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Old
11-15-2013, 08:15 AM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
A little? Kane has twice more hits than Pacioretty in their career. Pacioretty is a perimeter player. A sniper in a big body. Kane is 20 lbs less than MaxPac but plays bigger and gritter. He is also a better player at even strength. Kane is also 3 years younger and a better goal scorer. He's a better fit for the Habs than MaxPac IMO.
*buzzer sound*


Nope. Wrong.

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11-15-2013, 08:18 AM
  #127
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Not sure why Pacioretty always gets a free pass here. I mean, he's got all the tools and he's a beast in the gym but he's just as frustrating to watch as Rene Bourque. He goes on a tear for 4-5 games and then completely disappears for 10-15 games. He might be a model off the ice but his work ethics on the ice are questionable.

It's funny how Kovalev was criticized for showing up every X games but Pacioretty can disappear for longer stretches but yet can't be considered in a major trade.

You'd have to be crazy (or not watching the Jets) to not do Kane - Pacioretty straight up. Kane is way more consistent and plays with an edge. Sort of like Simmonds but with more skills. He's only 22 and still has time to mature.

The NHL is so conservative that guys like Subban and Kane stand out for being flashy and extraverted. They would be embraced in the NBA but they're a "distraction" in the NHL.

I won't hold my breath though because our GM obviously thought we had a great team in the offseason and didn't do anything and now it looks like he will extend every soft player we have so we can be a solid bubble team for the next few years.

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Old
11-15-2013, 08:21 AM
  #128
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I would love to get Kane, and keep Pacioretty.

Our biggest, glaring weakness, is on the wing. Having Kane as our #1 LW AND Patches on the 2nd line would be soooooooooo much better.

I have no idea what to offer really, but I'd imagine combo's of 1st rd picks, top end prospects would be floated around.

Maybe Pleks, 1st, Beaulieu?

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11-15-2013, 08:21 AM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
A little? Kane has twice more hits than Pacioretty in their career. Pacioretty is a perimeter player. A sniper in a big body. Kane is 20 lbs less than MaxPac but plays bigger and gritter. He is also a better player at even strength. Kane is also 3 years younger and a better goal scorer. He's a better fit for the Habs than MaxPac IMO.
Latendresse also had a gazillion hits in his career, and he's still no more a PF than Pacioretty is. Kane fits more the mold of a traditional one but it's not a night and day difference as you make it seem. At even strength they are equal, while Pacioretty is deadly on the powerplay. You sound like Sens fans when bringing up the Norris trophy. The age argument, again, marginal at best. He's two years younger not three by the way, what a huge deal. Same for goal scoring.


So in conclusion, Kane is slightly better than Patches. That's great. It's still a redundant trade (but it probably won't as we'd have to give up an other asset making us losers) unless you think Pacioretty will be forever injury prone.

What I'd like is for us to get Kane AND keep Patches. But you know what, this rumor is bogus as hell, Kane's not even available I bet.


Last edited by poetryinmotion: 11-15-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old
11-15-2013, 08:29 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Not sure why Pacioretty always gets a free pass here. I mean, he's got all the tools and he's a beast in the gym but he's just as frustrating to watch as Rene Bourque. He goes on a tear for 4-5 games and then completely disappears for 10-15 games. He might be a model off the ice but his work ethics on the ice are questionable.

It's funny how Kovalev was criticized for showing up every X games but Pacioretty can disappear for longer stretches but yet can't be considered in a major trade.

You'd have to be crazy (or not watching the Jets) to not do Kane - Pacioretty straight up. Kane is way more consistent and plays with an edge. Sort of like Simmonds but with more skills. He's only 22 and still has time to mature.

The NHL is so conservative that guys like Subban and Kane stand out for being flashy and extraverted. They would be embraced in the NBA but they're a "distraction" in the NHL.

I won't hold my breath though because our GM obviously thought we had a great team in the offseason and didn't do anything and now it looks like he will extend every soft player we have so we can be a solid bubble team for the next few years.
I agree and I kinda feel piss about it. Making trades takes creativity, balls and be a salesman, something I don't think our GM has and his.

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Old
11-15-2013, 08:32 AM
  #131
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statistical approach to judging a maxpac for E. Kane swap.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...campaign=blogs

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11-15-2013, 08:38 AM
  #132
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Pacioretty reminds me a lot of Martin Rucinsky...

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11-15-2013, 08:41 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
*buzzer sound*


Nope. Wrong.
Well..

Out of Pacioretty's 157 career points, he has 41 on the PP, that's 26%. So 74% of his points are on even strength.

Out of Kane's 170 career points, he has 22 on PP and 1 on PK, so that's 13.5%. So 86.5% of his points are on even strength.

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11-15-2013, 08:43 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
statistical approach to judging a maxpac for E. Kane swap.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...campaign=blogs
There goes the perimeter player argument.

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11-15-2013, 08:46 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverHabsFan View Post
Not sure why Pacioretty always gets a free pass here. I mean, he's got all the tools and he's a beast in the gym but he's just as frustrating to watch as Rene Bourque. He goes on a tear for 4-5 games and then completely disappears for 10-15 games. He might be a model off the ice but his work ethics on the ice are questionable.

It's funny how Kovalev was criticized for showing up every X games but Pacioretty can disappear for longer stretches but yet can't be considered in a major trade.

You'd have to be crazy (or not watching the Jets) to not do Kane - Pacioretty straight up. Kane is way more consistent and plays with an edge. Sort of like Simmonds but with more skills. He's only 22 and still has time to mature.

The NHL is so conservative that guys like Subban and Kane stand out for being flashy and extraverted. They would be embraced in the NBA but they're a "distraction" in the NHL.

I won't hold my breath though because our GM obviously thought we had a great team in the offseason and didn't do anything and now it looks like he will extend every soft player we have so we can be a solid bubble team for the next few years.
I criticized Pacioretty the last week. He should be one of our best players and isn't.

That being said, short of being offered a Tyler Seguin type deal I don't see why we should entertain trading him. With his production, age and contract I would need a ridiculous offer to trade him. Kane is not a bad player, but the fact Winnipeg shops him every year throws up red flags. Maybe I'm interested in him but not for a guy like Pacioretty.

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Old
11-15-2013, 08:46 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Well..

Out of Pacioretty's 157 career points, he has 41 on the PP, that's 26%. So 74% of his points are on even strength.

Out of Kane's 170 career points, he has 22 on PP and 1 on PK, so that's 13.5%. So 86.5% of his points are on even strength.
That's simplistic. As I said, Kane scored only 2 more points ES than he did, with much more ES time. Pacioretty was WAY more productive on the PP, but also had more PP minutes as the Canadiens drew a lot more penalties.

Not really an argument for Kane to be made here.

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Old
11-15-2013, 08:48 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Well..

Out of Pacioretty's 157 career points, he has 41 on the PP, that's 26%. So 74% of his points are on even strength.

Out of Kane's 170 career points, he has 22 on PP and 1 on PK, so that's 13.5%. So 86.5% of his points are on even strength.
All of Mike Blundens points are on even strength, so 100%. He's a better even strength player than Evander Kane.


= Logic?

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Old
11-15-2013, 08:49 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by poetryinmotion View Post
Latendresse also had a gazillion hits in his career, and he's still no more a PF than Pacioretty is. Kane fits more the mold of a traditional one but it's not a night and day difference as you make it seem. At even strength they are equal, while Pacioretty is deadly on the powerplay. You sound like Sens fans when bringing up the Norris trophy. The age argument, again, marginal at best. He's two years younger not three by the way, what a huge deal. Same for goal scoring.


So in conclusion, Kane is slightly better than Patches. That's great. It's still a redundant trade (but it probably won't as we'd have to give up an other asset making us losers) unless you think Pacioretty will be forever injury prone.

What I'd like is for us to get Kane AND keep Patches. But you know what, this rumor is bogus as hell, Kane's not even available I bet.
Are you really comparing Kane to Latendresse?

If you watch him play, you would now he is a REAL powerfoward. Not a fake one with a lot of hits like you seem to think. Anyone in the league knows that.

Of course in an IDEAL world, having both Kane and Pacioretty would be great but to get Kane, it will probably cost us Gallagher or Eller, who I would also rather keep.

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11-15-2013, 08:50 AM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Well..

Out of Pacioretty's 157 career points, he has 41 on the PP, that's 26%. So 74% of his points are on even strength.

Out of Kane's 170 career points, he has 22 on PP and 1 on PK, so that's 13.5%. So 86.5% of his points are on even strength.
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
statistical approach to judging a maxpac for E. Kane swap.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...campaign=blogs
I like you thought that Patches was inferior to Kane (not enough to want to swap the 2 players mind you), but maybe you should read this link and then post your thoughts. If you still believe it, there's no helping you.

My mind has been changed

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Old
11-15-2013, 08:51 AM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
statistical approach to judging a maxpac for E. Kane swap.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...campaign=blogs
After reading this I asko I know hockey? cause I would do a Patch-kane trade. Not one for one but I would do a package for a swap.

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11-15-2013, 08:52 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Are you really comparing Kane to Latendresse?

If you watch him play, you would now he is a REAL powerfoward. Not a fake one with a lot of hits like you seem to think. Anyone in the league knows that.

Of course in an IDEAL world, having both Kane and Pacioretty would be great but to get Kane, it will probably cost us Gallagher or Eller, who I would also rather keep.
No, hence why I said Kane is more in the mold of a 'traditional' pf type. I was just refuting your point about the hits stat.

I'd trade Gallagher or Eller in a second for Kane.

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11-15-2013, 08:53 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I criticized Pacioretty the last week. He should be one of our best players and isn't.

That being said, short of being offered a Tyler Seguin type deal I don't see why we should entertain trading him. With his production, age and contract I would need a ridiculous offer to trade him. Kane is not a bad player, but the fact Winnipeg shops him every year throws up red flags. Maybe I'm interested in him but not for a guy like Pacioretty.
Do we know that for sure? I'm sure a lot of teams perceive us as wanting to trade PK because there's always some controversy about him in the media.

Pacioretty is just one of those players you watch and want to smash your TV in despair. If he had the intensity of Chuckie and Gally, he would put up 100 pts every year. I just think what we've seen from him is pretty much his ceiling.

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11-15-2013, 08:53 AM
  #143
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Are you drunk?

Pacioretty has one of the best contracts in the NHL, why would you even entertain trading him...and for an albatross contract like Myers?

I don't even think I'd do Myers and Armia for Desharnais or Quailer let alone for Pacioretty.

Wilson and Josi are solid young players, but that deal is sn easy no for MB. Neither player is close to Pacioretty, plus they are only 11 and 18 months younger. People forget that Pacioretty is only 24 and signed to a sweetheart deal. Would require a big time player or future star to trade him.
5.5M for a 23 year old we'd eventually use on our top pair? skillwise i would take myers over josi but when considering their contracts i would take josi
josi and myers are pretty much the only 2 top 2'ish players we could trade for and get an additional piece back to replace patches with

kulikov is a top 4 but he might have top 2 potential, we wouldnt need to trade anyone from our forward core for him most likely


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Old
11-15-2013, 08:53 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
All of Mike Blundens points are on even strength, so 100%. He's a better even strength player than Evander Kane.


= Logic?
Well, 8 pts compared to 170 pts is not quite the same.

A powerforward doesn't need the space of the PP to produce, he creates his own space and crashes the net, that's why they are more effetive at even strength.

Let's face it, Pacioretty has been playing on the perimeter for quite a while now, do you honestly believe a player playing on the perimeter is more effective 5 on 5 than a player that crashes the net like a PF?

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11-15-2013, 08:54 AM
  #145
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Are you really comparing Kane to Latendresse?

If you watch him play, you would now he is a REAL powerfoward. Not a fake one with a lot of hits like you seem to think. Anyone in the league knows that.

Of course in an IDEAL world, having both Kane and Pacioretty would be great but to get Kane, it will probably cost us Gallagher or Eller, who I would also rather keep.
If it's Eller for Kane...hard to pass here. I like Eller and would much rather keep him since we are weak at center so....

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11-15-2013, 08:57 AM
  #146
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After reading this I asko I know hockey? cause I would do a Patch-kane trade. Not one for one but I would do a package for a swap.
I think a lot of people get mesmerized by the whole physicality aspect of a player.

Well, that's not fair, they get mesmerized by any exciting component of a player's game. Subban rushing the puck up the ice is what sticks in most fans' heads, and it's the #1 reason most fans around the league still see him as an offensive defenseman who 'gambles' a lot. It's still not true. Subban's excellent body and stick work in the corner generally helps the team keep pucks out of the net way more than his monster hit, but it's the part of his game that is recognized least, which is sad.

Kane is more physical, gritty etc. than Maxpac, but if that grittiness doesn't produce more goals, and thus more wins, what's the point?

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11-15-2013, 08:59 AM
  #147
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If it's Eller for Kane...hard to pass here. I like Eller and would much rather keep him since we are weak at center so....
Yup, value wise, I'd do Eller for Kane in a heartbeat but that would cause a gap in center so it doesn't make us better.

I'd trade Gallagher for Kane but that Jets won't do it. I'd add a 2nd but then again, still not sure why the Jets would do that since there's no reason for them to trade Kane.

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11-15-2013, 09:02 AM
  #148
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So here is an attemp to keep all our good peices and getting Kane.

To Winnipeg:
Gionta-Tinordi-McCarron+ 1/2014

Nontreal:
Kane

So that's 3 1st over a 5 year spane and leadership for Kane.
To much?

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11-15-2013, 09:04 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I think a lot of people get mesmerized by the whole physicality aspect of a player.

Well, that's not fair, they get mesmerized by any exciting component of a player's game. Subban rushing the puck up the ice is what sticks in most fans' heads, and it's the #1 reason most fans around the league still see him as an offensive defenseman who 'gambles' a lot. It's still not true. Subban's excellent body and stick work in the corner generally helps the team keep pucks out of the net way more than his monster hit, but it's the part of his game that is recognized least, which is sad.

Kane is more physical, gritty etc. than Maxpac, but if that grittiness doesn't produce more goals, and thus more wins, what's the point?
It helps when your team is filled with perimeter player? Having a PF also creates spaces for your linemates.

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11-15-2013, 09:04 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I think a lot of people get mesmerized by the whole physicality aspect of a player.

Well, that's not fair, they get mesmerized by any exciting component of a player's game. Subban rushing the puck up the ice is what sticks in most fans' heads, and it's the #1 reason most fans around the league still see him as an offensive defenseman who 'gambles' a lot. It's still not true. Subban's excellent body and stick work in the corner generally helps the team keep pucks out of the net way more than his monster hit, but it's the part of his game that is recognized least, which is sad.

Kane is more physical, gritty etc. than Maxpac, but if that grittiness doesn't produce more goals, and thus more wins, what's the point?
the point is having kane on a line with players like galchenyuk and gallagher would make it less likely for players like lucic to bully them around, that in itself is a pretty big asset. it would allow our younger kids to play their game much more comfortably

and not to take anything away from pacioretty but kane has more explosiveness in his strides, that being said patches is no slouch either when it comes to skating




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