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Old
11-13-2013, 04:39 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Bruinswillwin77 View Post
Problem I see with moving Kelly down to the 4th line and putting Campbell on the RW in place of Thornton is that it leaves guys on the 3rd line that I'm not so sure Claude would all want on one line(at least for an extended period of time.)

What would the 3rd line consist of? Smith-Spooner-Soderberg? Or do you move Marchand down to the 3rd line and keep Smith on the 2nd? Even then I don't see Claude liking Spooner/Soderberg together on 1 line until they gain his defensive confidence. Thoughts?
I could see Claude's apprehension at putting those three together. I honestly haven't paid much attention to Reilly's defensive game, but I've noticed Soderberg is quite solid defensively.

Spooner had a reputation in juniors of being a poor defensive player, I'm not sure where his defensive game stands now. I didn't see anything awful from him in his two games, but it is just two games.

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11-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #102
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1 assist and 3 shots on goal so far in 6 games in november for Kelly... Seems like he'd be better suited on the 4th line, which isn't a knock against him.

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11-15-2013, 01:17 PM
  #103
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1 assist and 3 shots on goal so far in 6 games in november for Kelly... Seems like he'd be better suited on the 4th line, which isn't a knock against him.
In other news i think soderberg has looked great save some brain farts

I really think this team would benefit long term from putting spooner with smith and soderberg and kelly with soup and pie and sitting shawn for a bit

If the playoffs come and you have no choice but to play spooner due to injury and he's only played 10 games this season versus say 50-60, youd be forcing a player in that isnt as ready as he could have been. Id rather play him now while the games dont matter as much. Hard to argue with a winning formula but it's become kind of a theme where claude puts in the guy/makes the line combo we had all been pining for when it's already too late

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11-15-2013, 01:24 PM
  #104
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I've always been a fan of Kelly's, but both he and Marchand were probably the worst Bruins on the ice last night.

Intangibles, leadership... that stuff can only take you so far when you have a potential young stud center waiting in the wings.

In the Blue Jackets game Soderberg burst through the neutral zone, burning the D, and made a perfect backhand pass to Kelly (who was right in the slot) and Kelly blew a prime opportunity by mishandling it completely.

An A+ scoring chance and we don't even get a *weak shot* out of it. Soderberg needs to learn to just shoot it himself, Kelly is not skilled enough to convert those plays in traffic.

I might add there was another beautiful pass Soderberg made later in the game and Kelly again mishandled what could've been scoring chance.

For all the talk of Kelly being a leader, it actually seems like he is the weak link right now in the 3rd line. I know he is a great PK'er and he is a hard worker... but it's as if he lost the finer skills that got him into the NHL.

Both Soderberg AND Smith need to shoot more. Kelly is not a guy you want to jump over mountains to get the puck and pull the trigger... the younger guys have to do it themselves.

That's not just a knock on Kelly, Soderberg needs to shoot that instead of making a fancy backhand pass that Kelly clearly was not ready for (but should have been).

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11-15-2013, 01:27 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by KnightofBoston View Post
In other news i think soderberg has looked great save some brain farts

I really think this team would benefit long term from putting spooner with smith and soderberg and kelly with soup and pie and sitting shawn for a bit

If the playoffs come and you have no choice but to play spooner due to injury and he's only played 10 games this season versus say 50-60, youd be forcing a player in that isnt as ready as he could have been. Id rather play him now while the games dont matter as much. Hard to argue with a winning formula but it's become kind of a theme where claude puts in the guy/makes the line combo we had all been pining for when it's already too late
Exactly, and it's not like we're saying trade Kelly, he sucks. We're in a spot where we can potentially upgrade the bottom two lines with Spooner on the third so it becomes more potent offensively, and Kelly on the fourth so that line becomes better at puck possession and defense.

At this point does it really matter if we lose Caron to waivers?

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11-15-2013, 01:48 PM
  #106
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Im sure it matters to the front office

Do they need to put caron on waivers in order to call up spooner and sit shawn?

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11-15-2013, 01:51 PM
  #107
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Im sure it matters to the front office

Do they need to put caron on waivers in order to call up spooner and sit shawn?
I think Dom mentioned they're really close to the cap so if they want to bring up Spooner, they'll want to get rid of someone like Caron to keep some cap flexibility.

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11-15-2013, 01:52 PM
  #108
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What about Campbell, he's the only forward who's played in every game without a goal. Sit his *** for a game or 2 and throw Spooner in.

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11-15-2013, 02:38 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bruinswillwin77 View Post
What about Campbell, he's the only forward who's played in every game without a goal. Sit his *** for a game or 2 and throw Spooner in.
Soupy has a decent excuse for the time being (but it will only fly for so long...) in that his off-season routine was badly disrupted by the broken leg he suffered last year.

Even putting that aside, he is still skating better and overall looks more effective than Thornton is right now. Yes Thorty has two goals... but so what?? There is so much more that goes into evaluating player performance than just goals.

Not to mention, Thorty's goal last night was even luckier than Eriksson's goal. At least Loui won position in front of the net and clearly stuck his skate out (**note he did not "kick the puck") at an angle that made for a nice deflection of Z's shot.

I give Eriksson higher marks for that goal -- in which he didn't even shoot the puck himself -- than Thorty for his goal. Luck is a factor on many goals... but especially for those that find the net via a deflection off an opposing player's stick. Those are almost pure luck.

Of course i was thrilled with the goal, and Shawn deserves some props just for slapping it on net... but my point is that it really doesn't do much to alter the overall effectiveness of his game so far this year.

He just looks a step-slow(er) and at 36 his age is really starting to show... not to mention all those punches to the head

If/when Spooner gets called back up, and i hope it happens BEFORE it is a necessity due to injury, i still think Thornton should become the 13th man in the rotation.

Give Campbell a little more time to re-gain his groove, he is a lot younger than Thornton too.

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11-15-2013, 02:41 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Sea Bass Neely View Post
Soupy has a decent excuse for the time being (but it will only fly for so long...) in that his off-season routine was badly disrupted by the broken leg he suffered last year.

Even putting that aside, he is still skating better and overall looks more effective than Thornton is right now. Yes Thorty has two goals... but so what?? There is so much more that goes into evaluating player performance than just goals.

Not to mention, Thorty's goal last night was even luckier than Eriksson's goal. At least Loui won position in front of the net and clearly stuck his skate out (**note he did not "kick the puck") at an angle that made for a nice deflection of Z's shot.

I give Eriksson higher marks for that goal -- in which he didn't even shoot the puck himself -- than Thorty for his goal. Luck is a factor on many goals... but especially for those that find the net via a deflection off an opposing player's stick. Those are almost pure luck.

Of course i was thrilled with the goal, and Shawn deserves some props just for slapping it on net... but my point is that it really doesn't do much to alter the overall effectiveness of his game so far this year.

He just looks a step-slow(er) and at 36 his age is really starting to show... not to mention all those punches to the head

If/when Spooner gets called back up, and i hope it happens BEFORE it is a necessity due to injury, i still think Thornton should become the 13th man in the rotation.

Give Campbell a little more time to re-gain his groove, he is a lot younger than Thornton too.
I agree, and I remember him stating that it felt weird skating with metal in his leg that he can feel. I have 13 screws and 2 plates in my right leg(mid lower leg thru ankle) from a car accident 19 months ago and I haven't skated since but I can picture it, so I see what you mean with his lack of training camp and all.

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11-15-2013, 02:41 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Bruinswillwin77 View Post
What about Campbell, he's the only forward who's played in every game without a goal. Sit his *** for a game or 2 and throw Spooner in.
I thought the 4th line has been looking a quite a bit better in the past few games, they seem be getting more takeaways in the neutral zone and fore-checking a lot better.

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11-15-2013, 02:44 PM
  #112
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I thought the 4th line has been looking a quite a bit better in the past few games, they seem be getting more takeaways in the neutral zone and fore-checking a lot better.
See, I've missed the past 3 games due to being at work so I haven't seen that much in detail. Glad to hear though.

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11-19-2013, 06:00 PM
  #113
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...

Just shooting this out there.

The Bruins are 11th in the league in faceoff %.

Bergeron is smokin' at 58.4%.
Krejci comes in like a wrecking ball at 53.4%.

Kelly? 48.9% (well below where we expect him).
Campbell? 41.8%! That sucks!

No way with our top two guys crushing that circle, that we should be out of the top five. This is an area of Kelly's game that I frequently laud (he was at 58% at the dot last season). Definitely would love to see some improvement from him and Soupy there.

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11-19-2013, 06:26 PM
  #114
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I think that Kelly is severely under appreciated by Bruin fans. I get that he is overpaid, but there is a lot worse in today's NHL. Every team has at least a few contracts they aren't happy with.

So he is overpaid by a million bucks. Not a big deal.

He is a great leader, great checking centre, and a great penalty killer.

He is good on faceoffs (i know he hasn't been this year yet) and has been through two runs to the Stanley Cup Finals.

Will he put up big numbers? No Do we need our 3rd line centre too? Not really

If he scores 10 goals and puts up 30 to 35 points I am more than happy with him.

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11-19-2013, 08:26 PM
  #115
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I think that Kelly is severely under appreciated by Bruin fans. I get that he is overpaid, but there is a lot worse in today's NHL. Every team has at least a few contracts they aren't happy with.

So he is overpaid by a million bucks. Not a big deal.

He is a great leader, great checking centre, and a great penalty killer.

He is good on faceoffs (i know he hasn't been this year yet) and has been through two runs to the Stanley Cup Finals.

Will he put up big numbers? No Do we need our 3rd line centre too? Not really

If he scores 10 goals and puts up 30 to 35 points I am more than happy with him.
I would argue we do need good numbers from our 3rd line for our system to be most effective.

If you've got a line that isn't chipping in, that's nearly 1/4th of the game that lacks production with our time allocation...not to mention what it does as far as match ups are concerned against Bergy line and Krejci line. For our system to be most effective, we need contributions from the entire top 9.

Weird we went from a board that always said "depth is our biggest strength...we can kill with 3 scoring lines." To "we don't need scoring from our 3rd line, it's unrealistic to expect."

I'd rather have a 3rd line that eats 3rd D pairs for lunch.

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11-20-2013, 09:03 AM
  #116
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I would argue we do need good numbers from our 3rd line for our system to be most effective.

If you've got a line that isn't chipping in, that's nearly 1/4th of the game that lacks production with our time allocation...not to mention what it does as far as match ups are concerned against Bergy line and Krejci line. For our system to be most effective, we need contributions from the entire top 9.

Weird we went from a board that always said "depth is our biggest strength...we can kill with 3 scoring lines." To "we don't need scoring from our 3rd line, it's unrealistic to expect."

I'd rather have a 3rd line that eats 3rd D pairs for lunch.
In all fairness, when this team "killed" with 3 scoring lines, it was due to the top 2 lines scoring consistently themselves, and opponents rarely having the depth to stop a 3rd who could do damage.

Krejci`s line scoring consistently, Bergy`s isn`t.....easier for opponents right now.

The open ice/opportunities will come when those opponents have to respect the top two lines

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11-20-2013, 09:05 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by 2KA View Post
I think that Kelly is severely under appreciated by Bruin fans. I get that he is overpaid, but there is a lot worse in today's NHL. Every team has at least a few contracts they aren't happy with.

So he is overpaid by a million bucks. Not a big deal.

He is a great leader, great checking centre, and a great penalty killer.

He is good on faceoffs (i know he hasn't been this year yet) and has been through two runs to the Stanley Cup Finals.

Will he put up big numbers? No Do we need our 3rd line centre too? Not really

If he scores 10 goals and puts up 30 to 35 points I am more than happy with him.
What a player is believed to be worth to fans of any team, and what the market pays...two different stories, I`m with you, he`s underappreciated and I`m absolutely amazed that with the BS game Marchand is bringing to the table, more fans want to yakk about Kelly

And in all truth, if we were to go up and down the roster of virtually every team...I`ll wager we could hand pick at least a half dozen players per lineup, if not more, who are overpaid

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11-20-2013, 09:31 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
In all fairness, when this team "killed" with 3 scoring lines, it was due to the top 2 lines scoring consistently themselves, and opponents rarely having the depth to stop a 3rd who could do damage.

Krejci`s line scoring consistently, Bergy`s isn`t.....easier for opponents right now.

The open ice/opportunities will come when those opponents have to respect the top two lines
I believe he's talking about when our 3 centers were Savard, Bergeron, Krejci.

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11-20-2013, 09:43 AM
  #119
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In all fairness, when this team "killed" with 3 scoring lines, it was due to the top 2 lines scoring consistently themselves, and opponents rarely having the depth to stop a 3rd who could do damage.

Krejci`s line scoring consistently, Bergy`s isn`t.....easier for opponents right now.

The open ice/opportunities will come when those opponents have to respect the top two lines
Agree.

Its frustrating with the second line looking like a third line right now.

I think I would really like to see Spooner get a chance at having a Krejci 2008/2009 type of role. Its a chance we never gave a #2 overall pick rightly or wrongly before shipping him out no less.

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11-20-2013, 09:57 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
In all fairness, when this team "killed" with 3 scoring lines, it was due to the top 2 lines scoring consistently themselves, and opponents rarely having the depth to stop a 3rd who could do damage.

Krejci`s line scoring consistently, Bergy`s isn`t.....easier for opponents right now.

The open ice/opportunities will come when those opponents have to respect the top two lines
Definitely agree, Bergeron's line is playing awful, has been all year, which

But even last year, when the top 2 lines were performing, the third line was a black hole in the offense.

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11-20-2013, 10:09 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by ODAAT View Post
In all fairness, when this team "killed" with 3 scoring lines, it was due to the top 2 lines scoring consistently themselves, and opponents rarely having the depth to stop a 3rd who could do damage.

Krejci`s line scoring consistently, Bergy`s isn`t.....easier for opponents right now.

The open ice/opportunities will come when those opponents have to respect the top two lines
This is it in a nutshell. Now the big question is whether they have 2 lines that can consistently score. Sure it worked for a short period of time, but when you expect 20+ goal scorers to consistently score, by the very nature of what they are, you're going to see peaks and valleys. That's where we're at now. The second line isn't pulling their weight. The third line is doing next to nothing. Everything hinges on the first line to keep scoring and the defense to keep scoring. Is that a solid plan that you can rely on? Your guess is as good as mine, but I haven't been comfortable with the score by committee approach they've used since PC has been here. I think you can have an elite scorer surrounded by this core and you'd even out some of those peaks and valleys.

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11-26-2013, 07:14 AM
  #122
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Figured I'd bump this as it's relevant to the conversation. Last night's win was a good victory, but the only reason it went into OT? Chris Kelly. He was on the ice with Loui and Bergeron at the end, and what does he do? A weak ass clearing attempt that resulted in a bad turnover to Malkin. Then, rather than lay his body on Malkin, he throws a weak stick check attempt that a guy with the physical strength of Malkin's walks through every day of the week. The puck gets reversed, a big scramble to Tuukka's right, and you see Kelly just standing there watching Crosby set up shop on the right post waiting for a pass. That pass comes, Kelly never moves and the game is tied. Lucky for the Bruins that Krug and Marchand came up big in OT with that give and go. Otherwise, Kelly is the goat. What's really troubling is that if Kelly is going to be a black hole offensively, he needs to at least be above average defensively. 3 bad defensive plays in a 30 second span, and directly allowing the other team to tie the game with no time left is shameful.

On another note, did anyone else notice how dynamic and fluid offensively the third line looked when Eriksson was playing there on the PP? If that's not a screaming advertisement for bumping Kelly down, I don't know what is. He's killing that line offensively, and his defense is not a compelling enough reason to keep him there any longer, IMO. It's time to reshuffle and get back to 3 lines carrying the offensive load.

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11-26-2013, 07:46 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Figured I'd bump this as it's relevant to the conversation. Last night's win was a good victory, but the only reason it went into OT? Chris Kelly. He was on the ice with Loui and Bergeron at the end, and what does he do? A weak ass clearing attempt that resulted in a bad turnover to Malkin. Then, rather than lay his body on Malkin, he throws a weak stick check attempt that a guy with the physical strength of Malkin's walks through every day of the week. The puck gets reversed, a big scramble to Tuukka's right, and you see Kelly just standing there watching Crosby set up shop on the right post waiting for a pass. That pass comes, Kelly never moves and the game is tied. Lucky for the Bruins that Krug and Marchand came up big in OT with that give and go. Otherwise, Kelly is the goat. What's really troubling is that if Kelly is going to be a black hole offensively, he needs to at least be above average defensively. 3 bad defensive plays in a 30 second span, and directly allowing the other team to tie the game with no time left is shameful.

On another note, did anyone else notice how dynamic and fluid offensively the third line looked when Eriksson was playing there on the PP? If that's not a screaming advertisement for bumping Kelly down, I don't know what is. He's killing that line offensively, and his defense is not a compelling enough reason to keep him there any longer, IMO. It's time to reshuffle and get back to 3 lines carrying the offensive load.
Again, prefacing this comment as I did in the GDT last night with the statement that Kelly absolutely blew his assignment on Crosby last night, which is not in dispute..... (and I underline this so it's made clear, heaven forbid I be accused of having 23 blinders or worse, being called 'obtuse' in the name of a healthy back and forth on a message board and not dragging down the quality of banter into the gutter )

.....now he's no longer above-average defensively?

In a situation where the Pens were essentially playing with a man advantage, you have all-world players like Malkin, Neal and Crosby on the ice, where that particular Bruin unit had been on the ice for over a minute, where Chara also watches a puck sail across the ice without so much as an effort for to get his stick on it.....

....and Kelly's the sole reason they went into OT?

Lulz.

Big picture here, people. I realize we love to blame one guy because it's easier than looking at the situation as a whole, but that's not really how the mechanics of a game scenario works.

It was a big error on his part. For sure. Face palm worthy.

It's also 100% predictable that his brainfart will bring out the knee-jerk reactions that came out in the GDT and are certain to continue today, because that's the easy thing to do

But again....the guy will do things like cover the defensive middle, giving those young wingers a chance to move around in the space created and score as well as they have to start the season, yet he won't get the credit from a majority of people who prefer to look at the end result as the sole definition of success. It's all "Soderberg and Smith" from predictably the people who don't want to give the Kelly the player the credit for whatever reason, despite the fact that evaluators like say, the head coach, has been effusive in his praise of the entire line as it contributes to the success.

Gets caught playing ****** defense in one game (against the most offensively gifted player in the league no less) and he's an albatross.

Keep on keepin' on. I can set my watch to it.

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11-26-2013, 07:49 AM
  #124
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Figured I'd bump this as it's relevant to the conversation. Last night's win was a good victory, but the only reason it went into OT? Chris Kelly. He was on the ice with Loui and Bergeron at the end, and what does he do? A weak ass clearing attempt that resulted in a bad turnover to Malkin. Then, rather than lay his body on Malkin, he throws a weak stick check attempt that a guy with the physical strength of Malkin's walks through every day of the week. The puck gets reversed, a big scramble to Tuukka's right, and you see Kelly just standing there watching Crosby set up shop on the right post waiting for a pass. That pass comes, Kelly never moves and the game is tied. Lucky for the Bruins that Krug and Marchand came up big in OT with that give and go. Otherwise, Kelly is the goat. What's really troubling is that if Kelly is going to be a black hole offensively, he needs to at least be above average defensively. 3 bad defensive plays in a 30 second span, and directly allowing the other team to tie the game with no time left is shameful.

On another note, did anyone else notice how dynamic and fluid offensively the third line looked when Eriksson was playing there on the PP? If that's not a screaming advertisement for bumping Kelly down, I don't know what is. He's killing that line offensively, and his defense is not a compelling enough reason to keep him there any longer, IMO. It's time to reshuffle and get back to 3 lines carrying the offensive load.
All good points

KIL
Eriksson-Soderberg-Smith
Marchand-Bergeron-Kelly
Paille-Campbell-Thornton

Even better, call up Spooner and bump down Kelly to the 4th.

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11-26-2013, 08:05 AM
  #125
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Again, prefacing this comment as I did in the GDT last night with the statement that Kelly absolutely blew his assignment on Crosby last night, which is not in dispute..... (and I underline this so it's made clear, heaven forbid I be accused of having 23 blinders or worse, being called 'obtuse' in the name of a healthy back and forth on a message board and not dragging down the quality of banter into the gutter )

.....now he's no longer above-average defensively?

In a situation where the Pens were essentially playing with a man advantage, you have all-world players like Malkin, Neal and Crosby on the ice, where that particular Bruin unit had been on the ice for over a minute, where Chara also watches a puck sail across the ice without so much as an effort for to get his stick on it.....

....and Kelly's the sole reason they went into OT?

Lulz.

Big picture here, people. I realize we love to blame one guy because it's easier than looking at the situation as a whole, but that's not really how the mechanics of a game scenario works.

It was a big error on his part. For sure. Face palm worthy.

It's also 100% predictable that his brainfart will bring out the knee-jerk reactions that came out in the GDT and are certain to continue today, because that's the easy thing to do

But again....the guy will do things like cover the defensive middle, giving those young wingers a chance to move around in the space created and score as well as they have to start the season, yet he won't get the credit from a majority of people who prefer to look at the end result as the sole definition of success. It's all "Soderberg and Smith" from predictably the people who don't want to give the Kelly the player the credit for whatever reason, despite the fact that evaluators like say, the head coach, has been effusive in his praise of the entire line as it contributes to the success.

Gets caught playing ****** defense in one game (against the most offensively gifted player in the league no less) and he's an albatross.

Keep on keepin' on. I can set my watch to it.
When the sole reason you're on the team is to be a defensive specialist and you fail, what exactly do you bring? Simple as that. I like the guy, and he's been a decent player, but he's very grossly overpaid right now, and the one area he's usually okay with, he's been off all year. You also want to make it sound like it was one blown assignment. It wasn't. It was three bad plays in a span of 30 seconds, and the end result was him leaving the best player in the game all alone at the goal mouth.

You can dismiss the argument and say it's knee jerk based off the end result last night, but it's not. I've been watching closely, and Kelly has been off all year long. I like him, but at this point there's no way around being honest. He's truly holding the rest of that line back. Bump him down to the 4th line and bring Spooner up. It's what's best for the team.

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