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Old
11-11-2013, 08:51 AM
  #726
Fitzy
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Good BBC article on MLS growth and prosperity... but its need for a higher salary cap to increase player and team quality.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24843600

Garber has been too cautious, too greedy. DP's are good but when the 4th highest paid player on our team makes 250k a year, there is no way to build a team with depth.

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11-14-2013, 04:06 PM
  #727
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What a tremendous game between #4 ranked Colombia and #5 ranked Belgium just now. Falcao is lethal. Colombia won 2-0 in Belgium.

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11-15-2013, 06:45 AM
  #728
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MLS will always be a feeder league for across the pond or a retirement home for past stars to come here.

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11-15-2013, 09:21 AM
  #729
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It will if we take that attitude.

Kind of hard to make a prediction about forever from a league that isn't 20 years old.

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11-15-2013, 10:08 AM
  #730
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No one from Europe that is in his prime worth a darn is coming here. The leagues are just way better and pay way more, not to mention the endorsements. US players that are any good will jump on a boat to cross the pond at a moments notice. Trust me, I know Cladio Reyna, played with him from Jr High, High School and thru private Cosmopolitan leagues and up, know the family, know what goes on inside US players head. A league that does not or can't let franchises spend whatever they want in fear of going bankrupt will never be successful.

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11-15-2013, 10:28 AM
  #731
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The league is technically very successful, as it is expanding and pulling in far more money than it is spending.

From a business standpoint, things couldn't be better. The fact that MLS doesn't have the world's best players is tertiary behind good fans and good arenas, to most people.



This doesn't look unsuccessful to me. If you'd asked me growing up if I would be able to go to a venue like this to watch an American soccer team, I would've never believed it.

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11-15-2013, 10:42 AM
  #732
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We will just to have to agree to disagree as I grew up with this, some of my best soccer memories came from having season tickets to the cosmos and going with my dad an mom to Giants stadium:


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11-15-2013, 10:45 AM
  #733
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I can't get emotionally invested in a team that plays 1000 miles away.

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11-15-2013, 10:53 AM
  #734
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Ok, not sure what that means.

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11-15-2013, 04:56 PM
  #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I can't get emotionally invested in a team that plays 1000 miles away.

If only more soccer fans in America had that opinion...

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Old
11-15-2013, 05:03 PM
  #736
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usa played like **** today. i hope kljestan finally played himself off the team. he is not a good player and literally does nothing well on the pitch.

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11-15-2013, 06:48 PM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I can't get emotionally invested in a team that plays 1000 miles away.
I can't get emotionally invested in an inferior product. Granted it is easier to tie yourself to a team / league that you can go see live but I honestly can't make myself watch MLS after watching Arsenal vs. Liverpool for example or just in geneal years of watching EPL.

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Old
11-16-2013, 07:59 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
I can't get emotionally invested in an inferior product. Granted it is easier to tie yourself to a team / league that you can go see live but I honestly can't make myself watch MLS after watching Arsenal vs. Liverpool for example or just in geneal years of watching EPL.
Its a difference of philosophy. I watch the NHL and NFL not because they are the best league but because they are here. If the KHL passed the NHL in quality would that become your top league to watch?

There was only one way this was gong to work. If Garber let the big MLS teams spend, 3or 4 teams would have all the good players and all the fans. You know, kind of like European leagues. MLS will never be able to create a Barcelona because 40% of Spain roots for Barca and their team receives massive government financial assistance every year. It's basically a subsidized supercorporation.

Edit: I don't mean to suggest that people shouldn't follow other leagues. That is their decision. I have mine, and am sort of tired of getting snobby looks when I wear a Dane Richards jersey somewhere.


Last edited by Fitzy: 11-16-2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old
11-16-2013, 10:55 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by kovazub94 View Post
I can't get emotionally invested in an inferior product. Granted it is easier to tie yourself to a team / league that you can go see live but I honestly can't make myself watch MLS after watching Arsenal vs. Liverpool for example or just in geneal years of watching EPL.
This^. Totally agree. I love soccer. Every year I try so hard to get into the Red bulls and I just get turned right off. If the KHL became a far better league than The NHL the quality would not suffer to much as the NHL would still be top 1 or 2 in the world. the MLS can even come close to saying that as there are at least 5 or 6 better leagues around the world.

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11-16-2013, 11:33 AM
  #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
This^. Totally agree. I love soccer. Every year I try so hard to get into the Red bulls and I just get turned right off. If the KHL became a far better league than The NHL the quality would not suffer to much as the NHL would still be top 1 or 2 in the world. the MLS can even come close to saying that as there are at least 5 or 6 better leagues around the world.
5 or 6 ?

Try 15 or 16 at least.

Every time I watch the MLS or the U.S. team I just don't understand why we still cannot play any sort of consistent organized soccer. We always look like a bunch of chickens running around not knowing what the hell is going on when we play a good team. Very poor technique, poor soccer sense. It's just sad. Just very poor everything. I guess it takes YEARS and years and YEARS to get that going but we are so hilariously overmatched on an international stage. I think it would be best for us to join Conmebol or merge both leagues for even if we miss the world cup for a few times it would force us to elevate our game. We are never going to compete with anyone by beating on Mexico or Panama or Jamaica. It's just not going to happen. We have composure I will give you that, a lot of teams have skill but don't have a good mentality. We may beat random x team every now and then but I have yet to see an amazing game played by the U.S. in a big tournament that didn't look like we were holding on for dear life against the big boys.

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11-16-2013, 11:54 AM
  #741
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RBNY's recent games against top European opposition

2-2 tie vs Lyon
1-2 loss vs Tottenham
1-1 tie vs Arsenal
1-0 win vs PSG
3-1 win vs Juventus
2-1 win vs Manchester City

3-1-2 record

USMNT recent games vs European national teams

0-0 tie vs Scotland
4-3 win vs Bosnia
4-3 win vs Germany
2-4 loss vs Belgium
2-2 tie vs Russia
5-1 win vs Scotland
1-0 win vs Italy

4-1-2 record


Sometimes the truth hurts??????????

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Old
11-16-2013, 12:03 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by Webhead View Post
5 or 6 ?

Try 15 or 16 at least.

Every time I watch the MLS or the U.S. team I just don't understand why we still cannot play any sort of consistent organized soccer. We always look like a bunch of chickens running around not knowing what the hell is going on when we play a good team. Very poor technique, poor soccer sense. It's just sad. Just very poor everything. I guess it takes YEARS and years and YEARS to get that going but we are so hilariously overmatched on an international stage. I think it would be best for us to join Conmebol or merge both leagues for even if we miss the world cup for a few times it would force us to elevate our game. We are never going to compete with anyone by beating on Mexico or Panama or Jamaica. It's just not going to happen. We have composure I will give you that, a lot of teams have skill but don't have a good mentality. We may beat random x team every now and then but I have yet to see an amazing game played by the U.S. in a big tournament that didn't look like we were holding on for dear life against the big boys.
I was trying to be nice. If I would have said that everyone would have told me I don't know what I am talking about. I totally agree with this also.

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Old
11-16-2013, 12:11 PM
  #743
bubba5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
RBNY's recent games against top European opposition

2-2 tie vs Lyon
1-2 loss vs Tottenham
1-1 tie vs Arsenal
1-0 win vs PSG
3-1 win vs Juventus
2-1 win vs Manchester City

3-1-2 record

USMNT recent games vs European national teams

0-0 tie vs Scotland
4-3 win vs Bosnia
4-3 win vs Germany
2-4 loss vs Belgium
2-2 tie vs Russia
5-1 win vs Scotland
1-0 win vs Italy

4-1-2 record


Sometimes the truth hurts??????????
Really!!! How much effort do you think those teams give against the red bulls. I mean common. Yes let play a big game in champions league or a league game or whatever at then let's get up for
The world famous Red bulls!!!! Lol. Those teams play constantly in Europe. And to think that when they come here to that States for some little exhibition game that non of those players want to play in except maybe the 2 nd and 3 rd team players is a little bit of a stretch. All those games are for is to provide extra revenue to the clubs. That's it.

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Old
11-16-2013, 12:15 PM
  #744
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All you have to do is look to the NYR's recent trip in Europe to see an analogous comparison. You're stretching and looking for excuses to fit your bias on this matter.

NYR won most of their games against teams considered to be much closer to NHL competition than MLS clubs are against the top teams in the world. The only game they lost was their 5th in 6 days of travel against Zug.

Whether or not you're willing to admit that MLS has an acceptable quality is irrelevant. Because the world has begun to see it. No, they aren't at a top European level yet, and perhaps they never will be. But its absurd to suggest that they are poor or have no soccer sense.

The Czech republic isn't full of snobs who ignore their domestic league in favor of the NHL. Only America has this major ego issue (And it is an ego issue) where fans only want to watch the top league in any sport. To follow this to a logical onclusion, you'd never watch junior or NCAA hockey because of the "inferior" product.

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11-16-2013, 01:08 PM
  #745
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All you have to do is look to the NYR's recent trip in Europe to see an analogous comparison. You're stretching and looking for excuses to fit your bias on this matter.

NYR won most of their games against teams considered to be much closer to NHL competition than MLS clubs are against the top teams in the world. The only game they lost was their 5th in 6 days of travel against Zug.

Whether or not you're willing to admit that MLS has an acceptable quality is irrelevant. Because the world has begun to see it. No, they aren't at a top European level yet, and perhaps they never will be. But its absurd to suggest that they are poor or have no soccer sense.

The Czech republic isn't full of snobs who ignore their domestic league in favor of the NHL. Only America has this major ego issue (And it is an ego issue) where fans only want to watch the top league in any sport. To follow this to a logical onclusion, you'd never watch junior or NCAA hockey because of the "inferior" product.
And no no one in the western world is talking about teams in the Czech rep. Hockey league Unless there is a hot prospect that will be in the NHL shortly or if the team they root for in the NHL has the players rights. I don't see anyone talking about how Sparta Prague is having another great season. But you do hear about people talking about Manchester United struggles. Bottom line is the most MLS games are unwatchable and will never be a top tier type of league until the spend money and bring in real talent and stop being a feeder league or a retirement community.

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Old
11-16-2013, 01:18 PM
  #746
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We can agree to disagree about the unwatchable part. I would like to see MLS lift the salary cap, but it will want to fully expand before that happens. Right now, the level of player is roughly equal to that of the English Championship, which has been exhibited by the fairly equitable exchange of players between the league retaining a similar form (Kei Kamara, others to the championship, Lloyd Sam, Bradley Wright-Phillips to MLS)

However, many thousands of people seem to think MLS is worth watching, when you consider the average attendance beats that of the top French league. http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/s...gues-worldwide

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Old
11-16-2013, 09:28 PM
  #747
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Rest assured that the best MLS team will take the plunge every year in the big boy league. The median MLS club has improve tremendously in recent years but they're still not good enough. With that being said, let's not think of success vs. European squads as the only measure of success. TV, tickets and attention have all been on the rise. I suppose, considering the hubris of most Americans, none of that matters if you're not the best in the world. You yanks are "exceptional" after all.

Fear not though, the USMNT will probably have a better world cup than England.

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11-17-2013, 12:27 AM
  #748
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I saw Belgium play Colombia the other day on a duel of Dark Horse WC contenders. Two teams which are so LOADED with offensive talent they could field 3 world class teams of their own. At least offensively. Yet a few years ago they were as far back internationally as we are right now. What was the difference? Talent obviously. But man coaching makes all the difference. Colombia for instance has always had talented players. But terrible management. They put this Pekerman guy in a year and a half ago and he has won 13 games, lost 3 and drawn 3. Scored 37 goals vs 11 against and made the world cup for that country for the first time in 16 years with most of the same players that couldn't get it done. While facing tough competition in SA WC qualifiers. While having friendlies against Brazil, Belgium and now Netherlands. And they are FRIGHTENINGLY GOOD now to be honest. And we went to Belgium and they embarrassed us. Yet I watched these two teams who were evenly matched play against each other yet the Colombian Squad's coach (an Argentine) took the Belgium coach to school and surgically broke their spirit in 15 minutes. I wish we had a coach like that. Because even if we don't have the talent that these teams do a good coach maximizes and sometimes masks that on a team. I never thought Germany had extraordinary players compared to other superpowers. I think they are the least talented of all the superpowers when you look at pure skill. Yet they are probably the best team and always have been 1, 2 or 3 in the world. And that is where good coaching and organization play into it. And their league is 2 teams deep. How does this happen? A part is the culture but it is also something else I can't quite put my finger on.

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11-17-2013, 01:32 AM
  #749
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I saw Belgium play Colombia the other day on a duel of Dark Horse WC contenders. Two teams which are so LOADED with offensive talent they could field 3 world class teams of their own. At least offensively. Yet a few years ago they were as far back internationally as we are right now. What was the difference? Talent obviously. But man coaching makes all the difference. Colombia for instance has always had talented players. But terrible management. They put this Pekerman guy in a year and a half ago and he has won 13 games, lost 3 and drawn 3. Scored 37 goals vs 11 against and made the world cup for that country for the first time in 16 years with most of the same players that couldn't get it done. While facing tough competition in SA WC qualifiers. While having friendlies against Brazil, Belgium and now Netherlands. And they are FRIGHTENINGLY GOOD now to be honest. And we went to Belgium and they embarrassed us. Yet I watched these two teams who were evenly matched play against each other yet the Colombian Squad's coach (an Argentine) took the Belgium coach to school and surgically broke their spirit in 15 minutes. I wish we had a coach like that. Because even if we don't have the talent that these teams do a good coach maximizes and sometimes masks that on a team. I never thought Germany had extraordinary players compared to other superpowers. I think they are the least talented of all the superpowers when you look at pure skill. Yet they are probably the best team and always have been 1, 2 or 3 in the world. And that is where good coaching and organization play into it. And their league is 2 teams deep. How does this happen? A part is the culture but it is also something else I can't quite put my finger on.
I disagree with all of the bolded. Klinsmann is more than a capable enough coach and has been an amazing fit for the US. Germany also has a bunch of extraordinary players, most of their roster is on top teams. They are definitely more talented than you're giving them credit for. You can make the argument (and I would), that it's the best league in Europe. The drop of between Bayern/Dortmund and the rest of the league is not as high as you're implying. There are plenty of teams that could finish at least midtable in the Premier League (Leverkusen, Montegladbach, Wolfsburgh, Schalke, Stuttgart).

I do think that modeling the US's soccer on Germany is the best idea, though.

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11-17-2013, 08:16 AM
  #750
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German has a lot of talent, their players just play like men and don't do a million step-overs/dive when they get touched and call it football.

I remember my freshman year the assistant soccer coach was German, he'd always tell us to "Get up, stop crying" or "Stop trying to curl the ball like a ninny, just hit it."

Kind of amusing, in retrospect, though we didn't find it funny at the time.

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