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Old
11-19-2013, 10:14 PM
  #351
Ugene Malkin
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Originally Posted by Rob Scuderi View Post
Which is why I said nothing about either. We have a garbage 4th line who never gains possession, when someone like Glass who is part of that, can actually win board battles with talented players who gain possession you have something Tangradi wasn't capable of.
Tangradi was being transformed into something he never was, "a top six power forward."

They tore him down and built him up as a complete headcase. They should have just let him play his game and the 3rd line might have been a mainstay for him. This team totally screwed up this kids thinking of how he should play to how he's naturally been playing and should of been let to play. You could see it on the ice where at times he was just clueless where they wanted him to be, what he should do, ect....

Mr.Burgandy is right, he was actually decent on the wall and at times controlled the puck for good bits there. It's what do you do from there once he passes it off he lost track of, or just didn't know where to be. It should have been obvious, get to the net every single time. He actually seemed glued to the boards, if you ask me.

Enough of that, though, what it proves is this team should never tear down gifted forwards. Let them be and enhance them as you can along the way.

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11-19-2013, 10:37 PM
  #352
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Interestingly, Mark Letestu only has 1 goal through 20 games so far this year.

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11-19-2013, 10:45 PM
  #353
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Interestingly, Mark Letestu only has 1 goal through 20 games so far this year.
James Wisniewski interestingly leads the CBJ's in scoring.

That team is a bunch of misfits jumbled together, Letestu is playing 3rd line RW.

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11-19-2013, 10:59 PM
  #354
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Too often we take prospects and expect too much. The Kevin Stevens of the NHL are quite rare.

Caputi was never going anywhere. Tangradi sucked and had FAR too much hype surrounding him. Guy never stood a chance. Letestu and Jeffrey had their chances but just couldn't make enough of an impact. It happens. Same for Strait and Lovejoy.

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11-19-2013, 11:22 PM
  #355
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I mean, if Caputi and Tangradi were so good, shouldn't they be panning out elsewhere? Caputi has 4 goals in Sweden's 2nd division... and Tangradi isn't even an every day player for Winnipeg. Or do you actually think that the Penguins developmental system is so bad it ruined them as players? In which case I'll probably just block you.
Have you watched any WPG games? Tangradi looks good as a 3rd liner and spends about 90% of his time in the Ozone with his ass in the goalies face, something no Pens seems to be able to do.

He was horribly managed here. DB should have been giving him bottom 6 min over guys like Park, Glass and Connor.

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11-20-2013, 03:07 AM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Tangradi was being transformed into something he never was, "a top six power forward."

They tore him down and built him up as a complete headcase. They should have just let him play his game and the 3rd line might have been a mainstay for him. This team totally screwed up this kids thinking of how he should play to how he's naturally been playing and should of been let to play. You could see it on the ice where at times he was just clueless where they wanted him to be, what he should do, ect....

Mr.Burgandy is right, he was actually decent on the wall and at times controlled the puck for good bits there. It's what do you do from there once he passes it off he lost track of, or just didn't know where to be. It should have been obvious, get to the net every single time. He actually seemed glued to the boards, if you ask me.

Enough of that, though, what it proves is this team should never tear down gifted forwards. Let them be and enhance them as you can along the way.
I seriously think the Pens ruined that kid's potential to the point where he's a lost cause. It's sad really.

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11-20-2013, 06:50 AM
  #357
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Don't recall Caputi or Tangradi ever playing "extremely well" as Penguins. And Vitale's always been the same. You don't have enough examples for this to be considered a "thing" IMO.
I believe Caputi scored on one of his first shifts.. a gritty, crash-the-net kinda goal. He looked really good that game. Then was gone.

I'm not even counting defensemen yet.. theres plenty of those too.

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11-20-2013, 06:53 AM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Have you watched any WPG games? Tangradi looks good as a 3rd liner and spends about 90% of his time in the Ozone with his ass in the goalies face, something no Pens seems to be able to do.
Yet he's been a healthy scratch 4 times.

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Old
11-20-2013, 07:23 AM
  #359
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I believe Caputi scored on one of his first shifts.. a gritty, crash-the-net kinda goal. He looked really good that game. Then was gone.

I'm not even counting defensemen yet.. theres plenty of those too.
so he had one good game when he was running on adrenaline.

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Old
11-20-2013, 07:32 AM
  #360
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I seriously think the Pens ruined that kid's potential to the point where he's a lost cause. It's sad really.
The only person to blame for Tangradi is Tangradi. He brought absolutley nothing when he played here. The end.

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11-20-2013, 07:43 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by SEALBound View Post
Too often we take prospects and expect too much. The Kevin Stevens of the NHL are quite rare.

Caputi was never going anywhere. Tangradi sucked and had FAR too much hype surrounding him. Guy never stood a chance. Letestu and Jeffrey had their chances but just couldn't make enough of an impact. It happens. Same for Strait and Lovejoy.
Having a chance as a young player and making a couple of mistakes is 100% normal. Getting benched for every single one of these growing pains is not. As long as the players are still a net positive, then they are still contributing AND getting better. Almost all of the players talked about were still a net positive IMO, or <10 games into a slump before all "hope was lost".

You cannot "develop" anything without dealing with the mistakes or problems and trying to solve them. Nothing is perfect the first time, but our coaching staff expects it to be, and seems unwilling to invest the coaching effort in young players. They much rather take the easy way out, and play the veterans that don't make obvious mistakes but never do anything "obvious" to help this team win.

I refuse to accept that Letestu and DJ couldn't make more of an impact than Asham, Rupp, Adams, Glass, or any other no talent 4th liner this team has employed and chose to keep over them.

Lovejoy is probably the most talented player we lost to being Bylsma-ed, followed by TK, then either Letestu/DJ depending on how well DJ plays in DAL. I get a smile when SJS use TK as a PKer. Holding onto these type of players solves many of the depth issues this team currently has.

When was the last time we waived a true 4th liner? Never. If you are a 3rd liner in a slump, don't let the door hit you in the ass (even though you are still out producing our 4th liners).

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11-20-2013, 07:43 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by WheresRamziAbid View Post
The only person to blame for Tangradi is Tangradi. He brought absolutley nothing when he played here. The end.
I agree. He is probably the only player I agree with letting go. He only has his size going for him. Strait wasn't much of an issue either IMO. Pens just have way more talented D-men in the pipe than him.

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11-20-2013, 07:56 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Having a chance as a young player and making a couple of mistakes is 100% normal. Getting benched for every single one of these growing pains is not. As long as the players are still a net positive, then they are still contributing AND getting better. Almost all of the players talked about were still a net positive IMO, or <10 games into a slump before all "hope was lost".

You cannot "develop" anything without dealing with the mistakes or problems and trying to solve them. Nothing is perfect the first time, but our coaching staff expects it to be, and seems unwilling to invest the coaching effort in young players. They much rather take the easy way out, and play the veterans that don't make obvious mistakes but never do anything "obvious" to help this team win.

I refuse to accept that Letestu and DJ couldn't make more of an impact than Asham, Rupp, Adams, Glass, or any other no talent 4th liner this team has employed and chose to keep over them.

Lovejoy is probably the most talented player we lost to being Bylsma-ed, followed by TK, then either Letestu/DJ depending on how well DJ plays in DAL. I get a smile when SJS use TK as a PKer. Holding onto these type of players solves many of the depth issues this team currently has.

When was the last time we waived a true 4th liner? Never. If you are a 3rd liner in a slump, don't let the door hit you in the ass (even though you are still out producing our 4th liners).
The simple fact that Lovejoy is the most talented player that has been "Bylsma-ed" hurts your argumrnt far more than it helps it. Not saying he is a bad player but he would be at best our 8th best defenseman.

Also 3rd and 4th liners are different roles the guy that is ousted from a 3rd line role (Letestu/Jeffery/Kennedy) is usually not suited for a 4th line role. If you have any argument for a younger guy on the 4th line its Sill.

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11-20-2013, 08:17 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by WheresRamziAbid View Post
The simple fact that Lovejoy is the most talented player that has been "Bylsma-ed" hurts your argumrnt far more than it helps it. Not saying he is a bad player but he would be at best our 8th best defenseman.

Also 3rd and 4th liners are different roles the guy that is ousted from a 3rd line role (Letestu/Jeffery/Kennedy) is usually not suited for a 4th line role. If you have any argument for a younger guy on the 4th line its Sill.
You have been "Bylsma thinking" tainted by constantly following this team, Root Sports, this media, etc. Not your fault. "Roles" is certainly a term that Bylsma would use to "limit" his young player's potential or to keep them from stealing one of his pet's jobs.

It is amazing all of the new "roles" these cast offs find on other teams, isn't it?

BTW, Lovejoy is #1 on the Ducks in Goals Against / 20min ice time over the last 2 years.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...20&sortdir=ASC

And #2 in Goals for % (basically a +- indicator) at 55.6% of the goals scored are for the Ducks when he's on the ice.

He also leads them in shots/for/against
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Ducks aren't exactly a bad team either for him to getting these results on. If you are judging Lovejoy only by his time here, then you are not judging him fairly. I'd personally rather have him over Orpik and save that cap money that Orpik costs us. Lovejoy is an incredible value considering his cap hit.

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Old
11-20-2013, 08:41 AM
  #365
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
You have been "Bylsma thinking" tainted by constantly following this team, Root Sports, this media, etc. Not your fault. "Roles" is certainly a term that Bylsma would use to "limit" his young player's potential or to keep them from stealing one of his pet's jobs.

It is amazing all of the new "roles" these cast offs find on other teams, isn't it?

BTW, Lovejoy is #1 on the Ducks in Goals Against / 20min ice time over the last 2 years.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...20&sortdir=ASC

And #2 in Goals for % (basically a +- indicator) at 55.6% of the goals scored are for the Ducks when he's on the ice.

He also leads them in shots/for/against
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...T&sortdir=DESC

Ducks aren't exactly a bad team either for him to getting these results on. If you are judging Lovejoy only by his time here, then you are not judging him fairly. I'd personally rather have him over Orpik and save that cap money that Orpik costs us. Lovejoy is an incredible value considering his cap hit.
OMG get over yourself. Every team has roles and role players. Sorry its not NHL14.

Which of these players that have been Blysma-ed" have gone to great success? Lovejoy is the best example and he admitted himself that he wasn't very good here in our breakout system. Strait is a 6th d man maybe. Tangradi is a warm body on a bad team.

But of course every prospect is a shiny new toy thats guarenteed to succeed. Maybe just maybe the Pens have a couple of expert hockey people that get to watch these guys day in and day out and might just know a little bit more about who is and isnt a good fit here. And god forbid that maybe just maybe the player that were "ruined" my this management team were just not that good in the first place.

But then again im talking to the type of guy that probably want Hartzell to be the full time starter next year along with an all rookie defensive core.

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11-20-2013, 08:59 AM
  #366
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Same goes for anyone who think Jayson Megna or Brian Gibbons etc are better hockey player right now than Pascal Dupuis. I admit he isnt a prototypical top 6 forwardand any team would be better off with him as a thrid liner but to suggest that either of these pint sized rookies deserve more minutes and better linemates than DUpuis are insane.

Last i checked Dupuis has scored 0.72 points per game over the last 3 years (with a variety of different linemates), forchecks, plays good defense, kills penalties, and has only missed 2 games in the last 5 seasons all at the NHL level. And people really want to replace that with fringy prospects when this team is a legit cup contender.

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11-20-2013, 09:21 AM
  #367
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The only person to blame for Tangradi is Tangradi. He brought absolutley nothing when he played here. The end.
Wrong. The end.

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11-20-2013, 09:26 AM
  #368
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Wrong. The end.


Yes you are wrong. He doesn't have NHL speed; you can't fix that.

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11-20-2013, 09:32 AM
  #369
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Wrong. The end.
Sure ok, it was a conspiracy in Pittsburgh to destroy him. Funny how he is still soft and slow in Winnipeg. Hmmmmmmm.

I guess personal accountability is out the window now, all player failures fall totally on the shoulders of management.

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11-20-2013, 09:50 AM
  #370
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Sure ok, it was a conspiracy in Pittsburgh to destroy him. Funny how he is still soft and slow in Winnipeg. Hmmmmmmm.

I guess personal accountability is out the window now, all player failures fall totally on the shoulders of management.
Good way to make yourself sound like an idiot by starting the conspiracy theory argument. You're wrong. Get over it. There's literally nothing else to say.

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11-20-2013, 09:53 AM
  #371
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Just let the Big Dog eat already

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11-20-2013, 09:56 AM
  #372
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Good way to make yourself sound like an idiot by starting the conspiracy theory argument. You're wrong. Get over it. There's literally nothing else to say.
Please show how his development was derailed in Pittsburgh. If its so obvious it shouldnt be hard.

The simplest answer is usually the correct answer. If you cant follow the simplest answer is that a bad player is just a bad player. But keep on making excuses for him your really good at it. Its always someone elses fault.

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11-20-2013, 10:03 AM
  #373
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Please show how his development was derailed in Pittsburgh. If its so obvious it shouldnt be hard.

The simplest answer is usually the correct answer. If you cant follow the simplest answer is that a bad player is just a bad player. But keep on making excuses for him your really good at it. Its always someone elses fault.
I think it can be a mixture of both and in this case, I believe that to be true. Tangradi absolutely didn't do enough to force the coach's hand into playing him more. He didn't crash and bang like he should have on the 4th line to get consistent ice time (although that's really not his game, but yeah). That said, this team's expectations for a rookie are too high and unrealistic in order to get consistent playing time IMO. From my perspective, it looks like you have to play damn near mistake free hockey to get a role (Maatta). That's just not realistic.

I just want to know when we can stop talking about him though

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11-20-2013, 10:06 AM
  #374
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I mean that 12 points in 100 games just screams NHL talent.

It seems that getting out of the toxic Pittsburgh environment has really upped his game to a 0.127 points per game average. This is obviously a development and not a talent issue.

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11-20-2013, 10:09 AM
  #375
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I think it can be a mixture of both and in this case, I believe that to be true. Tangradi absolutely didn't do enough to force the coach's hand into playing him more. He didn't crash and bang like he should have on the 4th line to get consistent ice time (although that's really not his game, but yeah). That said, this team's expectations for a rookie are too high and unrealistic in order to get consistent playing time IMO. From my perspective, it looks like you have to play damn near mistake free hockey to get a role (Maatta). That's just not realistic.

I just want to know when we can stop talking about him though
Im not saying that Bylsma isnt a bit hard on young players and their ice time (cough Despres cough), but that is not the reason Tangradi still hasnt been successful in the NHL. Its because Tangradi s*cks compared to other NHL players.

For christs sake Derek Engellend has shown more ability as an NHL forward than Tangradi has. Thats pathetic.


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