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Subban behind Boyle and Letang for Team Canada

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Old
11-14-2013, 02:58 PM
  #576
Smokey Thompson
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I heard a Dregger quote earlier on Melnyk...

"Well, Subban has improved a little bit, and if he keeps improving he may get a shot, but for now he's on the outside"

The words in italic were heavily emphasized with his typical troll voice. There's no way someone from the executive team told him that Subban's game has been improving. What, he plays over 25 minutes a couple games and all of a sudden he's a better player?

He must be getting such a laugh out of this, ****ing tool.

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11-14-2013, 03:06 PM
  #577
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Team Canada would be a lot cooler with some habs on it.

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11-14-2013, 03:08 PM
  #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
I heard a Dregger quote earlier on Melnyk...

"Well, Subban has improved a little bit, and if he keeps improving he may get a shot, but for now he's on the outside"

The words in italic were heavily emphasized with his typical troll voice. There's no way someone from the executive team told him that Subban's game has been improving. What, he plays over 25 minutes a couple games and all of a sudden he's a better player?

He must be getting such a laugh out of this, ****ing tool.
The way they've discussed PK has been weird.
PK was amazing other than for a few stretch of games where Therrien lost it. He was amazing to start the year, but even then, they were saying he was behind Boyle which made very little sence at the time because his head had just been rammed into the boards and he had a concussion.
I will still be surprised if they decide not to pick PK. It just wouldn't make much sense.

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11-16-2013, 10:12 PM
  #579
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Marc Antoine Godin ‏@MAGodin 15 Nov

Michel Therrien: "There is no doubt in my mind that Carey is going to be on the Olympic team."

Couldn't say the same about PK could you Michel?

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11-17-2013, 02:38 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by SB164 View Post
Marc Antoine Godin ‏@MAGodin 15 Nov

Michel Therrien: "There is no doubt in my mind that Carey is going to be on the Olympic team."

Couldn't say the same about PK could you Michel?
Right now, I probably wouldn't take Subban. He makes dumb mistakes. Sure, it's part of the risk/reward. But I wouldn't want that in a short best on best tournament. You don't have time to coach that type of stuff out of a player in that situation. It's fine on a club team, over an 82 game season, but I would be nervous putting him out there in the Olympics.

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11-17-2013, 02:41 PM
  #581
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
Right now, I probably wouldn't take Subban. He makes dumb mistakes. Sure, it's part of the risk/reward. But I wouldn't want that in a short best on best tournament. You don't have time to coach that type of stuff out of a player in that situation. It's fine on a club team, over an 82 game season, but I would be nervous putting him out there in the Olympics.
He doesn't make anymore dumb mistakes than any other of the candidates for team canada. You're just drinking the kool-aid.

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11-17-2013, 02:41 PM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
Right now, I probably wouldn't take Subban. He makes dumb mistakes. Sure, it's part of the risk/reward. But I wouldn't want that in a short best on best tournament. You don't have time to coach that type of stuff out of a player in that situation. It's fine on a club team, over an 82 game season, but I would be nervous putting him out there in the Olympics.
For every mistake he makes he also produces 30 or so positive events. It would be a clear case of skewed bias to leave him off because he makes a mistake here and there. Every single player will make a mistake, it's all about if the good outweighs the bad, and in Subban's case it's quite obvious that he's a positive effect on all his teammates.

The proof is in the pudding:




Leaving an athlete off a roster for fear that he may make a mistake is just silly and short sighted in my opinion, especially when all the other d-men invited to Team Canada's camp make mistakes as well, but they probably don't produce as many positive events as Subban.

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11-17-2013, 02:53 PM
  #583
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
Right now, I probably wouldn't take Subban. He makes dumb mistakes. Sure, it's part of the risk/reward. But I wouldn't want that in a short best on best tournament. You don't have time to coach that type of stuff out of a player in that situation. It's fine on a club team, over an 82 game season, but I would be nervous putting him out there in the Olympics.
You're right doughty, weber, Keith, pietrangelo, never make mistakes. Silly me for thinking otherwise.

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11-17-2013, 03:05 PM
  #584
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At this point, the surprise would be if he's on it.

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11-17-2013, 03:38 PM
  #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
For every mistake he makes he also produces 30 or so positive events. It would be a clear case of skewed bias to leave him off because he makes a mistake here and there. Every single player will make a mistake, it's all about if the good outweighs the bad, and in Subban's case it's quite obvious that he's a positive effect on all his teammates.

The proof is in the pudding:




Leaving an athlete off a roster for fear that he may make a mistake is just silly and short sighted in my opinion, especially when all the other d-men invited to Team Canada's camp make mistakes as well, but they probably don't produce as many positive events as Subban.
You arent making your case here.

I dont look at Corsi stats. In fact, I had to look up what CF% was.

Looking at your chart, that Desharnais player looks pretty damned great for the Habs.

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11-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #586
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
You arent making your case here.

I dont look at Corsi stats. In fact, I had to look up what CF% was.

Looking at your chart, that Desharnais player looks pretty damned great for the Habs.
That's the point he is making: Desharnais looks great when Subban is on the ice - just like every other Habs player. What that graph shows is the incredible impact Subban has on the entire Habs' roster.

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11-17-2013, 03:48 PM
  #587
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
That's the point he is making: Desharnais looks great when Subban is on the ice - just like every other Habs player. What that graph shows is the incredible impact Subban has on the entire Habs' roster.
According to the graph, Desharnais without Subban is better than Lars with Subban

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11-17-2013, 03:52 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
According to the graph, Desharnais without Subban is better than Lars with Subban
Same with Plekanec. What does that tell you?

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11-17-2013, 03:53 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
He doesn't make anymore dumb mistakes than any other of the candidates for team canada. You're just drinking the kool-aid.
Not sure about either assertion, but it's all just opinion anyway.

To the good Dr Gonzo (I still don't know how to multiquote), I agree that Subban is a chance generator. But I don't agree with the premise that you obviously take a guy who generates more chances for than against in club competition. It's a best on best tournament. How many of the chances that Subban generates for will occur against the best of another country? Fewer, I would wager. But, in reverse, how many of those unforced errors that he makes will be exploited by the best of another country? More, I would I reckon.

In case I have to say it, I'm a fan of Subban and love the fact that he plays for the Habs instead of any of the other 29 teams. And, if he does make the Olympic team, then giddy-up good for both him and us as a fan base. But as a pretend member of Team Canada's brain trust, right now I probably wouldn't take him.

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11-17-2013, 03:59 PM
  #590
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Same with Plekanec. What does that tell you?
I'm still trying to figure it out, hold on

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11-17-2013, 04:02 PM
  #591
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
According to the graph, Desharnais without Subban is better than Lars with Subban
That was my point.

With all of that said, I believe Subban deserves to be on the Canadian Olympic team.

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11-17-2013, 04:03 PM
  #592
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You're right doughty, weber, Keith, pietrangelo, never make mistakes. Silly me for thinking otherwise.
I said that?

You might be silly for thinking that, but that's part of another conversation, perhaps one you're having with yourself.

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11-17-2013, 04:08 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Souffle View Post
Not sure about either assertion, but it's all just opinion anyway.

To the good Dr Gonzo (I still don't know how to multiquote), I agree that Subban is a chance generator. But I don't agree with the premise that you obviously take a guy who generates more chances for than against in club competition. It's a best on best tournament. How many of the chances that Subban generates for will occur against the best of another country? Fewer, I would wager. But, in reverse, how many of those unforced errors that he makes will be exploited by the best of another country? More, I would I reckon.

In case I have to say it, I'm a fan of Subban and love the fact that he plays for the Habs instead of any of the other 29 teams. And, if he does make the Olympic team, then giddy-up good for both him and us as a fan base. But as a pretend member of Team Canada's brain trust, right now I probably wouldn't take him.
To multi-quote, click the 'multi' button once under each post you'd like to quote, then scroll down and hit reply at the bottom of the page. That's how I do it, anyway.

It seems you are adjusting subban's projected mistakes and chances and only accounting for the increase in competition, without adjusting for the increase in quality of linemates. It's break even at very best. And it's team canada, so the difference between his current linemates vs new linemates would be greater than the difference in competition. If anything, Subban would be more effective relative to his team on team canada than on the habs.

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11-17-2013, 04:11 PM
  #594
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Subban has been playing like crap lately, there is no way he deserves to be on team Canada right now..


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11-17-2013, 04:17 PM
  #595
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Subban has been playing like crap lately, there is no way he deserves to be a team Canada right now..
I disagree, just because the points aren't there doesn't mean he isn't generating chances and being stellar defensively. He hasn't been on the ice for a goal against in a while too, so I don't get where you are getting this from.

There seems to be a pattern here, when he's not putting up points he's playing like crap and when he's putting up points people overlook his defensive contributions. I am fine with the way Subban is playing right now, it's not as dynamic as he was during the start of the year but he's adapted to Therrien's demands...

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11-17-2013, 04:23 PM
  #596
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I disagree, just because the points aren't there doesn't mean he isn't generating chances and being stellar defensively. He hasn't been on the ice for a goal against in a while too, so I don't get where you are getting this from.

There seems to be a pattern here, when he's not putting up points he's playing like crap and when he's putting up points people overlook his defensive contributions. I am fine with the way Subban is playing right now, it's not as dynamic as he was during the start of the year but he's adapted to Therrien's demands...
Stellar defensively??? You are kidding right?? He makes stupid mistakes every games and is tentative with the puck, decision making hasnt been good at all lately.. Dont know if its a matter of confidence but he sure isnt playing very well lately..

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11-17-2013, 04:36 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Stellar defensively??? You are kidding right?? He makes stupid mistakes every games and is tentative with the puck, decision making hasnt been good at all lately.. Dont know if its a matter of confidence but he sure isnt playing very well lately..
What stupid mistakes are you talking about? I mean I might be a blind fanboy here so, please, give me some examples.

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11-17-2013, 04:47 PM
  #598
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I said that?

You might be silly for thinking that, but that's part of another conversation, perhaps one you're having with yourself.
No. but you did say you wouldn't take subban for making stupid mistakes, well that's ridiculous considering doughty and pietrangelo make just as many mistakes as subban. You also have to consider who you would take over subban, i understand why keith, doughty, pietrangelo and weber are all locks, but what makes vlasic, bouwmeester, letang better options? Because they're left handed? don't make me laugh these 3 defenseman are considerably worse than subban and yet people who have never liked subban and never will like subban continue to push their agenda.

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11-17-2013, 05:07 PM
  #599
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I'm still trying to figure it out, hold on
Are the zone starts and quality of comp. that Desharnais, Eller and Plekanec face all equal?

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11-17-2013, 05:11 PM
  #600
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You arent making your case here.

I dont look at Corsi stats. In fact, I had to look up what CF% was.
It's simple stuff.

It's pretty clear that he makes everyone around him better. The numbers just support the argument.

The risk assessment in this case is skewed because people will concentrate on one error, as opposed to his overall effect on the play.

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