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11-15-2013, 01:51 PM
  #1
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Crossfit

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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
That's the old school mentality. Most of the huge guys you see in the gym can't even throw a baseball properly but I consider lifting weights to be "their sport" so to each his own. If you want to be a better athlete, which most power lifters are not, the common consensus is doing training like cross fit, P90X, Insanity where you are doing your entire body, getting more flexible and working on your diet. The funny part about power lifters at the gym is when they sit there for 5 minutes in between sets, I don't remember playing a sport where I can say 'hold up, give me 5 minutes so I can recover and then we can continue". Not to mention power lifting is about a dirty a "sport" as there is out there. That said those big muscles do look good when you Hulk up out of your shirt when you hit the ring for a match with The Ultimate Warrior, brother.
In that same vein:

Since everyone says bodybuilding is counterproductive for hockey, what about Crossfit? Does anyone have experience with it? I'm sure it helps in regards to core strength and intensity, but where does it fall in the spectrum of ideal workout for hockey?

I'm open to being wrong but this is my personal bias:


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11-15-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
That's the old school mentality. Most of the huge guys you see in the gym can't even throw a baseball properly but I consider lifting weights to be "their sport" so to each his own. If you want to be a better athlete, which most power lifters are not, the common consensus is doing training like cross fit, P90X, Insanity where you are doing your entire body, getting more flexible and working on your diet. The funny part about power lifters at the gym is when they sit there for 5 minutes in between sets, I don't remember playing a sport where I can say 'hold up, give me 5 minutes so I can recover and then we can continue". Not to mention power lifting is about a dirty a "sport" as there is out there. That said those big muscles do look good when you Hulk up out of your shirt when you hit the ring for a match with The Ultimate Warrior, brother.
I understand what your getting at but I think you have it all wrong.

In fact, power lifters are very athletic. Some or many or whatever, may not be able to throw a baseball but that has to do more with skill than athletics IMO (though it does take a good level of both). Just like how a baseball player may not be able to do a Clean and Jerk. Which is a very atheltic based movement.

You might be thinking of body builders... Guys who naturally want to move weight as least efficient as possible. More slow based movement to attack more muscles and have them grow.



Athletes in a sport like hockey or soccer or football should do more strength and conditioning involving Olympic Lifts such as the clean and jerk, snatch, differ variations of squats. They are very athletic based movements. In fact, I think more people even outside of sports should do them for various of reasons. instead we do very little compound movements, very little leg work and very little warm up or stretching. And care even less about proper recovery and nutrition.

Even if you dont join a Crossfit gym. I have not yet due to $, but will soon. I heavily consider many people get into it. The Crossfit ideaology is great for sports because its very general in a lot of functional based movements and its all about true fitness.

My favorite part of their community is their huge library (from the actual business to various affiliations to various trainers and pro athletes) and they talk about everything from training, programming, pro schedules, diet, recovery and everything.

My fav podcast (by amateur crossfitters who have degrees in fitness and health and whatever) is called Barbell shrugged. On Itunes or youtube.

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11-15-2013, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickchecked View Post
In that same vein:

Since everyone says bodybuilding is counterproductive for hockey, what about Crossfit? Does anyone have experience with it? I'm sure it helps in regards to core strength and intensity, but where does it fall in the spectrum of ideal workout for hockey?

I'm open to being wrong but this is my personal bias:

I've steered clear of Crossfit. Everyone I know who's done it has gotten injured after a few months.

One of them described it as a great way to get in shape quickly, but as an unsustainable thing to keep doing.

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11-15-2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Stickchecked View Post
In that same vein:

Since everyone says bodybuilding is counterproductive for hockey, what about Crossfit? Does anyone have experience with it? I'm sure it helps in regards to core strength and intensity, but where does it fall in the spectrum of ideal workout for hockey?

I'm open to being wrong but this is my personal bias:

So funny, just brought it up...

Look up Will Johnson (NFL) Crossfit... I think its his name. Pitt Steelers FB.

Great story of it all.
I think he played College ball at VT. He was a starter there. But did not get drafted, would not give up. For like a year he trained by himself but no one was calling. He did the routine stuff on top of working.

A friend of his said he should try the new work out sensation of Crossfit. He looked it up and decided to go to their gym.

He saw the trainers son, ripped as hell. Trainer said he does Crossfit. Guy said lets do it lol.

First thing they changed was his diet.
Next they made him more mobile doing Crossfit work outs. And the intensity is great for sports like football or hockey.

He did it for 6 months and then went to VT Alumni scouting combine or something. A thing for NFL to scout maybe hopeful NFL guys they missed earlier. No one ever gets really looked at though seriously. No one ever has been signed from it.

Well, Will Johnson did. Credits a lot of it to Crossfit.
He still does it I think and hes became a Pro bowler like 3x

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11-15-2013, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I've steered clear of Crossfit. Everyone I know who's done it has gotten injured after a few months.

One of them described it as a great way to get in shape quickly, but as an unsustainable thing to keep doing.
That's my sense as well. I'd love to do dialed down Crossfit. I like the essence of it but I don't need people yelling at me and going all cult-y on my workouts. And I don't want to pushed to the point of injury. (Hockey accomplishes that just fine, thank you very much.)

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11-15-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I've steered clear of Crossfit. Everyone I know who's done it has gotten injured after a few months.

One of them described it as a great way to get in shape quickly, but as an unsustainable thing to keep doing.
Lmao.
Ive seen plenty of guys get hurt doing lifts at the gym doing the same thing everyone else has.

Crossfit Trainers are taught to teach the lifts first with proper form and balance. Then to worry about intensity. But like any trainer, does not mean its always followed well.

Look at the best Crossfitters. They been doing it for years. Bigger weights and a more impacted schedule of training.

They get hurt like any other athlete in a sport.

So I hear you have to really get a nice gym because some gyms have problems with seeing your limitations.

Either way, its not so much the Gym membership I care for. I would say, research the topic. You can on their site, on others blogs, on podcasts and youtube... and its GREAT. The ideaology of doing Olympic lifts, functional movements, gymnastics, proper recovery, great nutrition. Awesome!

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11-15-2013, 02:24 PM
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I think you guys have the wrong idea of Crossfit. I am sure there are some athletes who do it and are annoying about it... just like there are body builders and power lifters who are the same.

Personally, I have met a few friends who are not like that at all. They are just proud of doing some challenging stuff.

The workouts and ideaology is what I like. I am sure some of it gets lost through the bushes and some affiliates I am sure hvae their issues. But I have a few great ones by me.


But for now I just take their methods and do it.
Someone is not there yelling at me.. they are pushing me. And I hear from people that everyone else minds their business as their focused doing PRs.

Its what I like... Not globogym stuff. Your going no where fast with 30-60 min treadmills, curls, machines and benching of 3 sets 10 reps.

I like when someone is there pushing me to do my best. If you cant go a certain movement, tell them. but people dont like to speak up. Or people have issues with knowing whats teh differ between pain and soreness or fatigued.

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11-15-2013, 02:37 PM
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I cant afford 150+ a month yet. I am looking into it soon though.
Another issue is their class schedules. Its not always as easy to just get up and go inside and work out on your time. I have a bad schedule and sooo, thats been a challenge. Probably the biggest.

I know some crossfit places are not the best trained. Some trainers think barking like a dog and making guys go through their maxes will be the best. They forget the #1 rules at Crossfit, its all about form, balance and flexibility.

But I also put the blame on the athletes themselves.

I know two people who got Rhabdo from Crossfit. Common Crossfit injury. It doesnt happen because you DID crossfit. Its because you went past your limit and your body was dehydrated. So the same thing when your doing complex olympic lifts. Your not realizing when your body is saying NO and your listeing to the barking dog.

Anyway. Like I said. Crossfit has made me learn so much more about metabolic conditioning, functional strength and nutrition and recovery and I never stepped in their gyms once.

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11-15-2013, 02:38 PM
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My three friends who got hurt doing Crossfit all said they were pushed to go past their limit and ignore warning signs by overly aggressive trainers. The workouts themselves are fine, but the culture that goes with it sounds like it has high potential to go wrong.

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11-15-2013, 02:45 PM
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A quick google of Rhabdo brought up the idea of partner workouts and that's where the problem lies for me with Crossfit. It's one thing if you have a matched partner who you're familiar with and there exists similar athletic abilities. One pushing the other is a great thing because it can only go so far.

But if it's just pairing off based on the arbitrary participants during a given session, well, a mismatch is bound to happen and I don't care to kill myself trying to keep up with someone who is far more fit.

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11-15-2013, 03:12 PM
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Hey, then that is a whole different animal.
If thats what you want to do, then I am sure your doing what you want.

And I respect that. Body Building and strength sports in general. I respect it all.

But if were talking hockey and hockey training. I dont understand why peoples work outs consist of 1 day (1-2 hours of) chest. Then one day of legs. Then one day of biceps and back. And so on... Most, doing 3-4 days of isolated movements and their typical 2-4 days of hockey. Honestly. I laugh at that hockey training.

I laugh even more when they sacrifice form of their squats and bench and all lifts for more weight.

Basically. They have the idea to get stronger (in a sport) is to get bigger and to lift like Arnold Swarch and what not
Oh yea, totally. To be good at X, train for X. No way around that one to guarantee success. I was just going on about my prior successes and goals and offering a "here's why you need a real plan in the gym" thought process. You certainly know but so many don't - that simply lifting in any manner doesn't mean anything.

I was fanatical about BB and PL for a while after my hockey career, then out of nowhere I got back into hockey. As I mentioned, I was 70lbs. heavier from when I stopped skating years prior. Beyond that, not only were my legs 10 years' worth of being out of shape but moreover they'd been trained for other purposes. I'm sure you can imagine the fun that was to overcome

A lack of quality form is everywhere though, I do my best to ignore it because it's never going away. Bad form, funny exercises, ridiculous routines, etc. Nothing's better than when a huge guy uses some lighter weights for hypertrophy purposes and gets funny looks from little twigs using their entire body to move a 50lb. weight in an awful motion


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11-15-2013, 03:34 PM
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I argue weights are a form of resistance training and are excellent to improve in any sport. The gym I went to had an unlimited amount as they were all free weights. The heaviest on the dumb bell was 25lbs but you could stack 3 on each side.
I agree that any form of resistance training will certainly be better than doing nothing. To a point, anyway, after a certain level one can only help themselves with a half-ass workout.

And since I don't think anyone mentioned it, and surely most of us know it already, I'm sure some don't and therefore the more they see it the better: proper nutrition is just as important as being in the gym. I can't remember the last time I focused less on nutrition vs. anything else. It's funny to think back to the old days before I cared about any of this stuff, I cannot remember how it used to be whatsoever.

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11-15-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickchecked View Post
In that same vein:

Since everyone says bodybuilding is counterproductive for hockey, what about Crossfit? Does anyone have experience with it? I'm sure it helps in regards to core strength and intensity, but where does it fall in the spectrum of ideal workout for hockey?

I'm open to being wrong but this is my personal bias:

Crossfit is only good if the person training you actually knows on what They are doing. If You notice, there is a lot of bad form used when doing Crossfit exercises.

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11-15-2013, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I think you guys have the wrong idea of Crossfit. I am sure there are some athletes who do it and are annoying about it... just like there are body builders and power lifters who are the same.

Personally, I have met a few friends who are not like that at all. They are just proud of doing some challenging stuff.

The workouts and ideaology is what I like. I am sure some of it gets lost through the bushes and some affiliates I am sure hvae their issues. But I have a few great ones by me.


But for now I just take their methods and do it.
Someone is not there yelling at me.. they are pushing me. And I hear from people that everyone else minds their business as their focused doing PRs.

Its what I like... Not globogym stuff. Your going no where fast with 30-60 min treadmills, curls, machines and benching of 3 sets 10 reps.

I like when someone is there pushing me to do my best. If you cant go a certain movement, tell them. but people dont like to speak up. Or people have issues with knowing whats teh differ between pain and soreness or fatigued.
The best and most effective way to lift is to do 5X5 when lifting. It keeps You from not losing form, while still getting a strength workout n.

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11-15-2013, 05:03 PM
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Doing crossfit is like riding a motorcycle.. It's not a question of if, but rather when, you will get hurt. My wife and her entire immediate family all work as doctors or PT's and have seen many patients on both sides with CF injuries.

Also, it really isn't sustainable as a routine for any period of time. How are you going to Crossfit when you're 55? Don't think you are going to be doing snatches and muscle ups at that age, or really past 30.

Here's some good insight on how a CF "trainer" becomes certified: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...up_by_crossfit

Here's a good article on high rep Olympic lifting (basically the foundation of many CF WODs): http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lympic_lifting


Oh, and not to be on topic or anything, but the dumbbells at my gym (LA Fitness) only go up to 125.

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11-16-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maupin Fan View Post
Doing crossfit is like riding a motorcycle.. It's not a question of if, but rather when, you will get hurt. My wife and her entire immediate family all work as doctors or PT's and have seen many patients on both sides with CF injuries.

Also, it really isn't sustainable as a routine for any period of time. How are you going to Crossfit when you're 55? Don't think you are going to be doing snatches and muscle ups at that age, or really past 30.

Here's some good insight on how a CF "trainer" becomes certified: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...up_by_crossfit

Here's a good article on high rep Olympic lifting (basically the foundation of many CF WODs): http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lympic_lifting


Oh, and not to be on topic or anything, but the dumbbells at my gym (LA Fitness) only go up to 125.
It doesn't take much to become a certified personal trainer either. I'd still rather have somebody new or totally out of shape hire a trainer than go to the gym and try stuff on their own.

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11-16-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
That's the old school mentality. Most of the huge guys you see in the gym can't even throw a baseball properly but I consider lifting weights to be "their sport" so to each his own. If you want to be a better athlete, which most power lifters are not, the common consensus is doing training like cross fit, P90X, Insanity where you are doing your entire body, getting more flexible and working on your diet. The funny part about power lifters at the gym is when they sit there for 5 minutes in between sets, I don't remember playing a sport where I can say 'hold up, give me 5 minutes so I can recover and then we can continue". Not to mention power lifting is about a dirty a "sport" as there is out there. That said those big muscles do look good when you Hulk up out of your shirt when you hit the ring for a match with The Ultimate Warrior, brother.
Wow, so much misinformation I don't even know where to start. First of all, lifting weights doesn't automatically make you big. In fact, power lifting is completely different from body building, and the objective is not to "bulk up" like body builders do.

Second of all, **** like P90x and crossfit is for fat unfit people trying to get into shape, not athletes or people who are already fit and looking to improve whatever sport they are playing.

You need time between sets to allow your muscles to recover, and maximize the strength building. Like I said, weight lifting is a supplement to whatever sport you play, so you should already be in good shape. You are trying to gain strength that would otherwise be unattainable though whatever practice/playing regimen you already do for your sport.

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11-16-2013, 01:22 PM
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Wow, so much misinformation I don't even know where to start. First of all, lifting weights doesn't automatically make you big. In fact, power lifting is completely different from body building, and the objective is not to "bulk up" like body builders do.

Second of all, **** like P90x and crossfit is for fat unfit people trying to get into shape, not athletes or people who are already fit and looking to improve whatever sport they are playing.

You need time between sets to allow your muscles to recover, and maximize the strength building. Like I said, weight lifting is a supplement to whatever sport you play, so you should already be in good shape. You are trying to gain strength that would otherwise be unattainable though whatever practice/playing regimen you already do for your sport.

This must be seconded. Powerlifting is a sport unto itself and the athletes train accordingly. It's not simply "lifting as heavy as you can". Any idiot can do that. A great deal of powerlifting training revolves around speed work to train the movements, to some moreso than training for a max number unlike what the average Joe does in the gym.

When the heavy weights do come into play, as stated, there is a REASON powerlifters rest for minutes at a time. Your muscles and CNS need time to become ready to go. When absolute top strength and neural drive isn't a concern for a lift then the need for longer periods of rest lessens drastically.

The idea of Crossfit isn't anything new, it's just the current big thing. Of course it "works", because the basic components of lifting and conditioning are utilized. One could do that with any half-assed routine as long as they stick to it and ensure linear progression over time. Not to mention a decent amount of exercises Crossfitters think are so amazing have been done by powerlifters since the day before forever...

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11-17-2013, 10:28 PM
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I work out with a really excellent trainer, and his comment is Crossfit is a great way to get in shape but 95% of people are not in good enough shape to do it. That may explain the injuries.

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11-17-2013, 10:43 PM
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I work out with a really excellent trainer, and his comment is Crossfit is a great way to get in shape but 95% of people are not in good enough shape to do it. That may explain the injuries.
For sure, plus no matter which type of training is done you know some will always push themselves just a bit too far. It's easy enough to hurt oneself in the gym but it's that much easier to do so with some of the popular exercises they use. The same argument could be made for those who train primarily with Olympic lifts too; it's ripe for effing people up.

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11-18-2013, 03:34 PM
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Crossfit is only good if the person training you actually knows on what They are doing. If You notice, there is a lot of bad form used when doing Crossfit exercises.
I dont think that ONLY applies to Crossfit. That applies in everything actually. I mean in hockey alone, there are plenty of people who go out there with bad skating form, bad shooting form, bad checking form. And all those can be bad for performance and your endurance and health. Same goes for bad positioning which hurts yourself and your team.

But back to fitness.

Bad form is everywhere as well. For example, I cringe everytime at my gym (LA fitness) and I try so hard to ignore it and focus on myself but I cant help but to gasp or look like I saw a ghost.

Were talking about people using a swinging motion with their back to curl dumbbells.
Were talking about people going for HUGE squats and not even getting close to a REAL squat but they dc cuz then they can say they did that weight
Also, I see plenty of people doing benching and having their back lopsided to lift heavy

I never understood trying to always MAX out. You will see far better gains if you do weights you can handle for most of the time and just do more of it.

What else? I can probably go all day.
Machines? People dont do real reps. They do halfsies and usually with poor form and thats on a machine.



Sitting. Not even an exercise. But most people sit or stand for hours at end in the day. They do it incredibly wrong and ruin their bodies

Same with eating

So lets not blame Crossfit here. Its like anything else.

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11-18-2013, 04:06 PM
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Wow, so much misinformation I don't even know where to start. First of all, lifting weights doesn't automatically make you big. In fact, power lifting is completely different from body building, and the objective is not to "bulk up" like body builders do.

Second of all, **** like P90x and crossfit is for fat unfit people trying to get into shape, not athletes or people who are already fit and looking to improve whatever sport they are playing.

You need time between sets to allow your muscles to recover, and maximize the strength building. Like I said, weight lifting is a supplement to whatever sport you play, so you should already be in good shape. You are trying to gain strength that would otherwise be unattainable though whatever practice/playing regimen you already do for your sport.

Crossfit is for unfit people?
That might the biggest misinformed thing on this blog.

The concept of cross fit is used widely throughout sports including NBA, NHL, NFL and other pro sport athletes. Kobe Bryant himself said, I dont do "crossfit" but what I do is pretty much the same thing. So basically, hes always been involved in the idea of cross training. HIIT, weight lifting, gymnastics, yoga, diet etc.

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11-18-2013, 04:38 PM
  #23
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I've got a few problems with Crossfit...

First, it's short on safety. Lifting should not be done for speed. That's incredibly stupid. A lot of the form is bad. Kipping? No.

Second, there's poor progression. You're not growing lifts with WOD so much as randomly doing a bunch of stuff. If you want to alternate lifting days with cardio, that's fine, but you should be trying to work towards something with both of them. Have a plan.

Third, it's cultish. One of my best friends wives got pulled into the cult and ran off with another guy leaving him to deal with the kids and the financial fallout.

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11-19-2013, 08:01 AM
  #24
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Doing crossfit is like riding a motorcycle.. It's not a question of if, but rather when, you will get hurt. My wife and her entire immediate family all work as doctors or PT's and have seen many patients on both sides with CF injuries.

Also, it really isn't sustainable as a routine for any period of time. How are you going to Crossfit when you're 55? Don't think you are going to be doing snatches and muscle ups at that age, or really past 30.

Here's some good insight on how a CF "trainer" becomes certified: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...up_by_crossfit

Here's a good article on high rep Olympic lifting (basically the foundation of many CF WODs): http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...lympic_lifting


Oh, and not to be on topic or anything, but the dumbbells at my gym (LA Fitness) only go up to 125.
Crossfit is not like riding a motorcycle. In no way or degree will I ever agree with that statement.

Also, just stating the word "many" does not mean anything to me. It should not mean anything to anyone on here. I see many injuries with people just going to LA fitness or working out in their home. I see many people getting hurt walking up/down the stairs. And it doesnt mean much in the context that you used it, that your wife and relatives are certified in any degree pertaining to this.

What is "many". How many. What type of CF injuries.

And even when you answer that. I will already know the answer. Its typical among any HIIT when form is lacked, when balance is unfocused. When people only care about lifting and working out, and forgetting that warm ups, cool downs, recovery treatments, nutrition is all important.

My friend only uses machines and dumbells in his work outs. Idk why. Hes at least 50lbs heavier than me, and he doesnt lift heavy at all in reference to his weight. I lift heavier than he can on a regular basis. Easy. I work out much more than him, I include OLY Lifts in my routines, and running and I do more on a daily basis than he probably does in 2-3 days. Yet, just by doing machines he always gets a hurt back. In fact sometimes he gets it so bad that he has to stop for a week or more and at one point I believe he had a herniated disc.

So im doing more crossfit like work outs. He is typical guy you see at a globo gym. And why have I never been hurt seriously. NOt even close. Not like... ooooo that was a close one with my back. Why? Because I followed the simple basic teachings that I learned on Crossfit Journal Intro Class. About warm ups, weights, form. Stretching.

If some crossfit athlete doesnt stretch properly before a big work out. Thats his fault. Not the gym or the class. Same goes for what he eats, what he does in between classes.



Crossfit is very sustainable. It just depends whats your weights. If I can snatch 150lbs... Someone else shouldnt be doing that same weight. Maybe they do more or less.

I see plenty of great stories and articles and medical journals about 80 year old WOMEN still doing Crossfit.

Women in their second trimester still performing Olympic lifts.

Children who work out in crossfit gyms



It is sustainable. Its amazing if you remember Crossfits #1 rule. Not from a single affiliation. Their main idea from the big boss himself.

First is Focus. Second is form. Third is intensity.

Whatever you do. Whether you join a Box. Or do crossfit like stuff at your own place. Remember those things.

You can do a 20 minute WOD. But you can also work out later on in the day and specialize in certain work outs that you wnt to improve in. Like squats.

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11-19-2013, 08:04 AM
  #25
Thesensation19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
It doesn't take much to become a certified personal trainer either. I'd still rather have somebody new or totally out of shape hire a trainer than go to the gym and try stuff on their own.
I agree that you should do some background checks on ANY gym you go to. Some people, like in anything you do, will just go to the classes and get certified and start screaming at people to do more and do better.

Some places are certified or certified in multiple aspects of Crossfit and they know a lot to help you with all the main ideology.

Certifications are sort of misleading anyway. Look at a doctor for example.
I go to one pretty often throughtout a year.

They did blood work and they saw im low in sodium.
He said have some gatorade. More gatorade. and more salty foods like pretzals.

Thanks Doc...
A real professional. I am glad his one nutrition class in undergrad really helped him there.
Safe to say I do not have gatorade on a daily basis or even weekly.

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