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Markov wants to stay in Montreal and wants one more contract

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Old
11-19-2013, 12:52 AM
  #226
ECWHSWI
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan View Post
Hes not a number one defenceman anymore sorry.... Maybe four or five years ago....but not now take off the rose coloured glasses
he'd be on the first pair of 3/4 of the NHL teams, including very good ones.

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11-19-2013, 08:09 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan View Post
Pass....his 5 million would be bettter spent elsewhere.....
Give a specific example of where it could be used elsewhere to improve the team.

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11-19-2013, 08:15 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Give a specific example of where it could be used elsewhere to improve the team.
Don't you know? Cap space = NHL allows us to sign whoever we want!

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11-19-2013, 08:58 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan View Post
Pass....his 5 million would be bettter spent elsewhere.....
huh.... So would you mind telling me who, at 5 million, is better than Markov and is available?

Assuming, of course, that this magical player wants to play for the Habs and also doesn't mind that his 5million will be severely reduced because of the taxes.

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11-19-2013, 09:00 AM
  #230
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Love the guy... so good in so many facets of the defensive game for so long despite big injuries.

I hope we resign him... clearly he's still effective and a key factor to our success especially the PP.

Also... I won an official Markov jersey in a Blocks arcade game and if he retires a Hab, I can wear that jersey forever proudly... thank god it wasn't a Ryder or Cammalleri jersey

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11-19-2013, 09:06 AM
  #231
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Given his age, I'm pretty sure Markov would accept a discount if Habs propose him a longer term. I think that would be a solution since if he's not good enough at the end of the contract, I'm pretty sure he would prefer to play in the KHL rather than be the #7 d-man in Montreal.

So i'll offer something like:

5 years (until he's 40, which is risky but ok for an intelligent defense), at something like 5 / 4.5 / 3.5 / 3 / 2.5 -- for an average of 3.7 per year, which is a better cap hit than Gorges!!!! So I'm all for risking a 5 years.

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11-19-2013, 09:13 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Given his age, I'm pretty sure Markov would accept a discount if Habs propose him a longer term. I think that would be a solution since if he's not good enough at the end of the contract, I'm pretty sure he would prefer to play in the KHL rather than be the #7 d-man in Montreal.
But it's a 35+ contract, so if he's in the KHL or retired, it still counts on our cap...
Quote:
So i'll offer something like:

5 years (until he's 40, which is risky but ok for an intelligent defense), at something like 5 / 4.5 / 3.5 / 3 / 2.5 -- for an average of 3.7 per year, which is a better cap hit than Gorges!!!! So I'm all for risking a 5 years.
I think he might actually be able to play 5 more years, so I'm not wholly against the idea. But I think you have to try the 3 years approach first, see what those numbers are. If it was $18M/3yrs vs. $18.5M/5yrs, then I could see gambling on the 5 year deal from our side... but it's probably not enough extra money to make a "security" factor register with Markov there. Probably have to bump the cap hit up more. $20M/5yrs, maybe.

The cap will be enormous in a few years, so in the event that we don't actually have Markov in the lineup at the end, it might have been worth it for the shorter term cap savings... depending on what we do with that money. It wouldn't likely be "disastrous" to us at any rate.

Seems like it might be an "unneccessary risk", though?

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11-19-2013, 09:14 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Given his age, I'm pretty sure Markov would accept a discount if Habs propose him a longer term. I think that would be a solution since if he's not good enough at the end of the contract, I'm pretty sure he would prefer to play in the KHL rather than be the #7 d-man in Montreal.

So i'll offer something like:

5 years (until he's 40, which is risky but ok for an intelligent defense), at something like 5 / 4.5 / 3.5 / 3 / 2.5 -- for an average of 3.7 per year, which is a better cap hit than Gorges!!!! So I'm all for risking a 5 years.
So you think Markov would be happy with a cap hit less than Gorges?

Even on a 5 year deal the cap hit would be around 4.75-5 mil.

Best case for the Habs...2 mil signing bonus
year 1-5.5 mil
year 2-5 mil
year 3-4.5 mil
year 4-4 mil
year 5-4 mil

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11-19-2013, 09:28 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
So you think Markov would be happy with a cap hit less than Gorges?

Even on a 5 year deal the cap hit would be around 4.75-5 mil.

Best case for the Habs...2 mil signing bonus
year 1-5.5 mil
year 2-5 mil
year 3-4.5 mil
year 4-4 mil
year 5-4 mil
Maybe you're right. So I wouldn't mind adding a 6th year to lower the cap hit short term.

And with the signing of Emelin, given what Subban and Markov will get, I think there won't be enough room for Gorges anyway... But it's just an opinion.

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11-19-2013, 09:31 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
But it's a 35+ contract, so if he's in the KHL or retired, it still counts on our cap...

I think he might actually be able to play 5 more years, so I'm not wholly against the idea. But I think you have to try the 3 years approach first, see what those numbers are. If it was $18M/3yrs vs. $18.5M/5yrs, then I could see gambling on the 5 year deal from our side... but it's probably not enough extra money to make a "security" factor register with Markov there. Probably have to bump the cap hit up more. $20M/5yrs, maybe.

The cap will be enormous in a few years, so in the event that we don't actually have Markov in the lineup at the end, it might have been worth it for the shorter term cap savings... depending on what we do with that money. It wouldn't likely be "disastrous" to us at any rate.

Seems like it might be an "unneccessary risk", though?
I forgot about the 35+ thing. Thanks!

Since Habs' young d-men are still 1-to-3 years away of having a significant impact, and given the lack of significant d-men on the UFA market (that you would have to overpay anyway), I'm all for taking the long-term risk.

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11-19-2013, 09:37 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Maybe you're right. So I wouldn't mind adding a 6th year to lower the cap hit short term.

And with the signing of Emelin, given what Subban and Markov will get, I think there won't be enough room for Gorges anyway... But it's just an opinion.
With a 35+ though 6 years is too risky, I would even be concerned over 5.

If a guy loses passion for playing in the NHL, you can't move the contract, even if he retires. This means thatr even in Markov pulled a "Kovalchuk" his cap hit would still be there with no player on the roster to show for it.

To minimize the risk, 3 years at 5.5-5.75 mil cap hit might be best... something like: 1-6.5 mil 2-5.5 mil 3-5 mil.

Edit: I believe if AM signs in the next month it's not a 35+ contract(even though it only kicks in at 35). That way I would go 4 or 5 years now, if he decides to retire or wants to play KHL in 2-3 years you can "retire" him and he can walk away with no cap hit.

Edit#2: Not clear from this...

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/what-s-a-35-plus-contract


Last edited by Monctonscout: 11-19-2013 at 11:33 AM.
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Old
11-19-2013, 10:17 AM
  #237
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the guy still plays more than Subban.
Please tell me that this is not a serious argument...

Our coach being an idiot is not an indication of anything other than his own idiocy.
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Originally Posted by Nicko999 View Post
And that "glass" player is now on a 82 games iron streak... Lol. Only Gorges has a longer streak on D(with Habs, Bouillon doesn't count).
I disagree with what the other poster said... I still see Markov as a #1 guy but it would be with a weak team. He's an outstanding number 2 though and is still among the best at running a PP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Given his age, I'm pretty sure Markov would accept a discount if Habs propose him a longer term. I think that would be a solution since if he's not good enough at the end of the contract, I'm pretty sure he would prefer to play in the KHL rather than be the #7 d-man in Montreal.

So i'll offer something like:

5 years (until he's 40, which is risky but ok for an intelligent defense), at something like 5 / 4.5 / 3.5 / 3 / 2.5 -- for an average of 3.7 per year, which is a better cap hit than Gorges!!!! So I'm all for risking a 5 years.
Five years? You crazy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Maybe you're right. So I wouldn't mind adding a 6th year to lower the cap hit short term.

And with the signing of Emelin, given what Subban and Markov will get, I think there won't be enough room for Gorges anyway... But it's just an opinion.
Six years? You are crazy.

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Old
11-19-2013, 10:20 AM
  #238
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Isn't Markov's b-day soon? He'll be 35 I think. But I thought the contract is a 35 + when the contract begins and not when it's signed.

Three years max: 5, 5, 5 - maybe he can sign something afterwards. I simply don't trust those knees. There was a Bruins game from last year that sticks out in my mind. They skated around Markov all night. I realize there are variables. I just don't feel that the Markov I see now is what the Habs will get down the road.

Each year it seems the game gets faster and Markov is only going to get slower.

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Old
11-19-2013, 10:50 AM
  #239
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Five years? You crazy?

Six years? You are crazy.
You may not have read the arguments.
  • He's still good, and he's an "intelligent play first" type of defensman who doesn't overly rely on speed and physical. This type of defensman usually play until they're 40 without much problem (even if they're not as good in the end) -- I wouldn't have said that last year, but he showed this year that he had well adapt to his declining speed.
  • There is nobody in the UFA list that can bring what Markov is bringing for the next 2 years, at least, and you would overpay anyway for those defensmen.
  • Habs' young d-men prospects won't match Markov's impact for at least another 2-3 years. So they could be ready when Markov would fade away.
  • A long term contract would probably allow Habs to sign him at a discount in term of cap hit, which would allow to sign a UFA if needed toward the end of the contract.

Of course, I'm willing to sign him 5-6 years ONLY IF THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT DISCOUNT. That's it. If there is no discount, then no more than 3 years.

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11-19-2013, 11:23 AM
  #240
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It looks to me like Markov is skating better than last season and with his style I think he has three to five years left. Rude and wrong that management has the former All-Star and the current Norris winner waiting in line for their contracts behind Diaz.

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11-19-2013, 11:37 AM
  #241
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It looks to me like Markov is skating better than last season and with his style I think he has three to five years left. Rude and wrong that management has the former All-Star and the current Norris winner waiting in line for their contracts behind Diaz.
That's a common belief that Bergevin is dealing with Diaz before Subban and Markov. But honnestly, the only thing we know is that he has met his agent. It could very well be a preliminary meeting to exchange figures, for Bergevin to know what he will face. Then there's nothing we know. Bergevin could have very well shake the agent's hand and say "let's meet up later this year" while he now starts negociating with Subban and Markov.

I don't know, I may be wrong, but really, we don't know squat.

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11-19-2013, 12:26 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Mahleezer View Post
Love the guy... so good in so many facets of the defensive game for so long despite big injuries.

I hope we resign him... clearly he's still effective and a key factor to our success especially the PP.

Also... I won an official Markov jersey in a Blocks arcade game and if he retires a Hab, I can wear that jersey forever proudly... thank god it wasn't a Ryder or Cammalleri jersey
Yeah what stupid person gets one of those for his birthday

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11-19-2013, 03:44 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
You may not have read the arguments.
  • He's still good, and he's an "intelligent play first" type of defensman who doesn't overly rely on speed and physical. This type of defensman usually play until they're 40 without much problem (even if they're not as good in the end) -- I wouldn't have said that last year, but he showed this year that he had well adapt to his declining speed.
  • There is nobody in the UFA list that can bring what Markov is bringing for the next 2 years, at least, and you would overpay anyway for those defensmen.
  • Habs' young d-men prospects won't match Markov's impact for at least another 2-3 years. So they could be ready when Markov would fade away.
  • A long term contract would probably allow Habs to sign him at a discount in term of cap hit, which would allow to sign a UFA if needed toward the end of the contract.

Of course, I'm willing to sign him 5-6 years ONLY IF THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT DISCOUNT. That's it. If there is no discount, then no more than 3 years.
I believe the Leafs are still paying for Darcy Tucker on their cap. How long ago was it that he was on their roster? You want us to run into the same situation?

Reduced money or not, six years for that guy is nuts.

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11-19-2013, 05:34 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I believe the Leafs are still paying for Darcy Tucker on their cap. How long ago was it that he was on their roster? You want us to run into the same situation?

Reduced money or not, six years for that guy is nuts.
What's your points? Tucker is your lone argumentation and yet I'm crazy? What are your arguments?

Tucker was a crash and bang player. They fade away rather quickly and badly. Markov is all about intelligence. 40 years old defensmen are not that rare. And I perfectly know that he will be done at the end of a 5-6 years contract. Yet he could then be a #6 d-man, second unit PP specialist. And the discount on the cap hit would allow Habs to sign other players, which they wouldn't be able to do if he signs for 3 years at 5M in average.

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11-19-2013, 09:47 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
he'd be on the first pair of 3/4 of the NHL teams, including very good ones.
He might be an aging D-man but in 3 years he will still have some game.

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11-20-2013, 09:24 AM
  #246
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He might be an aging D-man but in 3 years he will still have some game.
That's what I think too. That type of D-man ages rather well. I wasn't convince last year since his reduce speed was worrysome, but he shows this year that he adapted quite well.

5 more years of Markov, even if the last 2 are not so good, wouldn't hurt the Habs much. And the younger d-men would be ready for more responsabilities.

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11-20-2013, 09:49 AM
  #247
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I think 3 years fits in quite well for Markov. You then have PK ( hopefully not a big assumption ) for 8 more, Markov for 3, Emelin for 4 and Gorges for4 more. Lets say Diaz is on for 3 or 4 more. The last spots have to go to the young guys both because we need cheap contracts in there and these guys need to take the next step. As Tinordi is physical and better defensively than Nathan B I would slot him as No. 6. Nathan B is the 7th guy and will get time to play so he can develop his game over the next couple of years as Markovs contract winds down. You also could see Pateryn right there as well. This is an alright D and you could even see about an upgrade, likeliest would be Gorges. For instance, if you wanted the D upgraded to have a contender right now and for the next several years, and were willing to give up some future for that, then you could try doing a Gorges and Nathan B trade for a top 3 player. While the Nucks wouldn't do it because their window is now, they have the kind of player you would do this for in Edler, so Edler for Gorges and Nathan B. Your D would be PK, Edler, Markov, Emelin, Tinordi and Diaz.

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11-20-2013, 10:17 AM
  #248
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I don't think he should take less than his current cap hit; nor do I think he should get a raise.

5.75 per year, two years. Then,

5.75 per year, yearly until he hangs 'em up or leaves for Detroit at age 40.

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11-20-2013, 10:25 AM
  #249
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I don't think he should take less than his current cap hit; nor do I think he should get a raise.

5.75 per year, two years. Then,

5.75 per year, yearly until he hangs 'em up or leaves for Detroit at age 40.
LOL, yeah, where he will then play for another 3 years.

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11-20-2013, 10:42 AM
  #250
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The thing about Markov, even if he declines quite steeply in a couple of years, he can still fill a void similar to Sergei gonchar at the end of his career, as a pp specialist. That's always something that teams will be looking for, so he will have some value regardless.

He will probably want 5 years, the Habs probably want 3, so I'm guessing 4 years is the magical term to get the potential deal on the right track

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