HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Luke Schenn

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-16-2013, 11:22 PM
  #251
kolankosf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 152
vCash: 500
Luke Schenn had a terrific game against the Jets the other night. He repeatedly laid the body on dangerous guys like Kane and Schiefle, and had his man covered well in our zone. Kane and Scheifle also started avoiding puck battles along the boards because his hits on them were in their heads.

In 2011-2012 Defensemen we going for a premium. If you wanted a young D, you were going to have to severely overpay. Everyone knew it. When we traded JVR we had a plethora of scoring wingers and B.Schenn pretty much spent the year on IR. JVR became our best chip. Luke Schenn always has been a Defensive Dman, and next year will be forced to play a garuanteed 18-20 minutes a night based on Kimmo's departure alone.(Unless we make a trade.... Which we never do)

Also, if we had Karlson or Letang (a small quick forward, who can't really physically challenge people in his own end, doesn't hit or block shots... With the state our D is in right now. All the shot blockers and hitters getting older and broken... I think he'd be getting crucified on these boards worse than he is now. Luke is a solid middle ranking D. He'll always be 2nd pair and will grow into the shutdown role. That's his job. His job is to be what I described so when Grossman, Kimmo, Coburn and Streit are gone in 3-4 years, we have a dependable Veteran Stay at home D who'll probably pair with Ghost while we build on that building block with Morin, Alt and Hagg.

kolankosf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 02:50 AM
  #252
ahthorne
Registered User
 
ahthorne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 442
vCash: 500
This quote from Craig Berube about the emergence of Brayden Schenn's physical play makes me think of how Luke can improve his game...:

Quote:
“Being physical is not running around and hitting guys when the puck is gone,” Berube said. “Being physical is getting there when the puck is there and knocking a guy off the puck. And getting the puck.”
I feel like Luke goes for the big hit every time, as the forward slides the puck in behind him and his linemates give chase. The forward might get buried, but he has effectively taken Luke out of the play if he distributed the puck effectively before he got hit. If Luke was able to contain his physicality and instead focused on the puck - while using his body to create turnovers and take the puck - I think he'd be a much better player.

ahthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 11:34 AM
  #253
Funf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahthorne View Post
This quote from Craig Berube about the emergence of Brayden Schenn's physical play makes me think of how Luke can improve his game...:



I feel like Luke goes for the big hit every time, as the forward slides the puck in behind him and his linemates give chase. The forward might get buried, but he has effectively taken Luke out of the play if he distributed the puck effectively before he got hit. If Luke was able to contain his physicality and instead focused on the puck - while using his body to create turnovers and take the puck - I think he'd be a much better player.
I think it's all about picking your spots. Last year he seemed to do a pretty good job of it, although if I'm remembering correctly he probably got burned once or twice still.

Having said that, if you have somebody with the ability to make a bone crushing open ice hit at the blue line, it's a good thing! Makes the other team think twice about skating over your blue line with the puck.

Funf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 12:20 PM
  #254
Larry44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf View Post
I think it's all about picking your spots. Last year he seemed to do a pretty good job of it, although if I'm remembering correctly he probably got burned once or twice still.

Having said that, if you have somebody with the ability to make a bone crushing open ice hit at the blue line, it's a good thing! Makes the other team think twice about skating over your blue line with the puck.
We all complained that the D was too soft and backed in too much. Homer agreed and went out and got Grossmann and Schenn to provide some balance to the d corps. Both are very good players.

I think we need to think about trading one of the forwards for a mobile dman to replace Timonen. I don't know what we'll have to give up, I guess that depends who it is.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 12:27 PM
  #255
Funf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
We all complained that the D was too soft and backed in too much. Homer agreed and went out and got Grossmann and Schenn to provide some balance to the d corps. Both are very good players.

I think we need to think about trading one of the forwards for a mobile dman to replace Timonen. I don't know what we'll have to give up, I guess that depends who it is.
I think the problem is that we truly just need a #1 D-man, which would be very costly. You'd probably be looking at something like, giving up Couts + Schenn, which at that point is really more of a lateral move than just strictly improving the team.

Funf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 04:16 PM
  #256
Larry44
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf View Post
I think the problem is that we truly just need a #1 D-man, which would be very costly. You'd probably be looking at something like, giving up Couts + Schenn, which at that point is really more of a lateral move than just strictly improving the team.
No doubt it might be costly, but I don't think it has to be THAT costly. We need our pro scouts to find a younger player who can blossom but isn't getting the chance. E.g. Rundlad Ryan Ellis or Beaulieu, a good young prospect that Simmonds + might get you. Again, plus what depends on who it is.

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 04:20 PM
  #257
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Trade Simmonds or Hartnell for a PMD like Carle...who we had..go figure.

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 10:49 PM
  #258
PayItForward
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf View Post
I think the problem is that we truly just need a #1 D-man, which would be very costly. You'd probably be looking at something like, giving up Couts + Schenn, which at that point is really more of a lateral move than just strictly improving the team.
I agree.

Giving up Couturier + B. Schenn (if that's who your referring to) is too costly.

But I don't think Hartnell+ or Simmonds+ etc. are going to do it either. Maybe for younger guys who haven't proved much, are out of favor with their teams or don't have legit #1 d-men upside.

PayItForward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-17-2013, 11:13 PM
  #259
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 37,755
vCash: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Trade Simmonds or Hartnell for a PMD like Carle...who we had..go figure.
We need someone better than Carle. If we're trading assets to acquire a guy he needs to be able to shoot and QB a PP.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 05:24 AM
  #260
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PayItForward View Post
I agree.

Giving up Couturier + B. Schenn (if that's who your referring to) is too costly.

But I don't think Hartnell+ or Simmonds+ etc. are going to do it either. Maybe for younger guys who haven't proved much, are out of favor with their teams or don't have legit #1 d-men upside.
I don't think the flyers can get what they need for next year in trade. To your point, the only guys they could get with top shelf ability will be young and unproven. Nobody is trading 1st pair defensemen unless they are old and expense or the trade package is ridiculous. The Flyers will have to band aid in free agency until the prospects make the NHL and hopefully hit.

Psuhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:17 AM
  #261
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We need someone better than Carle. If we're trading assets to acquire a guy he needs to be able to shoot and QB a PP.
Who though...Big Buff? No thanks...

My point is mainly that if Holmgren didn't let him walk and signed him to a more reasonable deal when they had tagging space we would have a good PMD. Instead now we're still looking for one despite having Streit to round out the D a bit more. To get it we will have to trade an asset at some point because as your epic battle with DFF pointed out ...Holmgren botched developing the D properly by trading away so many picks by their own admission. Luckily they have changed course the last couple of drafts and stockpiled some decent D men who are still maybe a couple of years away. Unfortunately, we need to fill Timonen's spot but at least we'll have 6M to do it...

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:26 AM
  #262
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 11,920
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
Who though...Big Buff? No thanks...

My point is mainly that if Holmgren didn't let him walk and signed him to a more reasonable deal when they had tagging space we would have a good PMD. Instead now we're still looking for one despite having Streit to round out the D a bit more. To get it we will have to trade an asset at some point because as your epic battle with DFF pointed out ...Holmgren botched developing the D properly by trading away so many picks by their own admission. Luckily they have changed course the last couple of drafts and stockpiled some decent D men who are still maybe a couple of years away. Unfortunately, we need to fill Timonen's spot but at least we'll have 6M to do it...
Do you really think Carle was gonna sign to reasonable money? At the very least he probably would've gotten what Streit got. Not a discount by really any stretch of the imagination

__________________
"Help was not promised, lovely girl. Only death."
JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:31 AM
  #263
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Do you really think Carle was gonna sign to reasonable money? At the very least he probably would've gotten what Streit got. Not a discount by really any stretch of the imagination
He certainly wouldn't have gotten want Tampa gave him. He and Jagr wanted to stay and I'm sure they would have been reasonable..I mean Holmgren himself said in public they thought they could get a reasonable deal done with Carle but he got distracted by the Parise and Suter sweepstakes and let both walk. Even Jagr said he couldn't wait while being treated like a red headed step child...

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:32 AM
  #264
JDinkalage Morgoone
U of South Flurrida
 
JDinkalage Morgoone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 308 Negra Arroyo Ln.
Country: Uzbekistan
Posts: 11,920
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
He certainly wouldn't have gotten want Tampa gave him. He and Jagr wanted to stay and I'm sure they would have been reasonable..I mean Holmgren himself said in public they thought they could get a reasonable deal done with Carle but he got distracted by the Parise and Suter sweepstakes and let both walk. Even Jagr said he couldn't wait while being treated like a red headed step child...
Could be, guess we'll never know. I don't think it would've been anything under 5 given his track record.

JDinkalage Morgoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:36 AM
  #265
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Could be, guess we'll never know. I don't think it would've been anything under 5 given his track record.
Maybe not but certainly less of a term. Carle jumped at Tampa's offer

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:45 AM
  #266
Protest
C`est La Vie
 
Protest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Deptford, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,294
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
He certainly wouldn't have gotten want Tampa gave him. He and Jagr wanted to stay and I'm sure they would have been reasonable..I mean Holmgren himself said in public they thought they could get a reasonable deal done with Carle but he got distracted by the Parise and Suter sweepstakes and let both walk. Even Jagr said he couldn't wait while being treated like a red headed step child...
I think the cap hit would have been less, but I'm sure about the years. I don't think I'd want to be locked into a 5-6 year contract with him, even if it was only $4.75m. You can only have so many long term contracts. You need flexibility.

Protest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:51 AM
  #267
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protest View Post
I think the cap hit would have been less, but I'm sure about the years. I don't think I'd want to be locked into a 5-6 year contract with him, even if it was only $4.75m. You can only have so many long term contracts. You need flexibility.
I would have been just fine with giving him 5 and 5 ...TB upped it to 6 and he took it. With Carle though he is still pretty durable and young. He is doing pretty good in TB right now...fans like him. Anyway, again even though I was not enamored with Carle overall b/c of his lack of offensive prowess...I didn't like letting him walk for nothing. If Holmgren didn't see Carle in the future plans of the Flyers he would have traded him. I think Holmgren thought Carle would sit around and wait to be plan B and Holmgren grossly miscalculated and it did play a part in the team missing the playoffs..same with Jagr leaving. Both Hartnell and G wanted him back...

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 09:58 AM
  #268
Psuhockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshPerspective View Post
I would have been just fine with giving him 5 and 5 ...TB upped it to 6 and he took it. With Carle though he is still pretty durable and young. He is doing pretty good in TB right now...fans like him. Anyway, again even though I was not enamored with Carle overall b/c of his lack of offensive prowess...I didn't like letting him walk for nothing. If Holmgren didn't see Carle in the future plans of the Flyers he would have traded him. I think Holmgren thought Carle would sit around and wait to be plan B and Holmgren grossly miscalculated and it did play a part in the team missing the playoffs..same with Jagr leaving. Both Hartnell and G wanted him back...
I don't necessarily think Holmgren was counting on Carle being there. I know he said some things in public but GM's lie all the time. I think Holmgren honestly thought(foolishly) he could get Suter or Weber by throwing more money at them than anybody else like the flyers have always done. I think the flyers were going to sign only one of Coburn or Carle. As far as not trading Carle; flyers are a win now team and moving him would of killed their hopes of doing anything in the playoffs. I don't agree with that philosophy but that the flyers.

Psuhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 10:06 AM
  #269
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I don't necessarily think Holmgren was counting on Carle being there. I know he said some things in public but GM's lie all the time. I think Holmgren honestly thought(foolishly) he could get Suter or Weber by throwing more money at them than anybody else like the flyers have always done. I think the flyers were going to sign only one of Coburn or Carle. As far as not trading Carle; flyers are a win now team and moving him would of killed their hopes of doing anything in the playoffs. I don't agree with that philosophy but that the flyers.
It almost worked with Weber but the Suter and Parise attempt was really foolish IMO..that was the one that caused both Carle and Jagr to split.

From what I recall of Meltzer's point on this was that even with Coburn's signing they had tagging space at one point to get Carle signed. Don't remember the exact details. Sure Holmgren would have had to be creative with the cap but we know how that goes. He figured he would go for the homeruns..high risk and high reward. Sometimes you win those and sometimes you don't. Ask Ryan Howard.....your best bet is small ball in the long run. Holmgren is not that kind of GM and like you noted it's b/c of a win now mentality which is fine but not something sustainable...that's all. We paid a price last season..hopefully not this one.

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 10:12 AM
  #270
BobbyClarkeFan16
Registered User
 
BobbyClarkeFan16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: London Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,899
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We need someone better than Carle. If we're trading assets to acquire a guy he needs to be able to shoot and QB a PP.
The thing is, you aren't going to get something better than a Carle-like player unless you're willing to gut your depth to get a legitimate top pairing power play guy. The Flyers are in no position to be gutting their team to acquire a legitimate top pairing guy who can run the power play.

Right now, the Flyers would be better off letting the young prospects like Morin, Hagg, Ghost and Alt all develop. If they want a power play guy, they're going to have to take a chance on a guy like Jake Gardiner or Dmitry Kulikov, players who have shown in the past they might be capable of fulfilling that role, but are currently experiencing issues with their current clubs and that maybe a change of scenery is required.

BobbyClarkeFan16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 10:15 AM
  #271
LegionOfDoom91
Registered User
 
LegionOfDoom91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 13,492
vCash: 500
Jagr was never coming back, him & the words "reasonable deal" don't coexist. He was always going to the highest bidder. In the words of Kenny Powers "he plays to get paid".

LegionOfDoom91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 10:18 AM
  #272
SeanCWombBroom
DownieFaceSoftener
 
SeanCWombBroom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,776
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Jagr was never coming back, him & the words "reasonable deal" don't coexist. He was always going to the highest bidder. In the words of Kenny Powers "he plays to get paid".
Jagr is used to a certain lifestyle.

SeanCWombBroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 10:19 AM
  #273
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Jagr was never coming back, him & the words "reasonable deal" don't coexist. He was always going to the highest bidder. In the words of Kenny Powers "he plays to get paid".
I wouldn't say never...I don't even know if they even talked. Holmgren even during the season said they probably made a mistake not attempting to sign him. I can dig one up too if I have to...

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 10:20 AM
  #274
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The thing is, you aren't going to get something better than a Carle-like player unless you're willing to gut your depth to get a legitimate top pairing power play guy. The Flyers are in no position to be gutting their team to acquire a legitimate top pairing guy who can run the power play.
Yup..that was kind of my point..

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2013, 11:52 AM
  #275
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,398
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The thing is, you aren't going to get something better than a Carle-like player unless you're willing to gut your depth to get a legitimate top pairing power play guy. The Flyers are in no position to be gutting their team to acquire a legitimate top pairing guy who can run the power play.

Right now, the Flyers would be better off letting the young prospects like Morin, Hagg, Ghost and Alt all develop. If they want a power play guy, they're going to have to take a chance on a guy like Jake Gardiner or Dmitry Kulikov, players who have shown in the past they might be capable of fulfilling that role, but are currently experiencing issues with their current clubs and that maybe a change of scenery is required.
I have been saying this all along. nobody is going to trade their top pairing defenseman. especially a guy who can run the PP. Stop with the stupid proposals and be patient with our young guys. The Flyers finally have a nice young group of defenseman in the system. let them develop and see what we have.
And when they do get here dont start throwing out the B word after 25 games if things dont go well right away when they do get to the big club.
I wouldnt mind them looking at Gardiner or Kulikov in the offseason if thats the direction they decided to go in. With Mez on his way out and with Timonens status beyond this season being up in the air it would be fine to look at a player like Kulikov. If the price is right of course.

GoneFullHextall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.