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Roster Speculation 2013-2014 Part II

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Old
11-18-2013, 09:32 PM
  #1
jfb392
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Roster Speculation 2013-2014 Part II

Quote:
Originally Posted by stokes84 View Post
I assume this means he's been sent back.
Yes, "just ran into a good source who confirms that Mikhail Grigorenko will be returned to the QMJHL in the coming days".

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11-18-2013, 09:33 PM
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Was hoping he would stay...this is a bummer.

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11-18-2013, 09:36 PM
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Martin Biron ‏@martybiron43 16m

To translate my last tweet. @StephRDSJunior said he talked to a source who confirm Grigorenko would be going back to juniors.

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11-18-2013, 09:56 PM
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Would rather just see what I could get for Grigs on the trade market versus sending him to the Q. Sending him to the Q will just cause a huge confidence and trust issue with the organization. His career will essentially be done.

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11-18-2013, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Would rather just see what I could get for Grigs on the trade market versus sending him to the Q. Sending him to the Q will just cause a huge confidence and trust issue with the organization. His career will essentially be done.
Yes his career is over because he got sent back at 19 years old.

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11-18-2013, 10:04 PM
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Good. The guy is clearly not ready. Regier screwed the pooch by starting the clock on his contract and potentially losing years of control, but the guy needs to be playing to improve, and playing at a level where he is not completely lost.

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11-18-2013, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 1972 View Post
Yes his career is over because he got sent back at 19 years old.
Take the age out and just look at what this kid has gone through. I don't blame him if he says f u to the Sabres and goes to Russia. This organization has done an incredible disservice towards him and the relationship will never be strong.

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11-18-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Martin Biron ‏@martybiron43 16m

To translate my last tweet. @StephRDSJunior said he talked to a source who confirm Grigorenko would be going back to juniors.
I'm sure this isn't easy for Grigs with 3 different Sabres' coaches for him and now being sent down for the 2nd time. I'm hoping LaFontaine and Nolan had a really good talk with him so has specific things to work on in the Q and he doesn't get discouraged.

New on the best seller list: How to mishandle a top prospect by the Buffalo Sabres.

Thanks Darcy!

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11-18-2013, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Would rather just see what I could get for Grigs on the trade market versus sending him to the Q. Sending him to the Q will just cause a huge confidence and trust issue with the organization. His career will essentially be done.
Why would it do that...

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11-18-2013, 10:15 PM
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ZZamboni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Would rather just see what I could get for Grigs on the trade market versus sending him to the Q. Sending him to the Q will just cause a huge confidence and trust issue with the organization. His career will essentially be done.
Good god you view players, developing, management, busts, ownership, trades and drafts in the exact opposite of reality. It's quite incredible. 19 year old sent to juniors is the exact opposite of bust, and ruined.

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11-18-2013, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloFan4Life View Post
Take the age out and just look at what this kid has gone through. I don't blame him if he says f u to the Sabres and goes to Russia. This organization has done an incredible disservice towards him and the relationship will never be strong.
What exactly has he "done"? He's not ready and it showed. He needs to go back and improve himself and mature and grow. Just like 90% of every other draft pick. Regier screwed this up, but something tells me LaFontaine's communications skills will be in full use helping Mikhail with the transition back to a level he should still be at.

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11-18-2013, 10:35 PM
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Honestly wouldn't mind shopping Grigorenko at this point. I don't think he will be a bust or a bad hockey player. With murmurs of the Sabres wanting young budding roster players rather than picks, it might not be a bad idea to see what a team might pay for a Miller (salary retained) and Grigorenko package.

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11-18-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
What exactly has he "done"? He's not ready and it showed. He needs to go back and improve himself and mature and grow. Just like 90% of every other draft pick. Regier screwed this up, but something tells me LaFontaine's communications skills will be in full use helping Mikhail with the transition back to a level he should still be at.
The Sabres need you to be right.

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11-18-2013, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Good. The guy is clearly not ready. Regier screwed the pooch by starting the clock on his contract and potentially losing years of control, but the guy needs to be playing to improve, and playing at a level where he is not completely lost.
Bingo. Regier and crew really screwed this up last year by rushing him. Whether it was them being scared he would bolt to Russia or them really thinking it was best for him to be in the NHL, they messed up bad by starting his ELC and then burning a year of UFA. That put them between a rock and a hard place this year, and they kept him up because of it. Sending a player back to the Q after burning two years off his ELC sucks, but this new FO did the right thing given the circumstance. Take the hit on his contract status in order to try to salvage this kid's career.

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11-18-2013, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhett4 View Post
Bingo. Regier and crew really screwed this up last year by rushing him. Whether it was them being scared he would bolt to Russia or them really thinking it was best for him to be in the NHL, they messed up bad by starting his ELC and then burning a year of UFA. That put them between a rock and a hard place this year, and they kept him up because of it. Sending a player back to the Q after burning two years off his ELC sucks, but this new FO did the right thing given the circumstance. Take the hit on his contract status in order to try to salvage this kid's career.
Moskau's point that the guy who'd been playing all year looking good in a shortened camp when so many guys where out of shape or not up to any sort of game speed is a good one. But what sucks is that once he showed he wasn't ready -- and it was by about 5-6 games in that it was apparent he was not strong enough to compete and looked timid/tentative/afraid that he should've gone back.

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11-18-2013, 11:24 PM
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Reality is the blame for being in this position is 100% on Regier.

Sorry to eat the drum again, and again but since 48 & 23 left, we've needed centers! We were not in "tank" mode two offseasons ago, we just traded our only center (Roy) for Ott, and Regier choose to go into the short season with 3 unseasoned centers. He has not traded for a center, signed one, or picked up one off the scrap heap since they left. An 18 year old kid was thrust into a role he wasn't ready for, nor was Ennis or Hodgson.

I feel bad for the kid, and for Ennis too. Hodgson seems to have his career head on straight with training and only plays center...but Ennis is all over the lace too, and what-do-you-know, he's struggling for two plus seasons. I really hope mgmt just focuses on a plan for the team, and individual players too.

Grigs needs to be away from this house cleaning, let him feel the thrill of scoring and the cheers. This team is a mess.

Regier screwed this team up bad, I hope Patty can fix some of the obvious issues first, before we turn the team over to the next core.

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11-19-2013, 02:59 AM
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I know Pegula was encouraging his organization to take risks, but they never should have taken Grigorenko at 12. They talked to Roy, who was struggling with Grigorenko's work ethic at the time.

Devine will help orient LaFontaine. I think the new GM will be more involved with the draft than Darcy was.

They should have taken BPA (Teravainen or Hertl?). I know, hindsight is wonderful.... and I'm sure I'll change my mind in ten years.

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11-19-2013, 03:30 AM
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What's the deal with Ristolainen staying up? After Nolan said he didn't like having teenagers, everyone assumed Zadorov would be sent down, and probably Grigorenko. Nolan likes Girgs a lot so he'll stick, but that leaves Risto. I thought two of his better games were the two most recent Toronto games, he was playing as physical as I've ever seen from him and his passes are really sharp. IMO he's gotten a lot better since the start of the season and that kind of improvement over a whole year would be pretty big for him. He doesn't have the body nor does he play like a just turned 19-year old so the teenager excuse can't be used here.

I said "I'd rather see Grigorenko in the lineup than Leino" the day before he got sent down, but I'd rather see Risto in the lineup over Weber or McBain. It's a different situation between Grigs and Risto because the latter is in a more sheltered role (Grigs didn't have a sheltered role.. he had no role) and the former plays 17-19 mins a night, whereas Grigs struggled to even get on the ice. If Risto is improving while in the NHL, that seems like the best option for him. I'm sure working with Teppo has been good for his development. I will say, sending him to the AHL (if he'll go) might not be the worst option with Armia playing for them.

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11-19-2013, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
Good god you view players, developing, management, busts, ownership, trades and drafts in the exact opposite of reality. It's quite incredible. 19 year old sent to juniors is the exact opposite of bust, and ruined.
This is his second demotion after having made the team out of camp in consecutive years, not exactly the same as a 19 year old getting demoted after a 9 game tryout. Not like it won't affect him at all either, confusion, bitterness, apathy, could motivate him, could make him want out of the organization. Hes still just a kid and everything about his time in the organization is bizarre, if it was a movie people wouldn't believe it was a true story.

3 coaching changes, buried on the 4th line, GM fired, junior coach moved to NHL, AHL playoffs last year, benched because of bad defense when he was an even player then scratched and demoted after a 2 goal game... in less than 12 months.

Just hope Nolan & Lafontaine sat down with Grigs and fully explained the reasoning behind this.

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11-19-2013, 05:07 AM
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I know Pegula was encouraging his organization to take risks, but they never should have taken Grigorenko at 12. They talked to Roy, who was struggling with Grigorenko's work ethic at the time.

Devine will help orient LaFontaine. I think the new GM will be more involved with the draft than Darcy was.

They should have taken BPA (Teravainen or Hertl?). I know, hindsight is wonderful.... and I'm sure I'll change my mind in ten years.
This reads a lot like revisionist history to me. Grigorenko was pretty much the highest rated guy when Buffalo picked, it's not like he was a reach by any means. Hertl and Teravainen fell to 17 and 18. It's not like they were immediately scooped up after Grigorenko got picked. Hertl's inclusion especially seems to be influenced by his success so far this season, and not at all related to how he was rated when the draft actually happened.

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11-19-2013, 06:33 AM
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11-19-2013, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Good. The guy is clearly not ready. Regier screwed the pooch by starting the clock on his contract and potentially losing years of control, but the guy needs to be playing to improve, and playing at a level where he is not completely lost.
This

Long term, letting Grigorenko hit 10 games last year might have been a bigger misstep than giving RonRol the full time gig.

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11-19-2013, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by dotcommunism View Post
This reads a lot like revisionist history to me. Grigorenko was pretty much the highest rated guy when Buffalo picked, it's not like he was a reach by any means. Hertl and Teravainen fell to 17 and 18. It's not like they were immediately scooped up after Grigorenko got picked. Hertl's inclusion especially seems to be influenced by his success so far this season, and not at all related to how he was rated when the draft actually happened.
There were plenty of red flags on Grigorenko leading up to the draft.

But, a lot of people were excited to get him where the Sabres did.

Right now, it looks like a risk they shouldn't have taken. But, there is still time.

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11-19-2013, 08:28 AM
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Nolan: "We have to develop these kids and make sure they're ready to play in the NHL" Nolan said he studied Det and LAK development

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on Grigorenko and Zadorov...spoke late into night with Lafontaine about whether they should go to juniors. will talk again today

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11-19-2013, 09:05 AM
  #25
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If Regier was still here and they sent Mikhail back to the Q, I think it could have been bad bad news. But with a completely new regime coming in, it's possibly for them to do this without ruining the relationship the team has with Mikhail.

They can go to him and say "Sorry Mikhail, it was a mistake and unfair to you to expect you to come play in the NHL right away. We want to do what's best for your career." Might it back fire? Sure.

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