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When will we see Bergevin make a major move

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Old
11-16-2013, 03:32 PM
  #51
BLONG7
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Slats, you mean the guy who got a #1 dman for a cap dump? Boy I sure hope we never make a move like that!
Slats makes moves for the sake of making moves, every once in a while you get lucky...BTW, Helen Keller wouldn't work, she is not billingual...

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11-16-2013, 03:33 PM
  #52
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Yes, he should be active, like Holmgren... and Slats, GM's like that who have won multiple Cups in the last few years...
The most recent cup winners are Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, and Pittsburgh. All of them made major moves prior to winning the cup.

Chicago acquired Hossa;
Los Angeles acquired Penner, Carter, and Richards;
Boston acquired Peverley, Kaberle, Seguin;
Pittsburgh acquired Guerin and Kunitz;

And that's just off memory, there's probably more. The point is, every single recent cup winner, no exceptions, had a pro-active GM. I bet the same applies to the Stanley Cup finalists, which doubles the sample size. A proactive GM is a requirement to a Stanley Cup.

Timmins is a great scout, but you can't win a cup by just giving Timmins 7 draft picks every year and hoping for the best. The good drafting has to be complemented by good signings and good trades. The idea of "building a winner through the draft" is something only ignorant sheep could buy into as a viable strategy in and of itself.

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11-16-2013, 03:35 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The most recent cup winners are Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, and Pittsburgh. All of them made major moves prior to winning the cup.

Chicago acquired Hossa;
Los Angeles acquired Penner, Carter, and Richards;
Boston acquired Peverley, Kaberle, Seguin;
Pittsburgh acquired Guerin and Kunitz;

And that's just off memory, there's probably more.

Timmins is a great scout, but you can't win a cup by just giving Timmins 7 draft picks every year and hoping for the best. The good drafting has to be complemented by good signings and good trades.
This is very true, but check those teams and their drafts...everyone knows you build through the draft, and compliment with trades/ufa's...Habs fans are having a tough time being patient...I know I am also...

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11-16-2013, 03:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
It's going to happen in about a month once Diaz Markov and Gionta are signed.

Dudley's going to walk into Bergevin''s office admitting he had an Excel cap spreadsheet glitch and there is actually negative 6 dollars left to sign Subban.
But Bergevin is not a numbers guy

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11-16-2013, 03:38 PM
  #55
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Hasn't had a healthy line-up long enough to see where the team actually sits but they're most likely a playoff bubble team that's rebuilding with an eye to be a contender in 2-3 years

There's no need to panic and make a major move especially with picks and prospects and outside of our core the rest aren't really valuable enough to get us a return that will put us over the top

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11-16-2013, 03:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
This is very true, but check those teams and their drafts...everyone knows you build through the draft, and compliment with trades/ufa's...Habs fans are having a tough time being patient...I know I am also...
Patience? Habs fans have been waiting for 20 years.

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Originally Posted by Spearmint Rhino View Post
Hasn't had a healthy line-up long enough to see where the team actually sits but they're most likely a playoff bubble team that's rebuilding with an eye to be a contender in 2-3 years
It's a 23 man roster, nobody ever gets a perfectly healthy team for long.

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11-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #57
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A lot of overreaction to a minor trade. Peter Holland would not even be a roster player on this team. Some of you like to jump down bergevins throat because he standing pat, I for one do not mind it. If he would fire therrien it wouldn't bother me and if he didn't it wouldn't bother me.

They finally have a full roster which they haven't had in over a year, and let them play a couple of games together before throwing in the towel.

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11-16-2013, 03:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
A lot of overreaction to a minor trade. Peter Holland would not even be a roster player on this team. Some of you like to jump down bergevins throat because he standing pat, I for one do not mind it. If he would fire therrien it wouldn't bother me and if he didn't it wouldn't bother me.

They finally have a full roster which they haven't had in over a year, and let them play a couple of games together before throwing in the towel.
I didn't make this thread because of the Peter Holland trade. You're mistaking this thread with the out of town thread

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11-16-2013, 03:59 PM
  #59
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Honestly I just wish Bergevin had some balls. Although it might be a good thing since the only risks he's really taken is Desharnais signing, Subban bridge contract and Emelin signing. 0/2 so far with Emelin undecided.

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11-16-2013, 04:00 PM
  #60
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Honestly when that guy was hired I was really expecting some changes.. so far...hmmm nada

I remember this summer at the draft I was listening to Dany Dubé on the radio on draft week/day and he was saying something like ''the Canadiens organisation is everywhere...trying to make moves''.

On draft day just before the draft begins he was saying ''Marc Bergevin is really agressive in the negociations, he really wanna make changes with this team, change the dynamic...etc...I feel like a big trade is coming...''

We all know the deal was ''done'' to pick in the top10, the offer was some habs players, picks and prospects. Finally that team refused to do it at the last minute, rumored to be Vancouver...I guess Bergevin wanted to pick Samuel Morin or Bo Horvat...whatever. I was pissed but I was tellin myself ''Damm at least Bergevin tried everything, that's a good sign...we will see changes sooner than later in the years to come''.

So... I cant believe he has changed his mind man ! He has to move ! They will make changes in the years to come... who will leave... I dont know but I cant wait to see it... I want changes asap, imo there's no untouchable besides Subban, Price and Galchenyuk.

All the rest...can go for the good price off course, I would put Gallagher in the untouchable too but I mean if we receive an offer we just can't refuse I would think about it, even if I'd like to keep him.

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11-16-2013, 04:00 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by JayKing View Post
Seeing how most of our divisional rivals have made some pretty major moves this offseason and during this season, I'm wondering when we will get to see Bergevin make a trade. I'm not saying he has to do it, but I'm wondering when the time will come. I feel like the Habs core has been pretty much the same over the last few years. With that said, I know that most of our veterans don't have much value or are soon to be UFAs, but with the rumors of Diaz close to re-signing, Markov wanting a new deal and Emelin being re-signed for 4 years, Briere and other contracts, it feels like there won't be much change for another 1-2 seasons.
I hope never. We usually lose when we do make moves. I'd rather develop youth - that's safer and doesn't cost as much. Of course, if we get a deal you can't refuse from a desperate GM then by all means do it. There are a few GMs out there who are not the sharpest knives in the drawer that we might be able to take advantage of. Of course, I'm sure many hockey fans think our team is one you can take advantage of.

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:01 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The most recent cup winners are Chicago, Los Angeles, Boston, and Pittsburgh. All of them made major moves prior to winning the cup.

Chicago acquired Hossa;
Los Angeles acquired Penner, Carter, and Richards;
Boston acquired Peverley, Kaberle, Seguin;
Pittsburgh acquired Guerin and Kunitz;

And that's just off memory, there's probably more. The point is, every single recent cup winner, no exceptions, had a pro-active GM. I bet the same applies to the Stanley Cup finalists, which doubles the sample size. A proactive GM is a requirement to a Stanley Cup.

Timmins is a great scout, but you can't win a cup by just giving Timmins 7 draft picks every year and hoping for the best. The good drafting has to be complemented by good signings and good trades. The idea of "building a winner through the draft" is something only ignorant sheep could buy into as a viable strategy in and of itself.
You're right. But it still has to make sense. Big trades are exciting, but they only improve the team when the missing piece can't be found internally. What are the Habs missing pieces? Right now, one or two bigger, quicker defencemen and another 1st or 2nd-line winger. Last season we scored a ton of goals and finished near the top; this season the goals aren't coming and we've sunk to bubble team status.

The D might solve itself with time. The potential of the D in Hamilton -- Tinordi, Bealieu, Nygren and Pateryn -- could be a big improvement over half the Habs' current Dmen. It might not be worth pursuing a Dman from outside when what we need might already be in the organization, a season or two away.

The forward situation is trickier. That's where Bergevin should be looking to fill a hole we can't fill internally. We're down to 1.5 productive lines, maybe two when Pacioretty warms up, but we're not a consistent scoring threat. Our forward lines lack size and finishers and nobody in Hamilton is remotely close to becoming an impact forward in Montreal. Our rookies will improve, but as they do our vets will disappear or diminish. There doesn't appear to be a net gain in offensive production as veteran forwards are phased out and young forwards are phased in. We're missing a real scoring threat, and that's where Bergevin might be looking to trade or buy, because there's no other way to get a player like that.

How much do we pay? Forget scraps and picks -- players like Desharnais might be part of a package, but no team deals a strong forward unless they get someone strong in return. It would require trading away a player we'll hate to lose. You want a big trade? Expect it to hurt.

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:08 PM
  #63
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Ironically enough, Rick Dudley is best known as guy who how's for a complete overhaul and high turn over from the original team. Knowing this, if have expected a large number of trades after the first year as it takes some time to know what you have. Maybe our great year is screwing their view.

At this point it feels like they'll never make a trade which probably means one is imminent

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:18 PM
  #64
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You really want Cole in the lineup right now?

1g 5a in 19 games for Dallas.
He used that money on Briere so at the end of the day we still have an overpaid veteran taking cap space and ice time. Now hes handcuffed because he dont have any cap space.

If MB is really about the draft he would have traded Ryder and he would move Gionta this year. People saying its the same old as Gainey are right. Get some vets, sneak into the playoffs.

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11-16-2013, 04:35 PM
  #65
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I think patience is key, you gotta wait for the good trade, and believe me it will come. Trade motivated by kneejerk reactions to short term insuccess rarely end up good for the team that made it.

I don't know if Bergevin will be able to recognize the good trade if it comes but his patience is an encouraging sign. His signings aren't though....

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:37 PM
  #66
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If you're talking about the Leafs, Peter Holland and David Bolland are not major moves. David Clarkson is not a major move. They are desperate moves. The leafs have a mandate to win now. They don't rebuild. Those moves all involved throwing away high picks/prospects for players that can play now.

They missed the playoffs for 9 years and got absolutely embarassed in round one last year. They need to win now.

Geoff Molson isn't MLSE. He preaches patience. Even with the pick that got us Galchenyuk, that mandate wasn't 'trade it away for someone who can play now' ala Phil Kessel.
I completely agree with this.

If you look back at a lot of big signings and trades, they end up being disasters.

I'm glad we have a GM whose patient and I think he's smart enough to know when we're close to being contenders and then he'll make the moves to put us over the top.

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11-16-2013, 04:56 PM
  #67
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I think MB is kind of chicken to make a real move now because unless it turns out to be an immediate gem with immediate positive impact, he will be chastised by the top management and also by the media for making a bad move. If he trades a star and it doesn't pan out, he gets jumped on. If he does nothing, he still gets pummeled.

Tough job, he needs a crystal ball.

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11-16-2013, 05:06 PM
  #68
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Bergevin will feel Montreal are contenders when the team will similar to the Hawks. He was assistant-GM for the hawks... who won two cups. It's obvious that he will do everything he can to get us a team similar to theirs.

I have a feeling that when Timmins drafted McCarron, it wasn't to draft a Lucic, but actually a possible Bryan Bickell.

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11-16-2013, 05:16 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by yoyo999 View Post
If you're talking about the Leafs, Peter Holland and David Bolland are not major moves. David Clarkson is not a major move. They are desperate moves. The leafs have a mandate to win now. They don't rebuild. Those moves all involved throwing away high picks/prospects for players that can play now.

They missed the playoffs for 9 years and got absolutely embarassed in round one last year. They need to win now.

Geoff Molson isn't MLSE. He preaches patience. Even with the pick that got us Galchenyuk, that mandate wasn't 'trade it away for someone who can play now' ala Phil Kessel.
Sorry, I don't agree at all with the bolded part ... see post #828 in "The Out of Town Thread - LXXI - Everyone is better than us... except the Oilers!" I don't want to add a duplicate here.

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11-17-2013, 10:36 AM
  #70
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Not saying Bergevin needs to make a major move or even a minor one.

I think he needs to do something in general to get life back into the team.

The team is flat right now. Scoring is an issue and we lack a lot of finish at this time.

For those wanting him to fire Therrien, it wont happen. The guy coached us to NE division champs and is presently holding us in a playoff spot with key injuries to players.

I don't know if Therrien is losing the players or whats going on but.... it is hurting the fans and the team if they aren't into Therrien anymore or something.

"If" a move is needed to get this teaming going, I say find a team need and get it and bring some excitement into the locker room or something.

Just the way the team is right now, low scoring, no finish, struggles on the boards. Something needs to refresh the guys and get them motivated.

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11-17-2013, 11:06 AM
  #71
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Something happens before the end of the month...big or small, not sure, but a .500 team at the quarter point, and we are not scoring outside of the EGG line...there are teams that will make moves, Philly, Buff, the Oilers etc.

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11-17-2013, 11:14 AM
  #72
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Not sure if I want him making any major moves to tell you the truth.

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11-17-2013, 11:15 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
This is very true, but check those teams and their drafts...everyone knows you build through the draft, and compliment with trades/ufa's...Habs fans are having a tough time being patient...I know I am also...
The Habs are not following that strategy though.

We won't build **** through the draft when we keep drafting in the bottom 15.

Bergevin claims you don't build with UFAs yet instead of trading vets for picks, he re-signs them, and gives big money to flavours of the week like Briere.

The guy isn't even following his own advice.

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Old
11-17-2013, 11:21 AM
  #74
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#FireTherrien will be his major move.

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Old
11-17-2013, 11:22 AM
  #75
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Any of those I'd consider as a trade bait if we can get a solif top 6 winger:

Tinordi
Beaulieu
Gionta
Desharnais
Plekanec
Bourque
Briere
Moen
Leblanc
Diaz
Bouillon
Gorges

Basically everyone except Price, Subban, Markov, Emelin and the kids.

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