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Old
11-17-2013, 10:58 AM
  #76
ArGarBarGar
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
So that means we can do whatever we want?

Better treat them right, or you can kiss them goodbye as soon as they hit UFA. And kiss those "hometown discounts" goodbye too.
I'll get worried once we see an example of that happening. For now it is just speculation.

And no, I'm not saying they should do whatever they want. I'm just pointing out free agents are different than prospects.

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11-17-2013, 11:07 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
When it comes to prospects, they're probably looking at Nyquist and praying they don't get drafted by this organization, since you can't play full time until you're 25.
1/4 of our roster is under 25.

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11-17-2013, 11:08 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
I'll get worried once we see an example of that happening. For now it is just speculation.

And no, I'm not saying they should do whatever they want. I'm just pointing out free agents are different than prospects.
Will be very interesting to see what happens when Tatar and Nyquist hit their UFA years.

For Nyquist not to hold any sort of a grudge in negotiations, he'd have to be some sort of a hybrid between Mother Teresa and Gandhi.

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11-17-2013, 11:12 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Will be very interesting to see what happens when Tatar and Nyquist hit their UFA years.

For Nyquist not to hold any sort of a grudge in negotiations, he'd have to be some sort of a hybrid between Mother Teresa and Gandhi.
Too bad Mantha is losing his waiver eligibility then and would be the replacement, if Nyquist bolts out.

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11-17-2013, 11:15 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
So that means we can do whatever we want?

Better treat them right, or you can kiss them goodbye as soon as they hit UFA. And kiss those "hometown discounts" goodbye too.
I'm not sure hometown discounts have existed for awhile. Z and Franzen's cap hits are low because of term. Kindl and Smith seemed to get pretty fair deals. Kronwall might have left some money on the table though I'm not sure how much. Howard's deal is fair.

Rather than looking for a hometown discount, I think the best bet is looking to make deals similar to Kronwall's last one - over pay early in the hope you get to underpay late.

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11-17-2013, 11:16 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Too bad Mantha is losing his waiver eligibility then and would be the replacement, if Nyquist bolts out.
OR we could have both I think that's how we used to build good teams.

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11-17-2013, 11:18 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by TCNorthstars View Post
1/4 of our roster is under 25.
Good point. I guess you have nothing to worry about unless you put up a whole bunch of points in the AHL.

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11-17-2013, 11:23 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm not sure hometown discounts have existed for awhile. Z and Franzen's cap hits are low because of term. Kindl and Smith seemed to get pretty fair deals. Kronwall might have left some money on the table though I'm not sure how much. Howard's deal is fair.

Rather than looking for a hometown discount, I think the best bet is looking to make deals similar to Kronwall's last one - over pay early in the hope you get to underpay late.
Don't disagree with anything you said, and definitely think they should strive to make the deals you suggested. The Filppula, Ericsson, Kronwall deals all were great deals.

My point was just that I believe that treating your guys fairly would bode well for negotiations. If I believe I've been treated well, I don't feel too bad about leaving a little money on the table for a "hometown deal" even if I know I could get more elsewhere. It has to be reciprocal though. If I feel like the Red Wings were unfair with my development, or don't care about me, I'm going to go do what's best for me.

Judy an idea though. Could be a false assumption to work under with the greed out there.

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11-17-2013, 11:34 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Don't disagree with anything you said, and definitely think they should strive to make the deals you suggested. The Filppula, Ericsson, Kronwall deals all were great deals.

My point was just that I believe that treating your guys fairly would bode well for negotiations. If I believe I've been treated well, I don't feel too bad about leaving a little money on the table for a "hometown deal" even if I know I could get more elsewhere. It has to be reciprocal though.

Judy an idea though. Could be a false assumption to work under with the greed out there.
It's never a bad idea to treat your guys well. And I'm sure guys leave some money on the table every year they hit the market. If a player is decent at all, you almost always hear about some team willing to throw crazy money at him (like Florida when they signed Upshall, Jovo, Fleischmann...).

I think that's why these guys have agents, though - to keep them from going too much off of emotion. I bet Tatar will have all sorts of comparisons pulled up by his agent, and they'll have an idea of what they think they can get and then compare it to what the Wings offer.

This is where I think the Brunner thing went off the rails. It seems their expectations were way off what the market (and Holland) was willing to pay.

Anyway, a bit off track here. I agree entirely about treating guys well, and I'm sure it helps - if you treat a guy badly, he's not going to want to stick around regardless.

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11-17-2013, 12:27 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm not sure hometown discounts have existed for awhile. Z and Franzen's cap hits are low because of term. Kindl and Smith seemed to get pretty fair deals. Kronwall might have left some money on the table though I'm not sure how much. Howard's deal is fair.

Rather than looking for a hometown discount, I think the best bet is looking to make deals similar to Kronwall's last one - over pay early in the hope you get to underpay late.

Datsyuk at 6.7 or 7.5 is pretty damn good.

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Old
11-17-2013, 01:30 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
I'll get worried once we see an example of that happening. For now it is just speculation.

And no, I'm not saying they should do whatever they want. I'm just pointing out free agents are different than prospects.
Is it?

Jonathan Ericsson may very well have been the first of more to come. He was 25 when he finally got called up for full-time duty after putting in 175+ AHL games. And what happened when he was up for a new contract? He didn't cut the team much slack. In fact, his cap hit was higher than Kronwall's at the time. He ends up signing for over $3M when Holland was hoping to sign him to a contract "in the 2 million range."

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11-17-2013, 01:31 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Is it?

Jonathan Ericsson may very well have been the first of more to come. He was 25 when he finally got called up for full-time duty after putting in 175+ AHL games. And what happened when he was up for a new contract? He didn't cut the team much slack. In fact, his cap hit was higher than Kronwall's at the time. He ends up signing for over $3M when Holland was hoping to sign him to a contract "in the 2 million range."
He signed, didn't he?

The post I responded to implied we would have to "kiss them goodbye" once they hit UFA based on how they were treated here.

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11-17-2013, 01:40 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
He signed, didn't he?

The post I responded to implied we would have to "kiss them goodbye" once they hit UFA based on how they were treated here.
Should have said OR I'm my post. But my point was these guys are either going to leave, or ask for a lot of money. Point remains the same, and Ericsson is a good example of this.

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11-17-2013, 01:44 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
He signed, didn't he?

The post I responded to implied we would have to "kiss them goodbye" once they hit UFA based on how they were treated here.
Ah, sorry. I thought the implication was that they wouldn't cut the Wings any slack in negotiations by giving them any semblance of a hometown discount.

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11-17-2013, 01:49 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Should have said OR I'm my post. But my point was these guys are either going to leave, or ask for a lot of money. Point remains the same, and Ericsson is a good example of this.
Tatar was publicly pissed about spending his 4th year in the AHL and being demoted after giving a solid showing in the NHL last year. Then he gets press-boxed to start the season. I can't imagine he'll forget that when he hits the negotiating table this spring/summer.

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11-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Should have said OR I'm my post. But my point was these guys are either going to leave, or ask for a lot of money. Point remains the same, and Ericsson is a good example of this.
The implications of your statement change drastically when you include a scenario that could be brought on by a multitude of factors (player thinking he earned more, tough agent, grudge, etc), and happens to every team in the NHL.

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11-17-2013, 01:58 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Tatar was publicly pissed about spending his 4th year in the AHL
No he wasn't. Don't put 2013 summer comments to 2012 summer. He wasn't even NHL ready then. During the lockout he started to look possibly ready.

People are trying to change history all the time in here. Should have done this and that in those circumstances, that changed afterwards.

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11-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #93
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Should we just call up the entire Grand Rapid's roster to make everyone in this thread happy

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11-17-2013, 02:02 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
At least Daniel "the Maniel" DeKeyser got another point.
Not diggin that nickname but at least we can focus on two positives:
  1. Dekeyser is becoming a solid offensive contirbutor. 8 points in his last 11 games and on pace to put up 8 goals and 35 points.
  2. The 2nd line is also becoming a factor.

Now if only Holland could get rid of those Cleary and Samuelsson contracts and put Nyquist and Jurco on the squad. We'd have three really good lines.

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11-17-2013, 03:15 PM
  #95
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We have prospects that are better than Sammy or Cleary?!

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11-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
No he wasn't. Don't put 2013 summer comments to 2012 summer. He wasn't even NHL ready then. During the lockout he started to look possibly ready.

People are trying to change history all the time in here. Should have done this and that in those circumstances, that changed afterwards.
So you think he's no longer pissed when he was demoted after a great NHL run showing he was clearly NHL-ready and then press-boxed in the early-going? Ok, Henkka.

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11-17-2013, 03:44 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Harnessed in Slums View Post
Not diggin that nickname but at least we can focus on two positives:
  1. Dekeyser is becoming a solid offensive contirbutor. 8 points in his last 11 games and on pace to put up 8 goals and 35 points.
  2. The 2nd line is also becoming a factor.

Now if only Holland could get rid of those Cleary and Samuelsson contracts and put Nyquist and Jurco on the squad. We'd have three really good lines.
Who else would we dump to add Jurco? Nyquist/Weiss/Alfie in for Cleary/Sammy/Glendening.

Drop Miller or Abby?

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Old
11-17-2013, 03:45 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
So you think he's no longer pissed when he was demoted after a great NHL run showing he was clearly NHL-ready and then press-boxed in the early-going? Ok, Henkka.
When it's time for him to negotiate his new contract I think his present situation at that time will be a much larger factor than past circumstances...
Does he like his role on the team?
Is he happy with his ice time?
Is he optimistic about the team's future?
If all these things are answered favorably I think all in the past is water under the bridge for the kid; what sort of punk would try to screw the team if he's happy with the way things are currently going? Hopefully Tomas has a bigger role going forward, stays on the ice, contributes to team success and shrugs off any grudge he may have in the past for paying (possibly over-paying) his dues.

Saying all that, Nyquist in GR is a travesty, but he had a role on the team in the playoffs, hopefully understands the circumstances keeping him down (the mismanagement if you will) and knows he is an important part of the team in the not so distant future. Helm was only a playoff call up for a few years; it sucks, but he doesn't seem to have a vendetta because of it.

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11-17-2013, 03:55 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by wingsfan24 View Post
Datsyuk at 6.7 or 7.5 is pretty damn good.
$6.7 looked fantastic in hindsight. A lot of people hated that number when it was first announced, as it was before the Briere/Drury/Gomez numbers that soon followed. And $7.5 sounds like what we should expect to pay a guy like Datsyuk (35 yrs old, productive, etc.). I'm fine with it because it's Dats, but I don't think it's a big discount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
So you think he's no longer pissed when he was demoted after a great NHL run showing he was clearly NHL-ready and then press-boxed in the early-going? Ok, Henkka.
He may have been upset this year, but he handled it a helluva lot better than when he got sent back to GR and then his play slipped until the playoffs.

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11-17-2013, 04:55 PM
  #100
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We're still 4th in the conference. It's getting ridiculous but a couple wins in a row and we could be first in the conference. Season isn't even close to being over. The offense is finally scoring goals, Howard will turn it around soon, he always does.

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