HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Out of Town Thread - LXXI - Everyone is better than us... except the Oilers!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-19-2013, 07:32 PM
  #976
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,040
vCash: 500
Patrick Marleau apparently was in a car crash. No official word on whether he's healthy or injured.

Andy is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:35 PM
  #977
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
In the end...nobody is as sure a candidate than the other. Bergevin had great credentials within one of the best organization in the league. I am high on Benning as I will always belive that the assistant GM has to be in sync with the GM.....I think Chiarelli is great hence I think Benning can't be bad.....but still we don't know he'll do in charge. Just like anybody on your list. As of now, the only difference between your guys and the other guys you named is that....they are not bilingual. Unfortunately for the francos, the league is anglo. So most teams will hire their friends, which most likely will come from something they know, most likely not to be a Q product or a bilingual one. So the pool doesn't end up to be the biggest by talent....ends up being the biggest by friendship.

In the end, you can have 10 incredible candidates to choose from, you'll only pick 1 and chances are....you will have to redo-it in 3-5 years anyway.
If 8 of the 10 incredible candidates aren't bilingual, we can't hire them. It doesn't take rocket science to know that limiting your pool is more restricting and tougher to attain success that widening it. There is 0 justification to do what the habs do in a competitive league. If of the 10 Bergevin's is the best candidate, then so be it, but you won't know until you open the doors to all candidates, whether they are anglophones, francophones allophones or saxophones.

Andy is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:36 PM
  #978
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Buffalo's GM search is aiming at names like Fenton, Botterill, Benning, Treliving...while the Canadiens can only search for guys like Mcguire, Bergevin, Brisebois.

So pathetic.
so, Buffalo is limiting themselves by not looking at guys like McGuire or Brisebois ?

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:36 PM
  #979
hogtownhabsfan*
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 4,727
vCash: 500
Leafs are better than us. They're loaded up front. Kessel, kadri, lupul, JVR....

All four of those guys are probably better than any forward on our roster at the moment.

hogtownhabsfan* is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:41 PM
  #980
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
If 8 of the 10 incredible candidates aren't bilingual, we can't hire them. It doesn't take rocket science to know that limiting your pool is more restricting and tougher to attain success that widening it. There is 0 justification to do what the habs do in a competitive league. If of the 10 Bergevin's is the best candidate, then so be it, but you won't know until you open the doors to all candidates, whether they are anglophones, francophones allophones or saxophones.
you make a list of the ten best candidates and I guarantee you not half of them has a 1st interview with a team (like Buffalo now for example). so what's their reason for limiting themselves too ?

just ask yourself, how many more (than Roy) got an interview with the Avs, and how many more (than Ruff) got an interview with Dallas ?

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:47 PM
  #981
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
If 8 of the 10 incredible candidates aren't bilingual, we can't hire them. It doesn't take rocket science to know that limiting your pool is more restricting and tougher to attain success that widening it. There is 0 justification to do what the habs do in a competitive league. If of the 10 Bergevin's is the best candidate, then so be it, but you won't know until you open the doors to all candidates, whether they are anglophones, francophones allophones or saxophones.
Problem is that it's not a proof either that it will be succesful as EVERYBODY but us have this incredible larger pool to choose from and only the same freakin teams succeed. The justficiation is that we have to deal with the history and the nature that this team has.

What,s funny is that it will surely happen that a francophone happens to be the best candidate. I mean, there are some good coaches in the league and a guy like Houle for example should probably by now by coaching in the AHL. Maybe Ducharme....and Veilleux too. Tourigny should have problaby be considered before Roy called him. And others. Strangely....nobody from any other team one day CLAIMED that their team limited their pool of candidates because they didn't interview the franco one....'Cause it's well know that the franco one can never be the best candidate. 'Cause GM and coach, in the end....what IS the best candidate? When you interview him...what makes him or that guy the best candidate? 'Cause he shares your views? Yep....we saw that with Hawkins and the Alouettes....we CLEARLY went with the best candidate out there instead of going with the "francophone de service" like Chapdeleine, Maciocia or Constantin".....The best candidate was the best for how many games again? GM and coach aren't players. THE BEST CANDIDATE isn't that easy to figure out.

Would be funny to hear that Buffalo would want to talk to Dudley. 'Cause amongst all that great list of candidate...they,d go back to a guy they know and who clearly wasn't able to stop Bergevin to do all those mysterious things....


Last edited by Whitesnake: 11-19-2013 at 07:52 PM.
Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:51 PM
  #982
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Problem is that it's not a proof either that it will be succesful as EVERYBODY but us have this incredible larger pool to choose from and only the same freakin teams succeed. The justficiation is that we have to deal with the history and the nature that this team has.

What,s funny is that it will surely happen that a francophone happens to be the best candidate. I mean, there are some good coaches in the league and a guy like Houle for example should probably by now by coaching in the AHL. Maybe Ducharme....and Veilleux too. Tourigny should have problaby be considered before Roy called him. And others. Strangely....nobody from any other team one day CLAIMED that their team limited their pool of candidates because they didn't interview the franco one....'Cause it's well know that the franco one can never be the best candidate. 'Cause GM and coach, in the end....what IS the best candidate? When you interview him...what makes him or that guy the best candidate? 'Cause he shares your views? Yep....we saw that with Hawkins and the Alouettes....we CLEARLY went with the best candidate out there instead of going with the "francophone de service" like Chapdeleine, Maciocia or Constantin".....The best candidate was the best for how many games again? GM and coach aren't players. THE BEST CANDIDATE isn't that easy to figure out.

Would be funny to hear that Buffalo would want to talk to Bergevin. 'Cause amongst all that great list of candidate...they,d go back to a guy they know and who clearly wasn't able to stop Bergevin to do all those mysterious things....
pretty much, besides, the ONLY reason people are whining is because they know the actual reason why Habs GM is limiting himself while they dont know the reasons why other GMs do the exact same...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:52 PM
  #983
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
so, Buffalo is limiting themselves by not looking at guys like McGuire or Brisebois ?
The difference is McGuire and Brisebois CAN be options, while the others CAN'T be. This is not an argument lol

Andy is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:54 PM
  #984
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The difference is McGuire and Brisebois CAN be options, while the others CAN'T be. This is not an argument lol
Very nice in theory, but in reality, THEY ARE limiting themselves by not interviewing them.

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:55 PM
  #985
akratique
Registered User
 
akratique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Country: Bhutan
Posts: 218
vCash: 500
.....

akratique is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 07:58 PM
  #986
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
The difference is McGuire and Brisebois CAN be options, while the others CAN'T be. This is not an argument lol
But the end result is that THEY are not. Like I said, you and others are frustrated because the "limit" that this team put on itself is well known while a "limit" is also on every other team....but you don't openly know it. There are limits everywhere. You don't like our reason for doing it. Fine. No problem with that. End result is that everybody do it for different reasons.

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:18 PM
  #987
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Very nice in theory, but in reality, THEY ARE limiting themselves by not interviewing them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But the end result is that THEY are not. Like I said, you and others are frustrated because the "limit" that this team put on itself is well known while a "limit" is also on every other team....but you don't openly know it. There are limits everywhere. You don't like our reason for doing it. Fine. No problem with that. End result is that everybody do it for different reasons.
Maybe because they are not qualified enough? The fact is they can be. Botterill, Benning, Fenton and Treliving cannot be interviewed or cannot get a job, while McGure, Brisebois and other francophones can be.

How you do not understand this is insane and very very sad.

The end result is 20 years of mediocrity following our restrictions. Fenton, Botterill, Benning, Treviling have all been apart of well-runned organizations. Outside of Bergevin, the guys we interviewed, McGuire has done squat in the nhl for over 20 years, Damphousse has had no extended positions. Brisebois was already part of this organization.


Last edited by Andy: 11-19-2013 at 08:26 PM.
Andy is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:31 PM
  #988
Macbeth
Registered User
 
Macbeth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Petite-Patrie, Qc
Country: Canada
Posts: 542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Maybe because they are not qualified enough? The fact is they can be. Botterill, Benning, Fenton and Treliving cannot be interviewed or cannot get a job, while McGure, Brisebois and other francophones can be.

How you do not understand this is insane and very very sad.

The end result is 20 years of mediocrity following our restrictions. Fenton, Botterill, Benning, Treviling have all been apart of well-runned organizations. Outside of Bergevin, the guys we interviewed, McGuire has done squat in the nhl for over 20 years, Damphousse has had no extended positions. Brisebois was already part of this organization.
Dude, the Canadiens's GM job was offered to Jim Nill who turned it down. He is now managing the Stars. Jim Nill speaks french like I speak urdu.

The french bullcrap is just that, french bullcrap. It's vanilla bigotry. Flush it out of your system with a ten kilometre bike ride and move onto something interesting.

Macbeth is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:33 PM
  #989
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Maybe because they are not qualified enough? The fact is they can be. Botterill, Benning, Fenton and Treliving cannot be interviewed or cannot get a job, while McGure, Brisebois and other francophones can be.

How you do not understand this is insane and very very sad.

The end result is 20 years of mediocrity following our restrictions. Fenton, Botterill, Benning, Treviling have all been apart of well-runned organizations. Outside of Bergevin, the guys we interviewed, McGuire has done squat in the nhl for over 20 years, Damphousse has had no extended positions. Brisebois was already part of this organization.
how would they know, they're not even looking at their resume...

so, what's the reason for them to limit themselves ?

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:34 PM
  #990
Et le But
Moderator
 
Et le But's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York
Country: Argentina
Posts: 17,648
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Leafs are better than us. They're loaded up front. Kessel, kadri, lupul, JVR....

All four of those guys are probably better than any forward on our roster at the moment.
I still can't believe the Leafs got JVR for Luke ****ing Schenn.

Holmgren is such an idiot.

Et le But is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:51 PM
  #991
hockeyfan2k11
Registered User
 
hockeyfan2k11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 9,130
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
But the end result is that THEY are not. Like I said, you and others are frustrated because the "limit" that this team put on itself is well known while a "limit" is also on every other team....but you don't openly know it. There are limits everywhere. You don't like our reason for doing it. Fine. No problem with that. End result is that everybody do it for different reasons.
C'mon man. Why is this even a debate? No matter how much you try to dress it up it's downright silly. Every team should go after the best candidate period. When "language" is more important than winning then you deserve to lose.

Best coach or GM in the leauge would never be considered by the Habs if they do not speak French. So winning is not the #1 goal.


Last edited by hockeyfan2k11: 11-19-2013 at 08:56 PM.
hockeyfan2k11 is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:53 PM
  #992
LaTenderness
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Peterborough
Posts: 626
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Leafs are better than us. They're loaded up front. Kessel, kadri, lupul, JVR....

All four of those guys are probably better than any forward on our roster at the moment.
That's pathetic

Thrill Kessel is special but to say the other 3 goofs are better then anyone we have is ****in sad and looks like a cry for attention

LaTenderness is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:53 PM
  #993
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Maybe because they are not qualified enough? The fact is they can be. Botterill, Benning, Fenton and Treliving cannot be interviewed or cannot get a job, while McGure, Brisebois and other francophones can be.

How you do not understand this is insane and very very sad.

The end result is 20 years of mediocrity following our restrictions. Fenton, Botterill, Benning, Treviling have all been apart of well-runned organizations. Outside of Bergevin, the guys we interviewed, McGuire has done squat in the nhl for over 20 years, Damphousse has had no extended positions. Brisebois was already part of this organization.
Not sure why you say that I don't understand that we are limiting the pool...I keep saying it. What I also say is that every other team does it too with their own type of limitations and how you don't see it is also sad. And to put our 20 years of mediocrity solely on the fact that the francos ****ed it up during that stint is extremely narrow minded. Stint that saw us have Julien and Vigneault as coaches, that goes beyond the language. That while I don,t believe in Therrien now, he deserved his first chance when it happened...and deserved to be tried again when Pittsburgh did it. That for every ex-player that tried the experience, nothing suggest that Carbonneau was that bad of a choice when it happened. That after the Houle debacle, André Savard started to make this team look more respectacle. And to this day, I still believe he didn't have enough time to show what he could do. That when Gainey was appointed it made TOTAL sense. He stayed too long and end up not being too good.....but it was well worth it. That today, guys like Hartley aren't doing too bad for themselves and so on.

But no....let's talk about how they are the sole responsible of this mediocrity. Let's not talk about the repeated bad picks in the 1st round or the letdown that some players had and so on. 'Cause CLEARLY it has been proven that EVERY OTHER TEAM has had success but us. And the only reason for that is because they didn't limit themselves at a limited pool. Hey how about this.....since Gainey came in, we've "limited" the number of francophones that plays for this team.....could that be the problem? Did we limit ourselves to NOT pick locals for "stupid" reasons like too much attention and too much press interviews"? If your "limitations of GM and coaches have only been franco, hence the drought....can I say that the lack of locals also could have been a reason? Did we limit ourselves? Did Trevor "limited" himself to the US too much?

Besides...we have NO IDEA who exactly was interviewed. As we have NO IDEA who in this league could be bilingual enough to get an interview.

By the way....I'd have no problem to get an anglo GM as I will always believe it's the most important, with the head scouting job, the most important in an organization. But I also understand why they'd be doing everything they can to find a GM that can also relate to the fans. And if they can't, I,m expecting to see them hire an anglo only.....yet....coaching will always be bilingual. Is going with the franco only mean we might end up picking not that great of a choice? Surely....we did with Therrien. Yet....we would have went Roy...or even Hartley and it would have been MUCH better. And going anglo only means so much....see Cunneyworth. We had Lever in Hamilton.....did he happen to find a NHL job yet? 'Cause some people in here, for the sake of NOT going with a bilingual coach, asked for Lever...how is he doing in the NHL so far?


Last edited by Whitesnake: 11-19-2013 at 09:02 PM.
Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:53 PM
  #994
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
C'mon man. Why is this even a debate? No matter how much you try to dress it up it's downright silly.
care to tell us what exactly the reason for Buffalo to limit themself ?

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:55 PM
  #995
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
C'mon man. Why is this even a debate? No matter how much you try to dress it up it's downright silly.
Oh the "I don't agree with you hence it's silly" comment.....Typical. Don't worry though, I'm not going to debate it with you.

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:57 PM
  #996
Whitesnake
Habs of steel
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,468
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
care to tell us what exactly the reason for Buffalo to limit themself ?
Andy told you. They are not limiting themselves...they just feel the candidates they don't interview aren't qualified enough. And since the "qualifications" for a GM is so obvious, hence the reason why every team have had their GM for 15 years and each and every one of them have won 5 cups.....(Yeah, I know...maths was never my best class...)

Whitesnake is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 08:59 PM
  #997
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Andy told you. They are not limiting themselves...they just feel the candidates they don't interview aren't qualified enough. And since the "qualifications" for a GM is so obvious, hence the reason why every team have had their GM for 15 years and each and every one of them have won 5 cups.....(Yeah, I know...maths was never my best class...)
Expect that the qualifications probably have to do with hockey related reasons. Language isn't one, yet we make it one.

Andy is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 09:01 PM
  #998
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Expect that the qualifications probably have to do with hockey related reasons. Language isn't one, yet we make it one.
Avs hire former Avs player P. Roy and former Avs player J. Sakic...

Buffalo hire former Sabres player Lafontaine and former Sabres coach Nolan...


and their thought process was 100% hockey related...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 09:05 PM
  #999
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Avs hire former Avs player P. Roy and former Avs player J. Sakic...

Buffalo hire former Sabres player Lafontaine and former Sabres coach Nolan...


and their thought process was 100% hockey related...
So essentially other teams can hire both Francos and Anglos, but Montreal can't.

What is your argument? Because you appear to have none, I'm not surprised because it's a stupid debate.

Andy is offline  
Old
11-19-2013, 09:06 PM
  #1000
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
So essentially other teams can hire both Francos and Anglos, but Montreal can't.

What is your argument? Because you appear to have none, I'm not surprised because it's a stupid debate.
re-read my post a few times, you may get it...

ECWHSWI is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.