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Diaz close to signing an x-term contract!

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Old
11-15-2013, 06:44 AM
  #76
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Or how about, how a player plays throughout the course of the season dictates how much he gets paid?

Is it that hard to understand?
and so far he's playing well enough for a 3M player...



so, what's your point ?

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11-15-2013, 06:51 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and so far he's playing well enough for a 3M player...



so, what's your point ?
Except he hasn't, Diaz needs to prove himself to earn himself long term contract over 3m. Playing 100 games is not nearly enough, especially considering he's been very inconsistent since signing with us.

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11-15-2013, 06:53 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Except he hasn't, Diaz needs to prove himself to earn himself long term contract over 3m. Playing 100 games is not nearly enough, especially considering he's been very inconsistent since signing with us.
The guy is a UFA to be. 3M per will be the 5th paid defenseman on the team and I find it alright. This year's UFA is weak so it's better to keep our own players and continue to draft well and develop our young prospects.

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11-15-2013, 06:53 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by rockjngo View Post
Niklas Hjalmarsson 6'3" 220lbs
Nick Leddy 6'0" 200lbs
Johnny Oduya 6'0" 200lbs
Michal Rozsival 6'2" 210bs
Brent Seabrook 6'3" 227lbs
Duncan Keith 6'1 200lbs

Our D
Bouillon 5'7" 190lbs
Diaz 5'11" 186lbs
Bouillon is 5'8" 197lbs
Diaz 5'11" 197lbs

The internet is your friend! But don't let it deter you from fudging the numbers.

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

Hjalmarsson is listed at 6'3" 207lbs
Seabrook 6'3" 221lbs
Oduya 6' 190lbs
Leddy at 5'11" 191lbs

The problem with the team in the recent slide is up front, not on defense or in nets. The defense and goaltending has been very good all year.

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11-15-2013, 06:54 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Except he hasn't, Diaz needs to prove himself to earn himself long term contract over 3m. Playing 100 games is not nearly enough, especially considering he's been very inconsistent since signing with us.
actually, outside his post concussion games last season he has.

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11-15-2013, 06:56 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
actually, outside his post concussion games last season he has.
And that's your opinion against mine

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11-15-2013, 06:56 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
Or how about, how a player plays throughout the course of the season dictates how much he gets paid?

Is it that hard to understand?
If you use the Gainey method of last minute negotiating then you either pay more or lose more players to UFA then have to go replace them...see Gionta Cammalleri Gomez Spacek Hamrlik etc

Teams that have sucess extend the players they like and want to keep before the cost rises. People complain about the Gorges contract, well it was at the 11th hour(though his injury was a factor) and he ended up about 500k more/year than it would have been 6 months earlier.

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11-15-2013, 07:00 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
and so far he's playing well enough for a 3M player...



so, what's your point ?
I think it's whether he can maintain it over 82 games. After all, he hasn't been playing ~20min/game more than 42 games and had a serious injury that may or may not be a long term issue. Same questions for Emelin.

I guess it's interesting Bergevin is willing to still take that approach to re-sign despite what happened with Desharnais. Perhaps he's strong enough on his philosophy that one error won't rattle him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Teams that have sucess extend the players they like and want to keep before the cost rises. People complain about the Gorges contract, well it was at the 11th hour(though his injury was a factor) and he ended up about 500k more/year than it would have been 6 months earlier.
Hopefully you have a link or something to back that claim up or else it looks like you made up stuff as proof to strengthen your argument especially considering Gorges was extended mid-season: http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=609302

He was playing 20-23 min/game, shutdown top pairing ES D minutes, top PK unit minutes on one of leagues best PKs, 'blocking machine' type name-reputation, etc for 4 straight seasons heading to UFA. I highly doubt this fellow would have approved much lower. Diaz is rumoured to get something close and he hasn't shown to be close to effective as Gorges at his best with a fraction of the experience.

If you want to speculate that perhaps the Habs offered him unreasonable term (especially considering shelf life of his player type) for a lower cap hit, then I can see the logic. Your claim that he'd have taken ~.5M discount had the Habs attempted to sign him earlier on the other hand, not sure it holds any basis.


Last edited by Watsatheo: 11-15-2013 at 07:22 AM.
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Old
11-15-2013, 07:04 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Off the top of my head, since Bergy got here, these are the Dmen that he has signed: Drewiske, Bouillon, Murray and Emelin.
Expensive? Not really
Mediocre? If Murray, Bouillon, Drewiske is your 6-7-8, as it should be, I think that's pretty good.
Soft? Heck no! He's clearly addressing the size and toughness issues as we go here.
Emelin was here before. Yes he just extended him, another precipitated moved imo.
But in terms of who he's brought in, I'm seriously not impressed. Bouillon is Therrien's lapdog. He could be pretty decent if he was sheltered and limited to 15ish minutes a game, but we're using him like he's some reliable guy, getting around 18-19 minutes versus quality opponents, heck we're even benching our Norris winner to give him quality crucial minutes at the end of games. It's laughable.
Can you imagine being the opposing coach and with under 2 minutes left while trailing a goal, you put your best guys out there and you see Bouillon jump on the ice? How freaking happy are you when you see this??? What a moron this Therrien. Just for regularly doing this, I can't support this coach. The reasoning he must have behind these decisions are just way too bad for me to trust him.

Anyways, Drewiske was a useless grab. There's so many Dmen like him in the AHL, he could have grabbed any. We threw away a pick for no apparent reason, and I'm not sure if Bergevin gave him a 2 year deal just to make himself feel better or because he didn't want to admit to being wrong, but that was pretty weird. Not that it hurts us but I just don't understand. He's injured for the year.

Murray clearly was picked up to address the size issue, if he plays around 10-12min then he can be okay meaning not make mistakes and dish out a few hits, but he's a pretty bad Dman overall. All he does is try to block shots or hit guys.


Not impressed by those pick ups, and any twit can pick up a big guy to put on the bottom pair. That's not what we need. We need to improve the top 4.
If Bergevin is hoping the kids will be ready to make the jump next year, well then they better be. Otherwise we'll have the same defense that's highly dependable of Price.

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Old
11-15-2013, 07:07 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If you use the Gainey method of last minute negotiating then you either pay more or lose more players to UFA then have to go replace them...see Gionta Cammalleri Gomez Spacek Hamrlik etc

Teams that have sucess extend the players they like and want to keep before the cost rises. People complain about the Gorges contract, well it was at the 11th hour(though his injury was a factor) and he ended up about 500k more/year than it would have been 6 months earlier.
Gorges signed his contract on January 1st 2012 they had plenty of time to negotiate with him. At the time gorges was playing well enough to earn 3.9, truth is gorges has slightly regressed since signing that contract, which is why people think he is slightly overpaid now.

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11-15-2013, 07:08 AM
  #86
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Gorges 4 more years at 3.9m.
Emelin 4 more years at 4.1m.
Potentially Diaz 3 more years at 3m.

Potentially Subban 7-8 years at 6.5m+

Then we have,
Beaulieu
Tinordi
Pateryn
Nygren

All pretty close to NHL.

If we sign Diaz I believe Markov is gone. Not saying Diaz is a replacement just that we would never get the young guys into the lineup.

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Old
11-15-2013, 07:13 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think it's whether he can maintain it over 82 games. After all, he hasn't been playing ~20min/game more than 42 games and had a serious injury that may or may not be a long term issue. Same questions for Emelin.

I guess it's interesting Bergevin is willing to still take that approach to re-sign despite what happened with Desharnais
. Perhaps he's strong enough on his philosophy that one error won't rattle him.
That's what scares me the most. It wasn't just DD, there was no need to extend Bouillon either. They're rushed signings.

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Old
11-15-2013, 07:26 AM
  #88
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You guys are ridiculous. 3m per year for 3 years is a good deal. Easily tradable when needed.

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11-15-2013, 07:31 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
You guys are ridiculous. 3m per year for 3 years is a good deal. Easily tradable when needed.
That's what many thought with DD as well.

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Old
11-15-2013, 07:37 AM
  #90
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You guys are ridiculous. 3m per year for 3 years is a good deal. Easily tradable when needed.
I love the people who hate 3 years because it is LONG TERM.. Really?? Honestly good stop gap. Dman always take longer to mature so tinoldi, beulieu will not be 100% for the big club next year. How much longer will Markov be here at his age?? 3 more years? Diaz brings good puck movement and again he is on the PK if I remember that is near the top. 3.5 for 3 is reasonable.

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11-15-2013, 07:38 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's what many thought with DD as well.
Yes....and it guarantees that our D will remain the same and the issues will not be addressed. Diaz is a decent player with some offensive skill, but do we really need him? We're about to have a high priced defense that's not even good. That gives me an instant headache.

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11-15-2013, 07:40 AM
  #92
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The closer a player is to UFE the higher his price.

Is it THAT hard to understand?
Emelin sure took a discount for signing early.

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11-15-2013, 07:41 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BRAD HABSFAN View Post
I love the people who hate 3 years because it is LONG TERM.. Really?? Honestly good stop gap. Dman always take longer to mature so tinoldi, beulieu will not be 100% for the big club next year. How much longer will Markov be here at his age?? 3 more years? Diaz brings good puck movement and again he is on the PK if I remember that is near the top. 3.5 for 3 is reasonable.
Diaz's offensive production is replaceable. I also believe his PKing is replaceable too. But hey, lets lock him up for 3-4 years!!!

He is soft and hears footsteps all the time....don't we have enough non-physical dmen? Are we trying to win a cup or just not let our players get away?

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11-15-2013, 07:42 AM
  #94
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Emelin sure took a discount for signing early.
Some people think he did.

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11-15-2013, 07:42 AM
  #95
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Diaz hasn't been around that long, right? 3 million could end up being a steal depending on how his development goes.

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11-15-2013, 07:43 AM
  #96
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the thing is the build-through-the-draft approach has to be augmented with positive player swapping. I don't see where taking mediocre players and committing even more resources and time to them helps the team get better. Especially when the timing of the signings is such that everyone is hitting free agency at nearly the same time, it causes the payroll to bulge and takes away the ability to make improvements in other areas. Now we have this high priced defensive corps with no ability to improve at forward. Nothing against Diaz but this is the time for a young player to step into his spot.

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11-15-2013, 07:47 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I think it's whether he can maintain it over 82 games. After all, he hasn't been playing ~20min/game more than 42 games and had a serious injury that may or may not be a long term issue. Same questions for Emelin.

I guess it's interesting Bergevin is willing to still take that approach to re-sign despite what happened with Desharnais. Perhaps he's strong enough on his philosophy that one error won't rattle him.



Hopefully you have a link or something to back that claim up or else it looks like you made up stuff as proof to strengthen your argument especially considering Gorges was extended mid-season: http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=609302

He was playing 20-23 min/game, shutdown top pairing ES D minutes, top PK unit minutes on one of leagues best PKs, 'blocking machine' type name-reputation, etc for 4 straight seasons heading to UFA. I highly doubt this fellow would have approved much lower. Diaz is rumoured to get something close and he hasn't shown to be close to effective as Gorges at his best with a fraction of the experience.

If you want to speculate that perhaps the Habs offered him unreasonable term (especially considering shelf life of his player type) for a lower cap hit, then I can see the logic. Your claim that he'd have taken ~.5M discount had the Habs attempted to sign him earlier on the other hand, not sure it holds any basis.
For some reason I thought Gorges last deal was done in June.

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11-15-2013, 07:48 AM
  #98
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Have we not learned with Gorges, Desharnais and Moen contracts? Or do we have to keep repeating the same stupid mistakes?

You don't sign ****** depth players beyond 2 seasons.. they are not part of the core, they do not get extended in season and they don't get long term deals. It's rather ****ing simple, actually.

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11-15-2013, 07:49 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadiensnation View Post
Gorges 4 more years at 3.9m.
Emelin 4 more years at 4.1m.
Potentially Diaz 3 more years at 3m.

Potentially Subban 7-8 years at 6.5m+

Then we have,
Beaulieu
Tinordi
Pateryn
Nygren

All pretty close to NHL.

If we sign Diaz I believe Markov is gone. Not saying Diaz is a replacement just that we would never get the young guys into the lineup.
IMO there's no way Subban gets less than Letang's 7.5M unless he's willing to take another discount. That's the easiest most recent comparable for Subban. Habs can try but considering they just got ridiculously low 2 bargain years from him so can't see it happening unless they really don't value him highly.

I don't mind Diaz at 3M. He's can fill in top 4 in case of injury and can hold his own against quality ES if needed. Considering the team's lack of RD and how injury prone the team is, having a #5D with these qualities is a good investment assuming he can keep it up/improve. Unlike Desharnais, there's some versatility/use to Diaz. You don't HAVE to play him a certain way and he can fill several roles (obviously some better than others).

I don't think signing him longterm will have any bearing on whether the Habs sign Markov or not as he plays a huge roll on the team in all situations. The only potential negatives I see form it is Diaz can get injured again/regress to the point of being another Desharnais contract.

It really depends on how Emelin plays coming back from injury. It's weird but he is essentially the glue that puts this D core together. He allows the bottom pair to have Diaz where he should theoretically do well on and split Subban/Markov into 2 solid pairings stabilizing the Habs 5 on 5 puck possession. No 3rd pairing where it's guaranteed the team will be hemmed in their own zone.

LD
2. Markov
3. Gorges (can play RD)
6. Tinordi/Beaulieu (one rookie)
7. UFA (Murray?)
8. Drewiske (can play RD)

RD
1. Subban
4. Emelin (natural LD)
5. Diaz

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11-15-2013, 07:49 AM
  #100
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I love the people who hate 3 years because it is LONG TERM.. Really?? Honestly good stop gap. Dman always take longer to mature so tinoldi, beulieu will not be 100% for the big club next year. How much longer will Markov be here at his age?? 3 more years? Diaz brings good puck movement and again he is on the PK if I remember that is near the top. 3.5 for 3 is reasonable.
You think Diaz is gonna be on this team for 2016-2017 season? If Diaz is our replacement for Markov, mark my words we will be an awful, awful team. People don't seem to realize how quickly teams change and locking yourself up with a mediocre player for 3 more years is a bad idea.

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