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Fault: Trotz or Poile

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Old
11-13-2013, 03:46 PM
  #1
Jarnberg
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Fault: Trotz or Poile

This team isn't getting it done again. Last year the excuse was the lockout. We don't have that excuse this year.

Is this Poile or Trotz's fault?

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11-13-2013, 03:48 PM
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11-13-2013, 03:53 PM
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deanwormer
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I don't see Trotz or Poile on the ice; I see about 23 skaters and a couple goalies. Of those up front, Legwand and Nystrom and Spaling and Clune and Smith are doing their job, Fisher has been hurt; in the back Rinne is hurt, Josi has been hurt, and Jones and Ekholm and Bartley are doing their jobs. So, pick any other name - they are the ones at fault.

It's not like these guys are incapable and it's not like this coaching staff hasn't shown the ability to ice a prepared team that uses it's strengths. These guys get paid to play a kids game - effort or lack of it is on them, not a coach or some guy in the office.

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11-13-2013, 04:09 PM
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Jarnberg
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So if it's the players, is it Trotz not getting the best out of them or is it bad players put on the team by Poile?

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11-13-2013, 04:31 PM
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thecloser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
So if it's the players, is it Trotz not getting the best out of them or is it bad players put on the team by Poile?
We definitely don't have enough talent. We have too much grit. I feel it's fault on both sides. Our players we rely on aren't getting it done and the front office didn't address offensive needs. It seems like Stalberg is getting into a rhythm but he's still only at 2pts. And Nystrom has been nice but otherwise the lack of moves to try to acquire an offensive threat is on the front office.

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11-13-2013, 04:32 PM
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NoNecksCurse
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injuries are at fault

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11-13-2013, 04:35 PM
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101st_fan
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It's never the guy on the ice who is at fault ... no matter what they do. HF rule #0

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11-13-2013, 04:39 PM
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NoNecksCurse
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It's never the guy on the ice who is at fault ... no matter what they do. HF rule #0
i blame weber almost as much as trotz. that rule doesn't apply to me. i think the players are as much as fault as anyone. the more i think about it, the more im in favor of poile hitting the road and trotz staying. we have always been middle of road in terms of talent imo.. that comes with our budget (past budget)

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11-13-2013, 04:50 PM
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Injuries, sminjuries... Preds have been lacking Top 3/6 talent for 4-5 years or longer. Keep hearing we are going to add a Top 6 or two but it never happens. Yes yes we did 2 seasons ago at the deadline and where are those pieces now? I for one would like to see a "New Predator Way"! I do like most of the guys on the team but they are not going to win a SC. May have to give up a few to get what is best for the team. Ask who wants out/traded and move'em. Bring up our youngsters or trade for some better players. I know I Make it sound simple and it isn't but that is why they get the big bucks.

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11-13-2013, 06:21 PM
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Injuries sure aren't stopping teams like the Ducks.

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11-13-2013, 06:46 PM
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11-13-2013, 06:46 PM
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It can be the players fault. But someone traded for, drafted or signed them. Someone is in place to coach them to bring out their best. If they aren't getting it done then they either aren't good enough or don't fit in the system. That's either coaching and or management.

Do we have the best pieces we can? Are those pieces being used to their full potential?

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11-13-2013, 07:08 PM
  #13
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I came in expecting to finish ~10th this season. It's a young team; I don't think it's anyone's fault. These top 6 comments are ridiculous; do you think Poile doesn't want a Parise / Vanek / etc.? Getting players to sign for a middle of the pack southern franchise that works cap-wise is not easy.

I feel like I'm alone here, but I think we would miss Poile/Trotz big time if they were let go.

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11-13-2013, 07:33 PM
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I'm not sure if you can rightly say it is definitely one or the other. They work very close together and are both the architects of this team.

My off-season theory that the team is still in rebuild mode is starting to hold true unfortunately...

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11-14-2013, 12:44 AM
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Every stakeholder involved is to blame really (ownership, management, coaches and players). The extent of the blame is difficult to nail.

A change may be needed soon, and ditching the players is much more strenuous than just firing the coach. If Trotz is fired we can see how the players react on the ice under new guidance. Firing a coach is usually a risky proposition this early in the season but the payoff can be well worth it.

First step would be to fire Trotz, if that doesn't change how the team performs after a month, start a fire-sale. Still time to turn things around though, the team definitely needs to find some offense though until Rinne returns.

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11-14-2013, 07:24 AM
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If I had to pick one i'd say Poile. Poile has always been highly defensive mind and hasn't been willing to throw money at forwards. instead He give Gaustad a 3.3 mil contract to win faceoffs for the next 3 years. 2.5 mil for Nystrom ( Hes has been surprising and if he keeps it up hes worth the money) 1.8 mil to Hendrick's who isn't a strong skater and only kills penalty) when hes on the ice the other team scores. Trotz I feel hasn't been as much of a problem. Now yes Trotz didn't play Stalberg to his strength in the first part of the year, but in all seriousness Trotz hasn't had a chance to coach a offensive powerhouse sents Kariya. Personally Poile needs to go.

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11-14-2013, 08:40 AM
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I blame Trotz to an extent. How much? I'm not sure, but I can't help but wonder how much offensive potential we have that isn't utilized because of his staunch two-way beliefs. Maybe our "offensive struggles" are more a product of coaching stubbornness than lack of talent. I mean, it's entirely possible that we just suck, but you have to wonder if these offensive issues might mysteriously not be as evident in a different system.

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11-14-2013, 09:50 AM
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Maybe it's a coach who is not putting the guys he has in the best positions to excel.

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11-14-2013, 12:25 PM
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The genisis of our current state of affairs was the fiasco of the Weber/Suter negotiations. For that, Poile, and Poile alone, is to blame.

Getting that right was the most important thing Poile has had to do in 15 years and he could not have hardly screwed it up more if he tried. Suter walks for nothing, Weber signs an offersheet to skip town, never to return, and we get another 1 and done in the playoffs, followed by 2 seasons of utter crap on the ice.

If Trotz were fired he wouldn't have time to pack his things up before another team hired him. That said, he could stand to change up some things.

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11-14-2013, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecloser View Post
We definitely don't have enough talent. We have too much grit. I feel it's fault on both sides. Our players we rely on aren't getting it done and the front office didn't address offensive needs. It seems like Stalberg is getting into a rhythm but he's still only at 2pts. And Nystrom has been nice but otherwise the lack of moves to try to acquire an offensive threat is on the front office.
And by grit, that certainly doesn't mean toughness or willingness to stand up for themselves....besides Clune

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Old
11-14-2013, 12:52 PM
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Poile.

One could argue that Trotz might be able to get a little more out of our players, but you are talking about A LITTLE. This roster offensively is worst in the league on paper, and not anywhere near a contender. I am neutral on head coach at this point. Playoffs are a distant hope, regardless of coach. Actually being a contender is a fairytale.

2-3 years ago we were on the cusp of being elite, and Poile has been the engineer of this wreck. Here's a just a few of his move/non-moves that has reversed the ship to lottery pick territory: 1) Handling of Weber arbitration (domino effect affecting many of the next...), 2) Being naive on Suter. 3) Failure to address scoring the past 5 years, as Weber and Suter were standing by to see improvement. 4) 1st rd pick for Guastad 5) Giving him 13 million. 6) Hal Gil-- giving up the assets and big contract we ultimately had to buy out 7) Giving away Franson. 8) Letting Radulov play him for a fool again. 9) Weber contract negations part 2. 10) Idiot draft picks like Ellis and Pickard. 11) Spending 30 million+ on over-the-hill 3rd liners signed to long term contracts in a totally act of desperation. 12) Being bumped up against the salary cap max with ZERO first liners.

At this point, head coach (and goaltender) doesn't matter. We have the most expensive group of 3rd-4th liners in the history of the NHL. We can eek out some wins with them, but aren't anywhere close to a contender.

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11-14-2013, 01:48 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNecksCurse View Post
injuries are at fault
1 player is injured ... this team couldn't score on anyone at the moment ... broke franchise record in being shutout futility and not to mention the teams we were shutout by (Devils & Jets) ... we just aren't a playoff team this year... particularly if you believe Elliotte Friedmann in believing that there'll be 8 100 point teams in the West.

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Old
11-14-2013, 02:03 PM
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I'd go with both, but if a change needs to be made i'd get rid of Trotz.

I'm a big believer that coaches have a shelf life, in any sport. There's only so many times you can preach your message before players start tuning you out and you lose the locker room.

Sometimes, bringing in new ideas and new blood really can work.

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Old
12-05-2013, 08:32 AM
  #24
Jarnberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Poile.

One could argue that Trotz might be able to get a little more out of our players, but you are talking about A LITTLE. This roster offensively is worst in the league on paper, and not anywhere near a contender. I am neutral on head coach at this point. Playoffs are a distant hope, regardless of coach. Actually being a contender is a fairytale.

2-3 years ago we were on the cusp of being elite, and Poile has been the engineer of this wreck. Here's a just a few of his move/non-moves that has reversed the ship to lottery pick territory: 1) Handling of Weber arbitration (domino effect affecting many of the next...), 2) Being naive on Suter. 3) Failure to address scoring the past 5 years, as Weber and Suter were standing by to see improvement. 4) 1st rd pick for Guastad 5) Giving him 13 million. 6) Hal Gil-- giving up the assets and big contract we ultimately had to buy out 7) Giving away Franson. 8) Letting Radulov play him for a fool again. 9) Weber contract negations part 2. 10) Idiot draft picks like Ellis and Pickard. 11) Spending 30 million+ on over-the-hill 3rd liners signed to long term contracts in a totally act of desperation. 12) Being bumped up against the salary cap max with ZERO first liners.

At this point, head coach (and goaltender) doesn't matter. We have the most expensive group of 3rd-4th liners in the history of the NHL. We can eek out some wins with them, but aren't anywhere close to a contender.
I think this is spot on. Poile has lost the plot the last few years.

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Old
12-05-2013, 08:44 AM
  #25
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honestly if you want the true root of the problem, its Craig Leipold.

the skinflint budgets for years, the missed opportunity to lock up Hartnell long term, the firesale, followed by uncertainty followed by shoestring budgets for the first few years with the new owners(which is what forced the Weber arbitration fiasco), all have conspired to not give Poile a lot to work with

Im ready to give Poile some very bad marks for this past summer's acquisitons, but on balance he's done pretty well since the 04-05 lockout given what he had to maneuver around.

How different a team would we be right now with Hartnell and if Radulov hadnt ended up a headcase?

And Trotz is a good coach, and as said he would be rehired before he could get home from the Bridge if he is fired.. but the question does remain if he is the right coach for this team anymore...

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