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Old
11-16-2013, 03:37 PM
  #751
The Last Dynasty
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how much snow fell? I got 15cm in St. Albert

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Old
11-16-2013, 03:41 PM
  #752
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I'd personally like to thank the ****ing moron in the flat deck one ton that was out of control fish tailing and went speeding past me on the inside lane on the Henday this morning nearly running me off the road.

****er.

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Old
11-16-2013, 03:45 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Theres an average of less than 10 days a year where the roads are this bad. I love snow days. Fortunately I have a job where I can take em.

The point that gets lost is that last night the driving conditions were treacherous for EVERYONE. Even people with snowtires were slowing down and not having much luck either.



Snow tires more needed for people that have to drive in these conditions or have to drive in out of town regions. For in city driving not really needed. People drove for generations here without any need of snowtires.

Snow tires don't keep you safe here, only driving habits do. Worst thing I was worried about today or last night was somebody rear ending me or running a light. AS a rule I slow down well before a red light and allow drivers behind me to note slow down. Sometimes I even stop farther from light if nobody is around then when someone approaches from rear I gradually approach intersection. I thus allow buffers for myself and drivers behind me. I'm even attentive enough to detect when someone behind is not paying attention to stopping. I only mention this stuff because people read it and good habits are good to spread.

That said if I was living in BC, Quebec, Ontario, Atlantic canada, I would be using snowtires. But in prairie city, not really so needed.
You are dead wrong. Vehicles and tire technology has changed dramatically in 20 years. Vehicles are lighter and tires are wider, with compounds that are not conducive to our winter weather conditions.

Drive any vehicle with and without winter tires, control and braking are vastly improved.

Naturally nothing helps idiot drivers.

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Old
11-16-2013, 03:46 PM
  #754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fysloc View Post
Do sandbags for RWD vehicles do anything or not advised?

Got ice tires, but don't know if I should be using sandbags for additional weight.
Adding the weight over the drive axle is a good thing, it increases ground pressure thus stopping and starting traction.

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Old
11-16-2013, 03:47 PM
  #755
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took me 1.5 hours to do the shovelling.
was going to run errands today, but decided against it. will wait for the plows to get out there and things to settle down.

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Old
11-16-2013, 03:48 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Gord View Post
took me 1.5 hours to do the shovelling.
was going to run errands today, but decided against it. will wait for the plows to get out there and things to settle down.
I got a snowplow for my birthday. And my wife likes using it!

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Old
11-16-2013, 03:51 PM
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer8 View Post
I got a snowplow for my birthday. And my wife likes using it!
wtg. we bow before you!


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Old
11-16-2013, 03:54 PM
  #758
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Drive safe everybody!

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:00 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer8 View Post
You are dead wrong. Vehicles and tire technology has changed dramatically in 20 years. Vehicles are lighter and tires are wider, with compounds that are not conducive to our winter weather conditions.

Drive any vehicle with and without winter tires, control and braking are vastly improved.

Naturally nothing helps idiot drivers.
All seasons are substantially better than the crap people would be driving on 30 or 40 yrs ago. Any older driver will tell you this.

There is no dead wrong in this until facts are substantiated conclusively. Remember all those claims that ABS, antilock breaking etc was going to result in more control, less accidents? Wrong. More accidents, more serious accidents, and less driver feel and control. I trust myself more than technology. Given a choice I would never habe ABS, traction control, etc.

I'm aware of all the tech, all the stats, all the intangibles. I don't make commentary without reviewing a topic thoroughly.

Edmonton road conditions are largely un challenging and as stated very few days in a year where I even feel as if I might want different rubber. This is a prairie city, drivng in this city is plain simple even today, even yesterday, I have no trouble at all, never go off road, never lose control, never get stuck. Because I'm thinking about what I'm doing at all times.

Its an individual choice. My choice has been to be a safe driver, defensive driver, and 30yrs accident free with a ton of driving in there. All on all season radials. I've had vehicles (rentals) with snow tires and tbh I don't much like it. Changes up the feel. I prefer to feel how slippery road conditions are. different rubber kind of disguises that imo. Makes for some dangerous false sense of security and with the only usual result starting to drive faster when one shouldn't. The trouble with snow tires is they handle well in MOST situations. But when you hit a patch where they don't handle you can be in a lot of trouble because of driving faster.

I also worry about something with winter tires that most people don't worry about at all. I worry about whats coming up behind me and going to crash into me if my stopping IS subatantially different than the vehicles behind me. I just find regular all seasons makes me drive more carefully and proactively.

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:04 PM
  #760
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I know the topic well, trust me. Your logic is flawed.

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:49 PM
  #761
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The worst winter tire is a drastic upgrade over the best all season in winter conditions. There's really no comparison, the compounds in an all-season tire change once temperatures dip under -7 and because very hard causing you to slide. But if you're careful you can still get around okay, it's just safer and easier with winters. I did okay with my all seasons today but I was wishing my Blizzaks were on the entire time.

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:51 PM
  #762
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That shoveling though...

Hopefully everyone stays safe today

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:52 PM
  #763
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Slow down when you go past tow trucks on the road guys and gals!

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Old
11-16-2013, 04:54 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SephF View Post
The worst winter tire is a drastic upgrade over the best all season in winter conditions. There's really no comparison, the compounds in an all-season tire change once temperatures dip under -7 and because very hard causing you to slide. But if you're careful you can still get around okay, it's just safer and easier with winters. I did okay with my all seasons today but I was wishing my Blizzaks were on the entire time.
This x100.

Say what you want about defensive driving, blah but equal drivers, winter tires are preferred in winter conditions over all seasons.

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Old
11-16-2013, 05:00 PM
  #765
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Are we really debating the worth of snow tires?

Snow tires are like Wayne Gretzky.

All-season radials are Keith Gretzky.

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Old
11-16-2013, 05:19 PM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
I just find regular all seasons makes me drive more carefully and proactively.
Probably because you're sliding all over the place.

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Old
11-16-2013, 05:54 PM
  #767
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Time for the annual winter tire argument with replacement I see.

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Old
11-16-2013, 05:58 PM
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
Time for the annual winter tire argument with replacement I see.
Was not aware this was a 'thing' on HF but it makes my day. What a fantastic comment (no sarcasm).

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Old
11-16-2013, 06:00 PM
  #769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer8 View Post
I know the topic well, trust me. Your logic is flawed.
Depends what one is saying. If one likes performance in these conditions its a no brainer. If starting and accelerating under these conditions is important to you then yeah, snow tires is your thing.

The reality is for most people snow tires just facilitates higher speed than advisable, and worse habits with poor road conditions. I see people doing this all the time. Because they have snow tires they treat driving in these conditions like a game out there because they figure they have magic tires that can handle anything nature throws at em. Such drivers are oft surprised when facing situations where suddenly those tires aren't performing due to temp, gradient, particular surface, etc. Fact of the matter is you don't want to be hitting glare ice at a considerable rate of speed whatever you're using. Slower to a degree is almost always safer.

If one is talking pure safety I'm safer using all seasons. I've tried winter tires. I don't like it because I feel it potentially leads to bad habits in adverse conditions.

If people drive the same ambient speeds with or without snow tires then snow tires makes it safer. But people generally don't. The people with all seasons arguably drive more carefully, slower, take a longer time to get somewhere, and don't treat these conditions as a race to get somewhere.

Lets look at last night. With snow tires there are areas of freeway where one could drive up to 100K. But also stretches where it would be absolutely treacherous to do so. This creates a range of error going across varying terrain that can be unpredictable. I'd be doing a lower speed to begin with and thus less deviation in speed through good and bad sections.

You can take this any way you like, but until the facts are properly substantiated with several cross replicated studies in different jurisdictions the jury is still out on which makes for safer driving.

With all that said I've had this discussion with several people involved in the tire industry some who agree, some who disagree.

But its not just as simple as stopping distances. Thats a gross simplification they use to sell these tires.

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Old
11-16-2013, 06:02 PM
  #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchslap View Post
Time for the annual winter tire argument with replacement I see.
Its like Christmas tradition, haha.

Just trying to help people save their time and money. Also to reinforce safe driving. All seasons is not for everybody. But skilled drivers can do just as well with very little difference. That said if its my son or daughter I'm not saying this. Which is fair enough.

For inexperienced drivers snow tires are better I guess.

In anycase its just a discussion, no ill will or anything and just putting different information out there.

If anything all the advertising that tells me I'm irresponsible, terrible, and harm children and families if I don't have snowtires kind of offends me. So theres a bit of reaction with the mercantile approach to selling these tires. The product is better than the way its sold lol.
I don't respond well to being guilted into purchasing something I feel isn't needed.


Last edited by Replacement: 11-16-2013 at 06:10 PM.
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Old
11-16-2013, 06:04 PM
  #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKD View Post
Probably because you're sliding all over the place.
lol, never.

Why would I be?

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Old
11-16-2013, 06:10 PM
  #772
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You are equating 30 years experience of driving as giving you the expertise to discuss winter tires.
That's like me saying I am a plumbing expert because I use the toilet several times per day.

Sorry Replacement but you are incorrect and your logic is seriously flawed. I am in the tire industry and have been for 35 years which has included drive testing winter tires.

Anyway, HNIC is starting, and the games are starting! (Buffalo/Toronto for starters!)

I will be safe and sound with my winter tires on my entire families vehicles and be on the look out for you driving with your flashers on because your tires are unable to cope with deep snow, ice and making potentially rapid steering corrections or a rapid stop. :-) (all said in good fun)

Go Oilers

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Old
11-16-2013, 06:18 PM
  #773
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Lowe's probably out drifting downtown right now! ****er.

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Old
11-16-2013, 06:21 PM
  #774
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer8 View Post
You are equating 30 years experience of driving as giving you the expertise to discuss winter tires.
That's like me saying I am a plumbing expert because I use the toilet several times per day.

Sorry Replacement but you are incorrect and your logic is seriously flawed. I am in the tire industry and have been for 35 years which has included drive testing winter tires.

Anyway, HNIC is starting, and the games are starting! (Buffalo/Toronto for starters!)

I will be safe and sound with my winter tires on my entire families vehicles and be on the look out for you driving with your flashers on because your tires are unable to cope with deep snow, ice and making potentially rapid steering corrections or a rapid stop. :-) (all said in good fun)

Go Oilers
heh, I suspected you were in the tire industry, just a feeling I got from having these discussions before. The bolded is of course a good point.

But again its all in fun. I just enjoy the discussion and thanks for engaging civilly. I find it a very interesting topic. I have huge interest in marketing approaches for some reason but from a consume less perspective if that makes any sense. I'm a devout nologo kind of guy.

As a consumer I'm told I now need snow tires, ABS. antilock breaks, 4wheel drive, traction control, home security, life insurance, work insurance, death insurance, medical insurance, GPS, smart phones, tech gadgets, and a whole array of "don't leave home without it" things that I never really needed before. Some of this is about getting the consumer to just consume more. People get to decide which posited needs aren't for them. Because its definitely a growth industry to tell people they need everything.

ps I find this conversation much more enjoyable then talking about the team or writing reports.

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Old
11-16-2013, 07:31 PM
  #775
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Have an S5 with Quattro and a quartet of all seasons and had no problems on the roads today. For highway driving I'd probably throw on some winters but really, I don't need them.

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