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UFC 167 GSP vs. Hendricks (UPD Post 774: GSP announces semi-retirement/title forfeit)

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11-17-2013, 01:14 PM
  #551
Frankenheimer
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I think if GSP's mental issues settle down and he's able to concentrate on training he could come back and defeat Hendricks. I think GSP learned more about Hendricks, and about himself, than Hendricks learned about GSP.

First of all, the template is there to defeat Hendricks. Don't attempt to takedown or grapple with Hendricks. Keep him at a distance with leg kicks and jabs. Whenever GSP clinched with Hendricks he either lost position or was hit with short uppercuts. Whenever he attempted a takedown, elbows to the head. Those wore GSP down. Yes he got caught in the second round, but he was a bit rattled from those elbows in the first round.

The game plan for the next fight should be circle, jab, leg strikes, mid section leg kicks, liver shots. That's how you defeat Hendricks, keep him at a distance. Round 3 showed the way. GSP did the opposite in the other rounds, he closed the distance with a guy with powerful short arms with at least comparable wrestling ability.

It's going to be a long road back for GSP though with his issues. He needs to focus to beat Hendricks, but he can do it. Hendricks already showed his hand. GSP also overcame his fear since Serra of trading shots.

GSP should train body shots. You can't knock out that big bearded head.

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11-17-2013, 01:34 PM
  #552
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Personally, i think OVs Hendricks won the fight, but the rule of the sport are made so that the fight is judge round by round. The problem is that the round that Hendricks won he dominated way more than the round that GSP won (except R5). So at the end of the day I may agree that Hendricks beat GSP overall in the fight, but when judge round by round the result is completly different, it could clearly have gone both side.

IMO ive scored it 1-3-5 GSP 2-4 Hendricks. The round that was the most close to me was the first one. In that round GSP land a clean takedown at the beginning of the round that give im alot a point, plus hes the champion... lets not make it a secret when your the Champs and its close the decision goes in your favor.

So if we reverse the situation, If hendricks was the champion he would have won.

Actually im pretty happy with this split decision. And its actually true that if you want to take the belt from a Champs you have to either knock him, submit him or CLEARLY beat him, i dont think that a 2-2 round fight plus 1 whos pretty even (cause nothing really happen) is enough to beat a Champ.

Hendricks is still a pretty tough fighter, he will be the next champion of this division. But people that are arguing that it was a bad decision by the ref should blame how the sport is scored instead if they went to blame something. IMO

Sorry for my english, too lazy to correct myself

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11-17-2013, 01:38 PM
  #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikiki Bousquet View Post
GSP destroyed Hughes and Serra to win his titles... He never did go with only 75 % of his power when he was the one that had to prove something to the champion.

Worst decision in history ? Come on. Those decisions happen all the time, and it might not even be the worst this year, IMO.

You gotta KO or submit the champ, specially when you're supposed to be the K O specialist. If not, you let the stats decide it for you, and those were pretty close too.

It wasn't a clear win, that's for sure, but I can't say it was a clear loss too.
This

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11-17-2013, 01:52 PM
  #554
Chris Cutter
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For those debating whether or not GSP won the first round, fight metric released the numbers.

Significant strikes:
GSP 19
JH 18

Total strikes:
GSP 26
JH 27

Strikes to the head:
GSP 5
JH 9

Body shots:
GSP 16
JH 4

Shots to the legs:
GSP 5
JH 14

TD
GSP 1/2
JH 1/1



JH spent more time on top too.

GSP 1 Sub attempt

Hendricks landed a majority of his significant strikes while they were clinching while GSP got his when they were striking distance.

So it comes down to what you value more, head strikes and leg strikes or body shots and top control.

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11-17-2013, 02:03 PM
  #555
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The real problem with scoring this fight is the ten point must system which doesn't work very well over a few rounds that are also longer than three minutes. Close rounds need to be scored closer than 10-9, and big rounds, like rd 2, need to be scored more than 10-9.

Example, rd 1 should have been 10-10 and rd 2 should have been 10-8. That is a more accurate reflection of what happened and Hendricks comes out winning 48-47 even winning only two rounds.

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11-17-2013, 02:05 PM
  #556
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
The real problem with scoring this fight is the ten point must system which doesn't work very well over a few rounds that are also longer than three minutes. Close rounds need to be scored closer than 10-9, and big rounds, like rd 2, need to be scored more than 10-9.
Actually they can score a round 10-8 when a fighter dominate is opponent, it doesnt happen often tho.

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11-17-2013, 02:06 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
What I want to know is what the hell was he doing? I somehow doubt he was tapping, though it's a possibility, but was he waving to the ref or someone...?



Most people don't, and this is why people should shut up when it comes to making judgments on decisions in judged sports.

The system used isn't the greatest, it's based on the boxing scoring system, and it's the same problem the electoral systems used in Canada and the USA have (district ridings vs proportional representation). Scoring is round per round, and each of those are based on pure stats: punches thrown/landed, takedown success rate, knockdowns, etc. They don't consider damage dealt/received, pressure and forward movement, and other non-quantifiable stats.

As per the scoring system, GSP won the fight legitimately, even if we can all agree he was likely edged out in reality if you judge the fight as a whole.
This isn't even true, I see people parroting this to justify poor decisions, but clean effective striking and octagon control are part of the scoring criteria, so you're right when you say damage alone isn't a criteria, but clean effective striking is, which is what leads to the damage, under no criteria did GSP win this fight.

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11-17-2013, 02:06 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Phil Parent View Post
But there's a thing in combat where you have to decisively beat the champion to take his belt. And GSP is such a well established champ, that you have to VERY DECISIVELY beat him to take the belt.
Lot of people seem to think that, but it's not true. See Pacqiao (established champ, perceived as one of the world's best pound by pound at that time) vs. Bradley. Bradley did not even come close to beat Pacqiao and those Nevada judges gave him the decision, stripping the belt away from Pacman.

Corruption happens, it's not the first time someone got robbed by incompetent judges and it won't be the last.

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11-17-2013, 02:14 PM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelousmotion View Post
Lot of people seem to think that, but it's not true. See Pacqiao (established champ, perceived as one of the world's best pound by pound at that time) vs. Bradley. Bradley did not even come close to beat Pacqiao and those Nevada judges gave him the decision, stripping the belt away from Pacman.

Corruption happens, it's not the first time someone got robbed by incompetent judges and it won't be the last.

Thats what we call an ACTUAL really bad decision by referee or a steal wtv you want to call it

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11-17-2013, 02:18 PM
  #560
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Has anyone blamed the french media for this controversial decision yet?

Seriously, I m kinda surprised no one has considered that GSP's 'personal issues' might be a cop out t save face after a 'poor' performance.

I m a big fan of GSP but the whole "i got personal issues" is tue best excuse when you fail, in any job.

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11-17-2013, 02:19 PM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrePrisme View Post
Has anyone blamed the french media for this controversial decision yet?

Seriously, I m kinda surprised no one has considered that GSP's 'personal issues' might be a cop out t save face after a 'poor' performance.

I m a big fan of GSP but the whole "i got personal issues" is tue best excuse when you fail, in any job.
Well they announced prior to the fight that GSP had a big announcement so unless he thought for sure he would barely squeeze out the win, it wasn't BS.

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11-17-2013, 02:25 PM
  #562
habsfanatics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarrePrisme View Post
Has anyone blamed the french media for this controversial decision yet?

Seriously, I m kinda surprised no one has considered that GSP's 'personal issues' might be a cop out t save face after a 'poor' performance.

I m a big fan of GSP but the whole "i got personal issues" is tue best excuse when you fail, in any job.
No, GSP is a class act, he was planning this announcement after easily dismantling Hendricks, but I think he underestimated him a bit, he was reluctant to announce it, but Joe kept prying to get it from him. He didn't want to go out like this. I think he'll do the rematch and retire for good now.

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11-17-2013, 03:00 PM
  #563
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http://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/b...ERIA_01-13.pdf

If you guys want to read up on the criteria for judging and its applications.

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11-17-2013, 03:03 PM
  #564
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekar View Post
As per the scoring system, GSP won the fight legitimately, even if we can all agree he was likely edged out in reality if you judge the fight as a whole.
No he didn't.

http://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/b...ERIA_01-13.pdf

There's no way GSP should have won. Hendy knew it, GSP knew it, Rogan knew it, the fans knew it, every freaking body knows it.

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11-17-2013, 03:14 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post


An interesting shot of yesterday, showing Hendricks tapping
It would have been a disaster of epic proportions for the UFC if he had tapped. Can you imagine? But it's as if GSP didn't want to end the fight there....

Now as it stands, I think the whole thing, the way it ended is great for White and the UFC: he blames the Athletic Commission for poor judging, GSP wins but it ends in controversy and GSP cannot not give Hendricks a rematch cause he won't be able to live with himself. The re-match should be epic.

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11-17-2013, 03:32 PM
  #566
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In that gif, GSP releases the lock before Hendricks supposedly "taps" him. I know it doesn't mean anything, but it's something to think about. That being said, that gif of him tapping is reaching.

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11-17-2013, 03:37 PM
  #567
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
In that gif, GSP releases the lock before Hendricks supposedly "taps" him. I know it doesn't mean anything, but it's something to think about. That being said, that gif of him tapping is reaching.
That's not tapping, he barely moves it..

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11-17-2013, 03:40 PM
  #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's not tapping, he barely moves it..
I agree 100%.

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11-17-2013, 03:40 PM
  #569
Chris Cutter
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Like somebody pointed out in the other UFC thread, if Hendricks truly tapped GSP would have been more hesitant to go for a takedown like he did right away.

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11-17-2013, 03:41 PM
  #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's not tapping, he barely moves it..
I wonder why the hell he released it though.

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11-17-2013, 03:46 PM
  #571
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He didnt tap period

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11-17-2013, 03:47 PM
  #572
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Originally Posted by JackieChan View Post
I wonder why the hell he released it though.
Who knows, but it wasn't because of the "tap" considering GSP releases it just a second before Hendricks "taps" him. anyway, it wasn't a tap.
The decision was dumb. I immediately turned off my TV when they announced GSP as the winner. What a joke.

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11-17-2013, 03:52 PM
  #573
Chris Cutter
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Originally Posted by JackieChan View Post
I wonder why the hell he released it though.
Fighters do that all the time when they feel that the choke isn't fully applied, no point in wasting your energy.

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11-17-2013, 03:53 PM
  #574
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Originally Posted by JackieChan View Post
I wonder why the hell he released it though.
He never had it, he let go to try and gain better positioning, if you think GSP let him go because he tapped, don't you think GSP/GSP's corner would have made mention of this during the fight, I mean come on.

People claiming damage isn't a criteria for scoring are using a copout, and it's not even true. Effective striking includes damage, and impact from strikes, not just quantity, but quality, quality is more important.

I see this all the time to justify these silly decisions we see lately, but it's not true and has never been the intention of the unified rules. IT's BS.

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11-17-2013, 03:55 PM
  #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's not tapping, he barely moves it..
Strange though....why does he moves it like that? And when you look at what GSP was doing at the time.....not too far fetched to think that it could have been a way to start tapping unless he felt GSP wasn't then going to hold him...

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