objectively, one must concede that his linemates continue to produce and he has been getting a lot more chances of late. (Earlier on this season, he wasn't even getting opportunities.) That said, the rest of his game has been strong in the last 4-6 weeks.

I only commented on in-season vs. post-season moves because I see little advantage to moving him now, unless of course a superb return is offered. That is, I would not view this player in a "salary dump" mode, contrary to what some fans of other teams would love to believe.


Last edited by Trottier: 01-19-2004 at 08:18 PM.
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01-19-2004, 07:55 PM
  #27
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I think this teams defensive woe are more a result of not playing well in front of our own net and cranky goaltending. Offensively we have no one wit enough speed or grit to carry the puck into the offensive zone and make plays happen in our top six. The only guy that does is Blake and you clearly see how effective that aspect of his game has on what ever line he plays on. That being said with Yash being a puck possesion guy it is very important that we have a guy to carry the puck into the zone on your top line. Until we bring in those type of players(both having to play with an edge) to this team we will be hard pressed to get out of the first round. That being said we only we have limited assests to obtain those players, but we do have young ready to play now players that can make up for a intangibles you would loose by moving a player that can get you what we need. Just my oppinion. But if Carolina deals players and lavi and the boys come sniffingaround for Peca offering O'niell I'd drive him down there myself and pay the rent on his apartment here on LI for the rest of the season so he won't have to worry about funds with the impending lockout.

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01-19-2004, 07:56 PM
  #28
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The other player I was speaking of is a tough Dman . sorryif I confused.

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01-19-2004, 08:11 PM
  #29
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Besides chances mean nothing if you do nothing with them and his chances are a result of the hard work of the players around him not his play. This gut is supposed to be an impact player but like Milbury I constntly find myself asking "Where's captain crunch?" and "What would this guy do if Stirling didn't put Hunter and the quicknessof Bates (another guy we could give away) on his line?" I'm not the only one, we talk about this at length in my section @every home game. I want him to be good and help this team but the reality is we have two third line centers (I don't even want to get into the size differece between the two and what that implies) on this team and we pay one like a superstar and it holds us back from getting what we need to do what we need to do to survive in this market, contend for a cup.

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01-19-2004, 08:25 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hb6947
But if Carolina deals players and lavi and the boys come sniffingaround for Peca offering O'niell I'd drive him down there myself and pay the rent on his apartment here on LI for the rest of the season so he won't have to worry about funds with the impending lockout.


You're going beyond the call of duty. Just drive him to LaGuardia!

We know Lavy is a fan of Peca, but not sure if the 'Canes would want to add $$$ to their payroll however.

***

I'd rather go with a smaller offer: Czerkawski for Boughner. Two free agents-to-be. Canes add offense; Isles add grit to the backline. Short-term, quick fixes.

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01-19-2004, 08:29 PM
  #31
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with regards to the original post: first, the isles wouldn't have interest in markov, prospects, and/or picks for peca. second, even if it weren't peca, why would the isles want another d-man that is just like their top four in terms of style?

the isles would love souray because he brings a physical element to their backline. his offensive output this year is simply gravy. of course, it doesn't matter if the isles would love souray or not because the habs already have him and they love him too. therefore, he ain't goin' anywhere.

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01-19-2004, 09:05 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kryoptix
no way !!
i wouldn't do markov straight up for peca !!!
peca is overpaid like much of our player + we aren't that good defensively and im not already buy out with bouillon ... while hainsey is a good player but he seems too lazy .. or stupid .. you choose !!
and zednik on his game ! he's the best habs player(see playoff 2002) and 1 game this year when he got high sticked and he started crushing everybody on ice and made like 8 shots on goal in 1 period... too bad he didn't score

btw i dont want peca ..if we need a Right handed center will probably look for #4 center nothing more ... Gainey won't give up on our young player or any player ..especially when he's on a sub-par season(markov)
so NO !!!
-what does "im not already buy out with bouillon ... " mean?

-"while hainsey is a good player but he seems too lazy .. or stupid .. you choose !!"
is that an opinion because I find it "stupid".

-"zednik on his game ! he's the best habs player"
you haven't watched enough games this season.

-"and 1 game this year when he got high sticked and he started crushing everybody on ice and made like 8 shots on goal in 1 period... " What game was that? Who was it against?

-"we need a Right handed center will probably look for #4 center nothing more ... "
Begin is the 4th line center. Juneau (38) is the center we must replace. He is the 3rd center.

Conclusion: You should erase your post because it makes you look like a bonehead.

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01-19-2004, 09:11 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
-"and 1 game this year when he got high sticked and he started crushing everybody on ice and made like 8 shots on goal in 1 period... " What game was that? Who was it against?
I believe it was in early January. And believe me, Zednik was incredible. He slammed everyone, forechecked harder than Begin, and was all over the ice. He was the best player on the ice that game, and I'm pretty sure it was against Buffalo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
"we need a Right handed center will probably look for #4 center nothing more ... "
Begin is the 4th line center. Juneau (38) is the center we must replace. He is the 3rd center.
Actually, Begin was becoming the third line centre before he went down. He was doing everything Juneau did and more. Right now, Joe Juneau is the third line centreman in Montreal, but Begin will return and play the same game before he went down, thus leading to a promotion for him and a demotion for #90.

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01-19-2004, 09:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
Long Island gets the PP QB they have been looking for, a prospect with 2nd line potential and a pick. Montreal gets the gritty, right handed center they have been looking for.

Markov, Plekanec and a 2nd round pick

FOR

Peca
There is no way this should get any consideration.

Who would replace Markov on LD? Hainsey isn't ready and Beauchemin is a 5th or 6th d-man at best.

Plekanec is having a great year in the AHL, plays with grit and intensity and doesn't have a big salary. About the only thing he doesn't do is shoot right handed. I think this guy has a future with the Habs and I certainly wouldn't throw in Markov and a 2nd round pick just to get a high priced center who shoots from the other side.

The 2nd round pick? Hmmm.... Montreal is looking to build through the draft and have built a nice base of prospects already. I don't think they are about to abandon that strategy.

Besides Gainey said he might consider picking up someone from a non-contender as a fill-in for the balance of the year. Now if you consider the Isles a non-contender, then Montreal might be willing to take a big salary off their hands but they wouldn't get much in return.

Something like Mark Parrish for Karl Dykhuis and Yanic Perreault would be much more palatable.

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Old
01-19-2004, 09:28 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Rubble

Something like Mark Parrish for Karl Dykhuis and Yanic Perreault would be much more palatable.

not from an isle fan's perspective

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Old
01-19-2004, 09:29 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Rubble
There is no way this should get any consideration.

Who would replace Markov on LD? Hainsey isn't ready and Beauchemin is a 5th or 6th d-man at best.

Plekanec is having a great year in the AHL, plays with grit and intensity and doesn't have a big salary. About the only thing he doesn't do is shoot right handed. I think this guy has a future with the Habs and I certainly wouldn't throw in Markov and a 2nd round pick just to get a high priced center who shoots from the other side.

The 2nd round pick? Hmmm.... Montreal is looking to build through the draft and have built a nice base of prospects already. I don't think they are about to abandon that strategy.

Besides Gainey said he might consider picking up someone from a non-contender as a fill-in for the balance of the year. Now if you consider the Isles a non-contender, then Montreal might be willing to take a big salary off their hands but they wouldn't get much in return.

Something like Mark Parrish for Karl Dykhuis and Yanic Perreault would be much more palatable.
Ok let me get this straight. The original trade proposal (Peca for Markov, Plekanec and a 2nd) should not get "any consideration". But your "Parrish for Dykhuis and Perreault" proposal is supposed to make sense and is " more palatable"?!!

OH BOY! Dykhuis and Perreault BOTH walk as UFAs at the end of the year. So the Isles would trading a mid-aged sniper for ... nothing.

Add to that the fact that Perreault and Dykuis' annual salaries add up to (2.8 + 1.5 =) 4.3 million dollars. Parrish makes about a third of that.

Add to that the fact that Dykhuis cleared waivers when the season begun and could be had for future considerations right now. Perreault could be had right now for a 2nd round draft pick right now. Maybe even less than a 2nd rounder. Montreal will keep him around though as insurance in case Koivu or Ribeiro get hurt.

I any event, that proposal blows!

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01-19-2004, 09:32 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Rubble
Besides Gainey said he might consider picking up someone from a non-contender as a fill-in for the balance of the year. Now if you consider the Isles a non-contender, then Montreal might be willing to take a big salary off their hands but they wouldn't get much in return.

.

even with the injuries the isles look like they will be hanging around close to the 8th spot.

and the recent article from the FL press about the isles backing off trading Parrish($2.3m), for a much cheaper Panther,is a good indicator that the isles aren't trading key players for crappy returns.

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Old
01-19-2004, 09:46 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Rubble

Something like Mark Parrish for Karl Dykhuis and Yanic Perreault would be much more palatable.

Two players the Isles wouldn't take on waivers - let alone give you Parrish for.

Not very realistic.

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Old
01-19-2004, 09:46 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Rubble
Something like Mark Parrish for Karl Dykhuis and Yanic Perreault would be much more palatable.
counter proposal: zednik for ronning and timander.

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Old
01-20-2004, 07:34 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Markov is not a first tier player.
Markov is no less then a number 3 d-man on any team in the NHL right now and he is only going to get better. That makes him a first tier player in my mind, his salary is decent and plays solid defence and is great on PP. I bet he has more tarde value around the league then Peca does. Peca is overated and overpaid!

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Old
01-20-2004, 08:31 AM
  #41
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this thread, like many, has degenerated into odd valuations and offers. i guess we're all into the perverse satisfaction derived from devaluing some other fan's players by offering crap for them.

that said, the ORIGINAL PROPOSAL was not unfair in terms of value , but i don't see the isles needing markov (though he certainly is a desirable defenseman) and i agree with some posters that Peca is not likely to go anywhere for the duration of the season- PROVIDED that the Isles stay in contention. should the isles fall out of contention, however, i would give Peca a 50-50 shot at making it through the trade deadline as our captain.


I agree also that there's no way the Canadiens do a deal like this for Peca given his lack of offense and the overall solid play of the Habs in general. Maybe if the Isles fall out of contention, he'd be a good pickup for them for a solid player and a first rounder, but at the present, they need him less than we do.

Plus, I hate trading captains. Sure you do it if you're forced to (Linden was a good example, McCabe a bad example) but in general, it sets a team back. I know there are many who disagree with me, but I think Peca is the man for the job on the Isles. Let's see how he finishes the season. The last month or so he's looked like the Peca I always wanted from Buffalo. If his scoring comes back, and I think to a degree it will, we're in good shape.

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Old
01-20-2004, 01:02 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats NAslund
Markov is no less then a number 3 d-man on any team in the NHL right now and he is only going to get better. That makes him a first tier player in my mind, his salary is decent and plays solid defence and is great on PP. I bet he has more tarde value around the league then Peca does. Peca is overated and overpaid!

Markov would be the #5 dman on the Islanders. And, if a number 3 dman is your definition of "top tier", there are a heck of a lot of top tier players in the league.

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Old
01-21-2004, 04:24 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by espion
Long Island gets the PP QB they have been looking for, a prospect with 2nd line potential and a pick. Montreal gets the gritty, right handed center they have been looking for.

Markov, Plekanec and a 2nd round pick

FOR

Peca

guy are you serious first Souray for Gagne now this bud come on

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