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UFC 167 GSP vs. Hendricks (UPD Post 774: GSP announces semi-retirement/title forfeit)

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Old
11-18-2013, 07:52 PM
  #651
Jabba11
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Originally Posted by Seb View Post
He probably got a concussion during the fight. Getting punched by Hendricks do that.

It's a freaking miracle GSP didn't get KOed like all the others.
That's not a miracle. Able to successfully recover from hits like that, there's only Champions that have that experience. GSP did it against Condit and he showed his heart vs Hendricks. The only other guy who knows how to recover like that is Junior dos Santos. He showed so much heart vs Velasquez during his 2 loss.

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11-18-2013, 08:40 PM
  #652
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GSP didnt look very good during that fight. He almost finished Hendricks in the first couple of seconds but from then on Hendricks was the better fighter. He wanted it more. GSP was just there for show it seems. He usually spends fights on top of the other fighter but he couldnt project Hendricks down at all. Hendricks was too strong and too well prepared. As boxers Hendricks was the better one. I only gave GSP the 5th round. Hendricks was amazing and has been amazing for a while now. GSP needs to hang em up and let Hendricks be the champ.

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11-18-2013, 09:21 PM
  #653
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Brandon Prust @BrandonPrust8
I wonder if @danawhite even cares about GSP's head issues. If he's done making him millions I doubt he cares anymore

Dana White @danawhite
@BrandonPrust8 Hes not done. We've both made $. Who praises GSP more than me? His after fight speech wasnt the way 2do it GSP knows that now

Brandon Prust @BrandonPrust8
@danawhite just make sure u look out for our boy.. Outside the octagon. Merci
---------------
As for the TMZ ****, it's just that: ****. Wouldn't doubt there being some serious mental health issues with GSP. The way he was rambling and slurring and just not making much sense in general during the press conference worries me. He also alluded to his eye. Probably losing vision in it. I hope GSP doesn't get guilted into fighting again just so Dana can get another big money PPV at the expense of GSP's mental health.

I hope he steps away and opens up that karate school he wanted to. He'll be just fine financially. He's made a lot of money.

Obviously, it's just speculation, but yeah, it's more likely than the **** TMZ put up. That's such a joke.

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11-18-2013, 09:25 PM
  #654
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For a guy who was supposed to beat GSP and be so full of energy Hendricks sure lacked a lot of it in the fifth round.

GSP completely dominated that round, it wasn't even close and that's the round that sealed the deal. He finished on top of Hendricks for Price's sake !

He maybe looked tireless but that's part if his game. Hendricks was as gased as GSP in the end, you could see it at the beginning of the round when he was trying to motivate himself by singing his song.

I think what GSP did was messing with Hendricks rythm majing him believe he was in control while beating him in most round.

As for the missed memories, when he said that I really thought it was him making jokes and it got out of proportions. I think what he wanted to do is give props to Hendricks power. There's no way you could stand up to a guy like Hendricks while not knowing what you're doing.

If he did that good of a fight while being in depression he would of kill Johny if he woukd have been in a good state of mind.

GSP did in this fight what he always does. Making sure the microstats goes in his favor in case it comes to a decision. That's called playing with the system and it did work with that fight. This time he just did it standing up instead of on the ground.

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Old
11-18-2013, 09:43 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
GSP did in this fight what he always does. Making sure the microstats goes in his favor in case it comes to a decision. That's called playing with the system and it did work with that fight. This time he just did it standing up instead of on the ground.
He didn't even do that.

There's two ways to evaluate this fight, on a performance rating, or on a ten point system which is what the judges use.
Both of these systems are flawed if used alone, however the performance rating will likely be a lot closer to the reality.
The ten point system is extremely flawed and I don't even believe the judges use it properly. Fightmetric is the official and only statistical breakdown provider of the UFC. Even according to them, using a ten point system, Hendricks wins 48-47.
According to the performance rating, Hendricks wins 364-315, which is a lot more representative of the reality of this fight.

GSP suffered a concussion in the fight, he lost vision in his eye, he lost memory, he leaves the Octagon as an absolute mess that couldn't string two sentences together, he's bloody and completely bruised, he got destroyed damage wise. The performance rating shows it. Meanwhile, Hendricks is smiling without a scratch.
Listen, I love GSP, I'm a big fan of his and an obvious supporter being from Mtl, but he got owned in that fight and it was evident.

The problem here is that the ten point system they're using is extremely flawed. It leads to very controversial decisions such as this one.
How do they rate the damaging affect of one punch thrown from Hendricks vs GSP's?? What's more valuable, a kick to the inside leg or a punch to the stomach? A takedown or a connecting right hook? Is taking down a wrestler more earning than a striker with poor takedown defense?

There is no way anybody can actually argue that GSP indeed won this fight. If this was a street fight, nobody thinks GSP wins, heck, I'm pretty sure 99% of the people watching thought GSP lost. But because this stupid judging system is so horrible, some people are now changing their minds because a little stat shows GSP threw a few more strikes in the first round, regardless of their actual damage or impact.


GSP lost this fight. There's no question about it.

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11-18-2013, 09:44 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by durojean View Post
For a guy who was supposed to beat GSP and be so full of energy Hendricks sure lacked a lot of it in the fifth round.

GSP completely dominated that round, it wasn't even close and that's the round that sealed the deal. He finished on top of Hendricks for Price's sake !

He maybe looked tireless but that's part if his game. Hendricks was as gased as GSP in the end, you could see it at the beginning of the round when he was trying to motivate himself by singing his song.

I think what GSP did was messing with Hendricks rythm majing him believe he was in control while beating him in most round.

As for the missed memories, when he said that I really thought it was him making jokes and it got out of proportions. I think what he wanted to do is give props to Hendricks power. There's no way you could stand up to a guy like Hendricks while not knowing what you're doing.

If he did that good of a fight while being in depression he would of kill Johny if he woukd have been in a good state of mind.

GSP did in this fight what he always does. Making sure the microstats goes in his favor in case it comes to a decision. That's called playing with the system and it did work with that fight. This time he just did it standing up instead of on the ground.
"Dans mon livre moi",

If you don't give 100% effort in the fight, you don't even DESERVE to win. Hendricks told during the post fight press conference that he only went 70% of power against GSP and that it was enough...what a stupid comment. Seriously, I am no fighter, but when you don't go in that Octogone and you don't give everything you have, then you don't deserve ANYTHING. Same thing goes for Rory MacDonald..he deserved to get beat up like that against Lawler...the kid doesn't seem to understand..If you train with GSP, at least model yourself after his perseverance and the way he puts his heart out there. That's a true champion, not Hendricks "Mr Excuses" champion.

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11-18-2013, 09:48 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
"Dans mon livre moi",

If you don't give 100% effort in the fight, you don't even DESERVE to win. Hendricks told during the post fight press conference that he only went 70% of power against GSP and that it was enough...what a stupid comment. Seriously, I am no fighter, but when you don't go in that Octogone and you don't give everything you have, then you don't deserve ANYTHING. Same thing goes for Rory MacDonald..he deserved to get beat up like that against Lawler...the kid doesn't seem to understand..If you train with GSP, at least model yourself after his perseverance and the way he puts his heart out there. That's a true champion, not Hendricks "Mr Excuses" champion.
Hendricks was just talking trash, come on dude, that's obvious. He also said that he felt he did everything, but two judges didn't see it, he added that it sucks but he'll come back stronger, faster and that won't happen again. He could have talked a lot more trash.

In any event, Hendricks got robbed.

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11-18-2013, 09:52 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Hendricks was just talking trash, come on dude, that's obvious. He also said that he felt he did everything, but two judges didn't see it, he added that it sucks but he'll come back stronger, faster and that won't happen again.

In any event, Hendricks got robbed.
Well, there's one thing for sure, he did not go 100% power with his striking because GSP was able to prevent the KO from Hendricks. Just like Condit did to Hendricks. It's easy to say that you didn't go full out on the other guy, but don't undermine the other guy who neutralized your knockout power. Yeah, GSP got hit in the 2nd round, but why didn't Hendricks went full on to finish it? It's a poor management and judgement from Hendricks and his team because in other words, their fighting plan was to keep energy for the championship rounds?!

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11-18-2013, 09:56 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by CPrice 31 View Post
Brandon Prust @BrandonPrust8
I wonder if @danawhite even cares about GSP's head issues. If he's done making him millions I doubt he cares anymore

Dana White @danawhite
@BrandonPrust8 Hes not done. We've both made $. Who praises GSP more than me? His after fight speech wasnt the way 2do it GSP knows that now

.
Dana the ******* trying to preach how to handle a presser, and the media...lol

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11-18-2013, 09:56 PM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CPrice 31 View Post
Brandon Prust @BrandonPrust8
I wonder if @danawhite even cares about GSP's head issues. If he's done making him millions I doubt he cares anymore

Dana White @danawhite
@BrandonPrust8 Hes not done. We've both made $. Who praises GSP more than me? His after fight speech wasnt the way 2do it GSP knows that now

Brandon Prust @BrandonPrust8
@danawhite just make sure u look out for our boy.. Outside the octagon. Merci
---------------
As for the TMZ ****, it's just that: ****. Wouldn't doubt there being some serious mental health issues with GSP. The way he was rambling and slurring and just not making much sense in general during the press conference worries me. He also alluded to his eye. Probably losing vision in it. I hope GSP doesn't get guilted into fighting again just so Dana can get another big money PPV at the expense of GSP's mental health.

I hope he steps away and opens up that karate school he wanted to. He'll be just fine financially. He's made a lot of money.

Obviously, it's just speculation, but yeah, it's more likely than the **** TMZ put up. That's such a joke.
I have to say this though, I changed my mind of how I viewed things since last night. Originally I thought White was throwing GSP under the boss and he seemed like he didn't care about his guy's health issue but I thought this over. And to me GSP is an adult that chose this sport to make a living at and as such it's fair game. And frankly George never discussed his mental problems before the match, he was all smiling taking photos and then he went on pretty much throwing all his problems and worries after the match during a press conference. Why do that there? It's as if he threw all that there to have an excuse to not come back.

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11-18-2013, 09:57 PM
  #661
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The thing is that Judges are supposedly not given a statistic fight meter while judging a fight/round. I remember the UFC commentators say that in some events. I just cannot see how GSP could win that first round, because Hendricks landed the better strikes and was even busier than GSP. If I don't have the fight metric and use the naked eyes alone, there's no way I could say that GSP had one more significant strike than Hendricks.

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11-18-2013, 09:59 PM
  #662
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most people in "real life fights" can't throw a decent punch...
Well I still have the marks...

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11-18-2013, 10:08 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
Well, there's one thing for sure, he did not go 100% power with his striking because GSP was able to prevent the KO from Hendricks. Just like Condit did to Hendricks. It's easy to say that you didn't go full out on the other guy, but don't undermine the other guy who neutralized your knockout power. Yeah, GSP got hit in the 2nd round, but why didn't Hendricks went full on to finish it? It's a poor management and judgement from Hendricks and his team because in other words, their fighting plan was to keep energy for the championship rounds?!
You're reading way too much into his words. Hendricks went 110%, it's all trash talk.
Why should he pump the tires of the opponent he feels lost the fight??? Makes no sense. He's frustrated after the fight, he clearly thought he won and so did the rest of the world, to the point where fans boo probably the most respectful and loved fighter in the world, so ya, I'm not surprised he isn't giving props to GSP.

As for why he couldn't finish him, well he was certainly close to doing it and luckily for GSP, Hendricks lost his mouth guard giving him stopping the fight for 15-20 seconds that GSP absolutely needed. And yes, you absolutely have to fight smartly regarding your energy level in Championship fights. You don't want to dominate early and then lose in rds 4 or 5 because you already wasted too much energy.

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11-18-2013, 10:13 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
I have to say this though, I changed my mind of how I viewed things since last night. Originally I thought White was throwing GSP under the boss and he seemed like he didn't care about his guy's health issue but I thought this over. And to me GSP is an adult that chose this sport to make a living at and as such it's fair game. And frankly George never discussed his mental problems before the match, he was all smiling taking photos and then he went on pretty much throwing all his problems and worries after the match during a press conference. Why do that there? It's as if he threw all that there to have an excuse to not come back.
GSP alluded to it possibly being his last fight before. The first I heard of it was maybe a week or two ago, so it wasn't just after the game.
However, it is pretty odd, it's not really a humble retirement move. The guy talks as if he's having some type of burnout.

Personally, I didn't find that GSP was really into the fight, and if he's taking about retirement or leave of absence due to stress related issues, there's no way he's entering the octagon in the right mindset.
If there's a rematch and GSP is in the right spot, I don't think Hendricks beats him.

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11-18-2013, 10:19 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
GSP alluded to it possibly being his last fight before. The first I heard of it was maybe a week or two ago, so it wasn't just after the game.
However, it is pretty odd, it's not really a humble retirement move. The guy talks as if he's having some type of burnout.
Not a humble retirement speach, it's a "get away from me" speach. As such you're right he may have a burnout.

Quote:
Personally, I didn't find that GSP was really into the fight, and if he's taking about retirement or leave of absence due to stress related issues, there's no way he's entering the octagon in the right mindset.
If there's a rematch and GSP is in the right spot, I don't think Hendricks beats him.
My perception as well. He didn't seem into it. Not to take anything away from Hendricks but he didn't seem all into it.

Still I understand White's frustrations about GSP going all Oprah during the Press Conference. As a warrior and fighter you should accept everything that comes with it.

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11-18-2013, 10:26 PM
  #666
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Re: the 70% comment from Hendricks

I lol'd when he said he thought it was enough and Dana cut him off and told him it obviously wasn't since he left it in the hands of the judges. That shut Hendricks up for that little bit.

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11-18-2013, 10:32 PM
  #667
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He didn't even do that.

There's two ways to evaluate this fight, on a performance rating, or on a ten point system which is what the judges use.
Both of these systems are flawed if used alone, however the performance rating will likely be a lot closer to the reality.
The ten point system is extremely flawed and I don't even believe the judges use it properly. Fightmetric is the official and only statistical breakdown provider of the UFC. Even according to them, using a ten point system, Hendricks wins 48-47.
According to the performance rating, Hendricks wins 364-315, which is a lot more representative of the reality of this fight.

GSP suffered a concussion in the fight, he lost vision in his eye, he lost memory, he leaves the Octagon as an absolute mess that couldn't string two sentences together, he's bloody and completely bruised, he got destroyed damage wise. The performance rating shows it. Meanwhile, Hendricks is smiling without a scratch.
Listen, I love GSP, I'm a big fan of his and an obvious supporter being from Mtl, but he got owned in that fight and it was evident.

The problem here is that the ten point system they're using is extremely flawed. It leads to very controversial decisions such as this one.
How do they rate the damaging affect of one punch thrown from Hendricks vs GSP's?? What's more valuable, a kick to the inside leg or a punch to the stomach? A takedown or a connecting right hook? Is taking down a wrestler more earning than a striker with poor takedown defense?

There is no way anybody can actually argue that GSP indeed won this fight. If this was a street fight, nobody thinks GSP wins, heck, I'm pretty sure 99% of the people watching thought GSP lost. But because this stupid judging system is so horrible, some people are now changing their minds because a little stat shows GSP threw a few more strikes in the first round, regardless of their actual damage or impact.


GSP lost this fight. There's no question about it.
First, people are blowing this way out of proportion. There's nothing controversial here, and to claim this is a robbery is nothing short of idiotic. Thankfully, reading the MMA forums today, most people seem to be coming to the same conclusion. It's quite simple really. Hendrick's won rounds 2 and 4, and GSP 3 and 5. The first round was incredibly close - you could make a satisfying argument for either fighter. Thus there's absolutely nothing controversial about GSP winning a close decision.

Second, people going on about Hendricks as the second coming of MMA's version of Jesus Christ need their head examined. The guy has **** standup, basically limited to sloppy, albeit powerful, punching (if I had a dime every time I saw a boxer/MMA fighter rip through their first 10-20 opponents only to have their limited skill set exploited once they started fighting the upper echelon, I'd be a rich, rich man). Add to this his questionable cardio and it's hard to imagine, unless he improves both of these dramatically, even if he did beat GSP in a rematch, how he'll enjoy a reign of any length.

Third, back to the fight, while Hendricks did more damage (and by the way, check GSP's face after the Condit and Diaz fights, he looks pretty much the same), GSP controlled the fight for long periods of time. In fact, Hendricks did pretty much all his damage in the early part of the second round (after which GSP controlled the action) and the early part of the fourth round (where he landed a couple of elbows after GSP had tripped). Also, I'm sure many of those abrasions came from the "punches" when they were in close; but come on, these are superficial wounds, certainly not effective blows (like rabbit punches boxers use when they clinch up; the commentators were blowing these out of proportion).

Fourth, for all Hendricks so-called domination, he certainly didn't finish like a champion. Consider that as presumably as beat up as GSP was he was the one that pressed the action in the fifth, landing a nice body kick and punch to the head that, I think, put Hendricks down (Hendricks went down from the subsequent takedown but I think he was rattled).

Fifth, while some here have mentioned how damage should weigh more heavily, what about who finishes the fight more strongly? This was how it was scored in Pride years ago. I mean, it's really not how much damage you take, ultimately, in a fight, but whether in the end you're the stronger guy or, preferably, you finish the opponent. Anyone remember Gracie against Dan Severn? That's closer to a real fight, and all the damage Gracie took didn't matter as he managed a submission in the end (actually a great example is Bob Sapp and Nogueira).

Bottom line: it was a close fight that could have went either way according to the judging criteria they have in place. And when a fight is this close it's really absurd to argue who won (OMG one fighter landed one more kick or punch!). So the best thing to do is bring GSP and Hendricks back and have them do it again. End of story.


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11-18-2013, 10:41 PM
  #668
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I actually thought round two was closer than round one initially and that would be the deciding one, but yeah, each fighter won two rounds each and it came down to an incredibly close round to decide it.

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11-18-2013, 10:47 PM
  #669
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All in all, GSP did not win the fight but he survived it enough for the judge to not give the belt to Hendricks.

Hockeywise, it's just as if Boston beat Montreal 8-0, 5-0, 3-0 and Montreal beat Boston 2-1, 4-3, 5-4, 12-11 in a playoff series lolll

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11-18-2013, 10:54 PM
  #670
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Originally Posted by Jabba11 View Post
All in all, GSP did not win the fight but he survived it enough for the judge to not give the belt to Hendricks.

Hockeywise, it's just as if Boston beat Montreal 8-0, 5-0, 3-0 and Montreal beat Boston 2-1, 4-3, 5-4, 12-11 in a playoff series lolll
Well put, except it would have to be the other way around for a complete correlation

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11-18-2013, 11:33 PM
  #671
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First, people are blowing this way out of proportion. There's nothing controversial here, and to claim this is a robbery is nothing short of idiotic. Thankfully, reading the MMA forums today, most people seem to be coming to the same conclusion. It's quite simple really. Hendrick's won rounds 2 and 4, and GSP 3 and 5. The first round was incredibly close - you could make a satisfying argument for either fighter. Thus there's absolutely nothing controversial about GSP winning a close decision.

Second, people going on about Hendricks as the second coming of MMA's version of Jesus Christ need their head examined. The guy has **** standup, basically limited to sloppy, albeit powerful, punching (if I had a dime every time I saw a boxer/MMA fighter rip through their first 10-20 opponents only to have their limited skill set exploited once they started fighting the upper echelon, I'd be a rich, rich man). Add to this his questionable cardio and it's hard to imagine, unless he improves both of these dramatically, even if he did beat GSP in a rematch, how he'll enjoy a reign of any length.

Third, back to the fight, while Hendricks did more damage (and by the way, check GSP's face after the Condit and Diaz fights, he looks pretty much the same), GSP controlled the fight for long periods of time. In fact, Hendricks did pretty much all his damage in the early part of the second round (after which GSP controlled the action) and the early part of the fourth round (where he landed a couple of elbows after GSP had tripped).

Fourth, for all Hendricks so-called domination, he certainly didn't finish like a champion. Consider that as presumably as beat up as GSP was he was the one that pressed the action in the third, landing a nice body kick and punch to the head that, I think, put Hendricks down (Hendricks went down from the subsequent takedown but I think he was rattled).

Fifth, while some here have mentioned how damage should weigh more heavily, what about who finishes the fight more strongly? This was how it was scored in Pride years ago. I mean, it's really not how much damage you take, ultimately, in a fight, but whether in the end you're the stronger guy or, preferably, you finish the opponent. Anyone remember Gracie against Dan Severn? That's closer to a real fight, and all the damage Gracie took didn't matter as he managed a submission in the end (actually a great example is Bob Sapp and Nogueira).

Bottom line: it was a close fight that could have went either way according to the judging criteria they have in place. And when a fight is this close it's really absurd to argue who won (OMG one fighter landed one more kick or punch!). So the best thing to do is bring GSP and Hendricks back and have them do it again. End of story.
1- Yes, it was a controversy, hence all the talk, including your very own post.
I've had the same argument with my friend today, and I made him see it a little clearer. If GSP did enough to win round 1, 3 and 5, by 1 point, then hey, I'm giving round 2 to Hendricks 10-8, not 10-9.
In a ten point system, considering they almost never give out 10-8 scores, every round will be close in terms of points. That's a major reason why this ten point system is flawed.
I'm sorry, but if someone manages to inflict serious damage to an opponent and knock him down during a fight where the guy is just hanging on until the time wines down, I feel he deserves a better score than just 10-9 (or even 10-8) considering the opponent can come the next round cycle around the ring, jab jab, land a late take down and also earn a 10-9 victory.
It's also important to know that not every aspect is of the same importance, you can swing your arms like a mad man but the accuracy and power of your shots are a lot more important (at least to me), and Hendricks inflicted a lot more damage to GSP in that first round.
Btw, I thought GSP only won one round, not two and certainly not 3. I only gave him the last round.

2- Not sure what this has anything to do with the actual fight itself. I think Hendricks loses this fight if GSP is in the right mindset. As I said in another post, the guy appears to be having some type of burnout, so I don't think he was in it.

3- Disagreed. GSP started getting damage right from the first round when he went for a shoot and got a bunch of elbows hammering the side of the face as he tried to do a double leg takedown.

4- That punch did not put Hendricks down, that's your own speculation and shows you might actually be biased here. GSP is Champion for a reason, he didn't just give up and this was a first 5 rounds fight for Hendricks. In any event, I fail to see how this has anything to do with it. Hendricks beat him.

5- Hendricks would have won this fight probably in unanimous decision if this was Pride FC. You have confused, in Pride it wasn't about who came out on top in the final round or minutes, it's about who pressed to win more, meaning who seemed to go for more KOs or TKO, or Submissions. Not about how you finish in the last round.
You could maybe say this was equal, although I'd give it to Hendricks seeing how he had GSP in a really tight spot, more so than the submission attempt (btw, that sub attempt was one of the shortest ones, I just re-watched it and he doesn't even have it deep which is why he just lets it go after exactly 3 short seconds).
Damage, btw, was the 2nd most important criteria in Pride, and Hendricks wins this by far.
After that was Standing combos and ground control, I give the advantage to Hendricks there again.
Aggressiveness follows, I'll give that to GSP.
So ya, GSP would have likely lost to a unanimous decision in Pride FC.

But then, rules were also different in Pride so who knows what would have actually happened.


Bottom line: Yes, it was close fight because of the stupid criteria NSAC has, not because it was an even fight. Hendricks should have won. Agreed, the only way to settle this is by a rematch, will it happen is up to GSP. If it does, I hope as hell he comes in with a better mindset because I don't think we saw the real GSP last saturday.

PS: I suggest you re-watch the fight. I just did and my opinion is even stronger that Hendricks should have won. The knees to the thighs while clinching and elbows to the head he lands on GSP in the 1st round are huge and GSP is even less aggressive than I remembered.

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11-19-2013, 01:01 AM
  #672
Habs_Apostle
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1- Yes, it was a controversy, hence all the talk, including your very own post.
I've had the same argument with my friend today, and I made him see it a little clearer. If GSP did enough to win round 1, 3 and 5, by 1 point, then hey, I'm giving round 2 to Hendricks 10-8, not 10-9.
In a ten point system, considering they almost never give out 10-8 scores, every round will be close in terms of points. That's a major reason why this ten point system is flawed.
I'm sorry, but if someone manages to inflict serious damage to an opponent and knock him down during a fight where the guy is just hanging on until the time wines down, I feel he deserves a better score than just 10-9 (or even 10-8) considering the opponent can come the next round cycle around the ring, jab jab, land a late take down and also earn a 10-9 victory.
It's also important to know that not every aspect is of the same importance, you can swing your arms like a mad man but the accuracy and power of your shots are a lot more important (at least to me), and Hendricks inflicted a lot more damage to GSP in that first round.
Btw, I thought GSP only won one round, not two and certainly not 3. I only gave him the last round.

2- Not sure what this has anything to do with the actual fight itself. I think Hendricks loses this fight if GSP is in the right mindset. As I said in another post, the guy appears to be having some type of burnout, so I don't think he was in it.

3- Disagreed. GSP started getting damage right from the first round when he went for a shoot and got a bunch of elbows hammering the side of the face as he tried to do a double leg takedown.

4- That punch did not put Hendricks down, that's your own speculation and shows you might actually be biased here. GSP is Champion for a reason, he didn't just give up and this was a first 5 rounds fight for Hendricks. In any event, I fail to see how this has anything to do with it. Hendricks beat him.

5- Hendricks would have won this fight probably in unanimous decision if this was Pride FC. You have confused, in Pride it wasn't about who came out on top in the final round or minutes, it's about who pressed to win more, meaning who seemed to go for more KOs or TKO, or Submissions. Not about how you finish in the last round.
You could maybe say this was equal, although I'd give it to Hendricks seeing how he had GSP in a really tight spot, more so than the submission attempt (btw, that sub attempt was one of the shortest ones, I just re-watched it and he doesn't even have it deep which is why he just lets it go after exactly 3 short seconds).
Damage, btw, was the 2nd most important criteria in Pride, and Hendricks wins this by far.
After that was Standing combos and ground control, I give the advantage to Hendricks there again.
Aggressiveness follows, I'll give that to GSP.
So ya, GSP would have likely lost to a unanimous decision in Pride FC.

But then, rules were also different in Pride so who knows what would have actually happened.


Bottom line: Yes, it was close fight because of the stupid criteria NSAC has, not because it was an even fight. Hendricks should have won. Agreed, the only way to settle this is by a rematch, will it happen is up to GSP. If it does, I hope as hell he comes in with a better mindset because I don't think we saw the real GSP last saturday.

PS: I suggest you re-watch the fight. I just did and my opinion is even stronger that Hendricks should have won. The knees to the thighs while clinching and elbows to the head he lands on GSP in the 1st round are huge and GSP is even less aggressive than I remembered.
1. Controversial in the sense that it's created a discussion concerning how fights should be scored. It's really only rabid GSP and Hendricks' fans that are arguing absolutes. Perusing MMA forums, the most impartial posters seem to agree it was a tossup. And it was certainly no robbery.

By the way, rewatch round 2 (and don't listen to the freaking commentators). While Hendricks lands a few good blows (many of those so-called solid shots were glancing), GSP is never in any danger of going out and really holds his own, landing some great shots in this round as well. While I give this to Hendricks, he hardly battered GSP here; maybe stunned him briefly, but that's all (look it's a fight, it happens).

2. This had nothing to do with the actual fight itself. It was a response to all of those raving about how amazing Hendricks is (see comments in this thread).

3. Disagree. This is subjective. Were those elbows really effective? Superficially damaging maybe, but effective in what other sense? The commentators made such a big deal out of these. You could argue GSP exhibited octagon control as he had Hendricks on one leg and even up against the cage. Maybe your bias is at work here?

4. I agree. The punch didn't knock him down. What I would argue is that the kick and punch combination rattled Hendricks, which then allowed GSP to take him down (after all GSP had a great deal of trouble getting him down otherwise). That was a very effective combination: kick to body, punch to head, takedown.

5. I always thought it was who finished strongest that weighed most heavily under Pride rules. I think you're right, though, in your assessment. It's probably that, given what happened in the last round is so memorable, the fighter that finished the strongest was likely often perceived to have been the most aggressive. At any rate, this wasn't about judging the fight under Pride rules. Rather, it was only to point out that damage is one criteria you could apply; there are others you could add. And, as you point out, if you change the rules, you fundamentally change the game and, thus, the dynamics of the fight itself and how fighters approach it.

You stated at the outset that there is a controversy. Well, you've just agreed there is NO controversy (i.e., you just stated it was a CLOSE fight because of the stupid rules). Stupid rules aside, if those are the rules AND you agree it was CLOSE under these rules, then you shouldn't have a problem with GSP winning this fight. So UNDER THE RULES Hendricks should NOT have won (or, at least, as you seem to agree, it could be construed as a tossup). So nothing controversial here. Now if you want to argue the rules should be changed, that's a different matter (I personally hate the fact you can win a round with a single, useless takedown). But if you change the rules, you have a different sport, and then both GSP and Hendricks will approach the fight differently, so you'll have a different fight anyways.


Last edited by Habs_Apostle: 11-19-2013 at 01:10 AM.
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11-19-2013, 01:56 AM
  #673
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Originally Posted by Habs_Apostle View Post
1. Controversial in the sense that it's created a discussion concerning how fights should be scored. It's really only rabid GSP and Hendricks' fans that are arguing absolutes. Perusing MMA forums, the most impartial posters seem to agree it was a tossup. And it was certainly no robbery.

By the way, rewatch round 2 (and don't listen to the freaking commentators). While Hendricks lands a few good blows (many of those so-called solid shots were glancing), GSP is never in any danger of going out and really holds his own, landing some great shots in this round as well. While I give this to Hendricks, he hardly battered GSP here; maybe stunned him briefly, but that's all (look it's a fight, it happens).

2. This had nothing to do with the actual fight itself. It was a response to all of those raving about how amazing Hendricks is (see comments in this thread).

3. Disagree. This is subjective. Were those elbows really effective? Superficially damaging maybe, but effective in what other sense? The commentators made such a big deal out of these. You could argue GSP exhibited octagon control as he had Hendricks on one leg and even up against the cage. Maybe your bias is at work here?

4. I agree. The punch didn't knock him down. What I would argue is that the kick and punch combination rattled Hendricks, which then allowed GSP to take him down (after all GSP had a great deal of trouble getting him down otherwise). That was a very effective combination: kick to body, punch to head, takedown.

5. I always thought it was who finished strongest that weighed most heavily under Pride rules. I think you're right, though, in your assessment. It's probably that, given what happened in the last round is so memorable, the fighter that finished the strongest was likely often perceived to have been the most aggressive. At any rate, this wasn't about judging the fight under Pride rules. Rather, it was only to point out that damage is one criteria you could apply; there are others you could add. And, as you point out, if you change the rules, you fundamentally change the game and, thus, the dynamics of the fight itself and how fighters approach it.

You stated at the outset that there is a controversy. Well, you've just agreed there is NO controversy (i.e., you just stated it was a CLOSE fight because of the stupid rules). Stupid rules aside, if those are the rules AND you agree it was CLOSE under these rules, then you shouldn't have a problem with GSP winning this fight. So UNDER THE RULES Hendricks should NOT have won (or, at least, as you seem to agree, it could be construed as a tossup). So nothing controversial here. Now if you want to argue the rules should be changed, that's a different matter (I personally hate the fact you can win a round with a single, useless takedown). But if you change the rules, you have a different sport, and then both GSP and Hendricks will approach the fight differently, so you'll have a different fight anyways.
1- I re-watched the whole fight already and my position stands. As for the 2nd round, say what you want, GSP's legs wobble after a hook. He then has to sustain a good number of punches and he's backing away, luckily for him Hendrick loses his mouthguard and it gives him a bit of a breather. They exchange some punches later on but GSP's punches are mostly jabs keeping Hendricks more at bay, however he isn't controlling the octagon, not any more than Hendricks is.
GSP got more damaged in this round. It wasn't just merely ''stunned''

2- I don't think Hendricks is that awesome. I think people feel that way because he should have won the fight versus arguably the best or top two p4p fighter in the world.

3- My bias?? Hmmm...let's see, you're claiming the punches Hendricks threw didn't really hurt him in the 2nd, it was more of ''stunned briefly'', then you say that GSP established control from that one leg grab (without mentioning it was actually a takedown attempt well defended by Hendricks), then question the effectiveness of the elbows thrown on GSP (even though GSP moved his face to protect himself and then let go of the leg after keeping on receiving these elbows), but ya, sure, I'm the one showing some bias...

4- So GSP threw a good combination leading to a takedown? Okay, that's a far stretch from calling it a knockdown.

5- It wasn't my assessment though, those were the factual criteria to judging in Pride. Of course there are plenty of criteria to apply, and they should each have a different priority value. Damage should be at the top, it's only logical.



Yes there is a controversy, because even under these dumb rules, GSP should have lost. Matter of fact, even the official statistical company provider of the UFC had Hendricks winning in a ten point system. So yes, there was a controversy.
There's an even bigger one if you look at the performance rating where Hendricks beat GSP 364 to 315.
My point was to show that under this system, if you look at the points, it will always be a close fight because there's so little difference in points attributed. 10-9 that's it.
But it doesn't make the fight actually a close one.
The scoring was close (as it always is) but the fight wasn't.


And please don't assume I'm someone who's judgment gets influenced by Goldberg talking out of his ass. I don't care about the commenting. I've been watching MMA for a very, very long time. I'm not expert but I have a pretty good understanding of the sport.

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11-19-2013, 06:39 AM
  #674
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They had St-Pierre trainer in Le match and you could see during the fight that his coach scored the match exactly like tge 2 judges that gave the win to GSP.

The one hanging on to dear life in tge 5th round was Hendricks not GSP.

As for the mouthpiece thing a proof that you really are no expert on the matter the coach actually said it helped Hendrics in that roubd because St-Pierre had clinched Hendricks thus nullifying the power of the attacks Hendricks could have done. The break actually helped Hendricks getting distance with Georges tus having the opportunities to make more damage.

There's a reason why 2 out of 3 judges gave that match to GSP. GSP won within the system. The system would have been different probably the strategy too so the point is moot.

Hendricks was lucky GSP tripped in the fourth round because it did began like the third where GSP won with almost the double of critical hit Hendricks had and GSP had more in the first round too.

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11-19-2013, 07:41 AM
  #675
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I haven't seen it in this thread, sorry if this has been reported before.

UFC 167: Johny Hendricks Earns Lengthy Medical Suspension, Could Miss 6 Months

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