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Nathan MacKinnon - Rookie Season

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11-13-2013, 01:48 PM
  #101
henchman24
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Originally Posted by the_fan View Post
Or maybe letting Mac play against top 4 d-men and with skilled linemates game in game out would be better for him.

Maybe we see it differently, but what I see is Mac struggling to do things on his own every time he steps on the ice. He always wants and has the puck, but he doesn't have anyone who can score to pass it to so he struggles trying to do everything by himself.

Yet he still has 10 points. I think he's ready for a 2nd line role. But yeah, I would hate to mess with the chemistry on that line with Stastny.

If Stastny keeps playing the way he's been playing Avs should keep him, but I don't want Mac to play another full year on the 3rd line.

Like a said, tough decisions to be made soon.
I just don't think there is a reason to rush MacKinnon into the 2nd line role when the team doesn't need it. That line might produce more offensively (I have my doubts, but am willing to concede that thought), but would give up more goals. In essence I don't think it makes the team better.

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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I don't think they should move Stastny down the depth chart because he and Duchene have been the Avs best players.

That said I think Nate would make a great line with Landy and Tangs. That line wouldn't have the same role it does with Staz, it would be more offensive and a McGinn-Staz-Talbot line would be the matchup defensive line.

Like I said though you can't mess with Staz right now, he's playing too well. This is where the three center approach is starting to show it's difficulties and Mack hasn't even taken the next step in his development yet. He needs more skilled linemates, and there just aren't enough. Trading Downie and moving PAP off his line just made it worse.

At some point, probably by at at least next season, Nate will have to take over that role in between guys like Landy and Tangs. There's just no other way to do it. They can't leave him on a line with muckers like McGinn and Talbot. WHo knows how that will effect Stastny's production. That's the dilema.
I think there are plenty of ways to continue the 3 line setup if the Avs want to continue down that path (I don't think that they do personally). Doing something like this next year would still equate to 3 great lines:

ROR-Duchene-PAP
Landy-Stastny-Talbot/UFA/Rookie (obviously the shutdown line, but still has talent to put up points)
McGinn-MacKinnon-Tanguay (used as a sheltered offensive line)

That balances out the scoring quite nicely, and when injuries hit it could be condensed into a top 6 or maybe Agozzino/Sgarbossa/Smith/Bourke/etc are able to step into a role on the wing.

Now if the Avs don't want 3 scoring lines, long-term either Stastny is gone or converts to the wing. MacKinnon will not be the player converted to wing. Right now (and maybe for a year or two) he will play more wing because he isn't strong enough physically, doesn't play good enough defense, and is weak on faceoffs. Those will all come in time, and he will take over a top 6 center role when Roy determines he is ready. Playing occasionally on the wing isn't unusual for a young, highly talented center.

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11-13-2013, 03:49 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I just don't think there is a reason to rush MacKinnon into the 2nd line role when the team doesn't need it. That line might produce more offensively (I have my doubts, but am willing to concede that thought), but would give up more goals. In essence I don't think it makes the team better.



I think there are plenty of ways to continue the 3 line setup if the Avs want to continue down that path (I don't think that they do personally). Doing something like this next year would still equate to 3 great lines:

ROR-Duchene-PAP
Landy-Stastny-Talbot/UFA/Rookie (obviously the shutdown line, but still has talent to put up points)
McGinn-MacKinnon-Tanguay (used as a sheltered offensive line)

That balances out the scoring quite nicely, and when injuries hit it could be condensed into a top 6 or maybe Agozzino/Sgarbossa/Smith/Bourke/etc are able to step into a role on the wing.

Now if the Avs don't want 3 scoring lines, long-term either Stastny is gone or converts to the wing. MacKinnon will not be the player converted to wing. Right now (and maybe for a year or two) he will play more wing because he isn't strong enough physically, doesn't play good enough defense, and is weak on faceoffs. Those will all come in time, and he will take over a top 6 center role when Roy determines he is ready. Playing occasionally on the wing isn't unusual for a young, highly talented center.
I think adding another skilled winger would help if they want to continue the three line approach, but I still don't think it will work as well as hoped. It's not just about linemates, it's also the role. I don't think MacKinnon has been in that go to role, and he hasn't felt the burning to be the guy to put up points. Once he had that good PP shift, and he saw the confidence in him to be THE guy and go get a goal when he was put on Stastny's line, he really picked it up. He needs that role, the same way Duchene needs it, and at some point they will give it to him.

That will push Staz back into a similar situation as Nate now where he just doesn't have to score much, so he won't feel that pressure. He'll be primarily a defensive guy, playing with less talented linemates, and it will likely culminate in him just playing a simple game and not producing at the near PPG rate he is now.

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11-13-2013, 04:04 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I think adding another skilled winger would help if they want to continue the three line approach, but I still don't think it will work as well as hoped. It's not just about linemates, it's also the role. I don't think MacKinnon has been in that go to role, and he hasn't felt the burning to be the guy to put up points. Once he had that good PP shift, and he saw the confidence in him to be THE guy and go get a goal when he was put on Stastny's line, he really picked it up. He needs that role, the same way Duchene needs it, and at some point they will give it to him.

That will push Staz back into a similar situation as Nate now where he just doesn't have to score much, so he won't feel that pressure. He'll be primarily a defensive guy, playing with less talented linemates, and it will likely culminate in him just playing a simple game and not producing at the near PPG rate he is now.
I don't really disagree. I don't think Stastny's role would change much though (in the 3 line setup, providing he stays). He is the shutdown center and is paired with a player also with great 2 way ability in Landeskog right now and that is pretty much the role he would be in later. They don't get many offensive zone starts, and they play against the toughest competition. Stastny is currently getting ~42% offensive zone starts, there are probably less than 3 other top 6 centers that are pulling that sort of defensive role... Backes and Little are probably the only two if I had to guess. What I am saying is that he is kind of already in a 3rd line role, just with very good 2 way linemates and more minutes.

As long as we run the 3 line setup and there are no injuries to Stastny and Landy, I don't think those two will be separated for a while. Talbot and Tangs could be switched to give MacKinnon's line a more offensive presence and it would would only improve the defense on the Landy-Stastny line.

Then seeing how on the PP the Avs tend to use 4 forwards, everybody except Talbot could see consistent PP time.

MacKinnon and Stastny may not produce as many individual points as they would if they were the set #2 center, but I would bet their line's goals combined would be better than a MacKinnon + Talbot 2/3 center combo.

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11-13-2013, 04:10 PM
  #104
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Starting to get happy feet.

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11-13-2013, 04:12 PM
  #105
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Dunno if that's a "happy feet" expression...

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11-13-2013, 04:55 PM
  #106
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O'Reilly-Duchene-Parenteau
Landeskog-Stastny-Talbot
McGinn-MacKinnon-Tanguay

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11-14-2013, 09:56 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I don't really disagree. I don't think Stastny's role would change much though (in the 3 line setup, providing he stays). He is the shutdown center and is paired with a player also with great 2 way ability in Landeskog right now and that is pretty much the role he would be in later. They don't get many offensive zone starts, and they play against the toughest competition. Stastny is currently getting ~42% offensive zone starts, there are probably less than 3 other top 6 centers that are pulling that sort of defensive role... Backes and Little are probably the only two if I had to guess.
turris, bergeron and staal.

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Old
11-14-2013, 10:16 AM
  #108
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turris, bergeron and staal.
So 6 total out of 30 teams. That shows the unusual use of a top 6 center.

Speaking of Turris, he has been awesome this year. I've been really impressed with him.

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11-14-2013, 11:37 AM
  #109
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So 6 total out of 30 teams. That shows the unusual use of a top 6 center.

Speaking of Turris, he has been awesome this year. I've been really impressed with him.
better than spezza.

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11-14-2013, 11:43 AM
  #110
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absolute proof Phoenix has no clue how to develop forwards.

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11-14-2013, 11:51 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by avsman View Post
O'Reilly-Duchene-Parenteau
Landeskog-Stastny-Talbot
McGinn-MacKinnon-Tanguay
He could be good on that line actually. I feel like we'll see line changes throughout the year.

I'm not a huge Talbot fan, but with the forechecking skill he's showed thus far that might actually work well.

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11-14-2013, 02:08 PM
  #112
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Loved Roy's answer to MacKinnon staying at center. This might be a bit paraphrased, but tired to quote as best as I possibly could (substitute h's with '):

It's funny because it is a question I always like because the way were are playing everybody needs to play their man. The center is only on faceoffs and after everybody needs to play their position. I mean if you're the first guy coming back you are the guy that has to play down low. It could be a right winger, it could be a left winger, it doesn't really matter to be honest with you. I mean he was flying, he was skating so well, he had so much energy in the last game against Carolina that I put him back with Paul and Landy and they were dangerous for the remainder of the game. Tonight I am going to start him on the right side with these two guys, and we will see how it goes. I mean if he has the same jump I am going to keep him there. If not I am going to bring McGinn back. I'm going to play a lot with the lines for a bit until Tanguay is back and we will see how it goes. One point that I really liked was Duchene with MacKinnon, you have no idea on how fast that was. It was scary for the other team. This is something I may give a shot at some point too.

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11-20-2013, 10:24 AM
  #113
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I feel like MacKinnon has not been very successful carrying the puck into the zone thus far. Defensemen are doing a good job controlling his speed for the most part. I think all of his goals have come when he's in the slot and gets fed the puck.

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11-20-2013, 10:59 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Foppa Frossa View Post
I feel like MacKinnon has not been very successful carrying the puck into the zone thus far. Defensemen are doing a good job controlling his speed for the most part. I think all of his goals have come when he's in the slot and gets fed the puck.
That will change. He's an 18 year old rookie who's speed and quickness probably cant be matched by anyone else in the league. He has the hands, shot and IQ but it's just kind of raw right now. When he starts figuring out what works the kid is going to be a star. The tools are there, it's just going to take time to learn when and how to use them.

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11-20-2013, 11:00 AM
  #115
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I feel like MacKinnon has not been very successful carrying the puck into the zone thus far. Defensemen are doing a good job controlling his speed for the most part. I think all of his goals have come when he's in the slot and gets fed the puck.
I thought he entered the zone decently when he was only up against one or two defenders. It became a problem when there was 3 or more Hawks in front of him.

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11-20-2013, 11:37 AM
  #116
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That will change. He's an 18 year old rookie who's speed and quickness probably cant be matched by anyone else in the league. He has the hands, shot and IQ but it's just kind of raw right now. When he starts figuring out what works the kid is going to be a star. The tools are there, it's just going to take time to learn when and how to use them.
Exactly this. Young players will go through growing pains, that's just how it is. We've seen it with Duchene, we've seen it with Landeskog and now we're seeing it with MacK.

The best part is, MacK will probably be the better player of that group too, which is both exciting and hockey-erection inducing.

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11-20-2013, 11:48 AM
  #117
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He has looked great in last 5 games. Better than before for sure. He's just starting to get more comfortable and he's going to be star in NHL, no question in my mind.

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11-20-2013, 11:49 AM
  #118
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my face when we score.

Mack has been an absolute stud.

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11-20-2013, 12:39 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Foppa Frossa View Post
I feel like MacKinnon has not been very successful carrying the puck into the zone thus far. Defensemen are doing a good job controlling his speed for the most part. I think all of his goals have come when he's in the slot and gets fed the puck.
He really needs to work on his puck carrying skills at top speeds because every time he throws the Millennium Falcon in the dust during light speed, the puck is all over the place; bouncing everywhere.

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11-20-2013, 01:18 PM
  #120
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He really needs to work on his puck carrying skills at top speeds because every time he throws the Millennium Falcon in the dust during light speed, the puck is all over the place; bouncing everywhere.
Because he's moving so fast the ice is melting all around him.

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11-20-2013, 02:17 PM
  #121
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Speaking of the puck bouncing, why in hell is the Pepsi Center ice so freakin' bad right now? I don't ever remember seeing the puck bounce all over the ice like it does the minute it hits anywhere near the neutral zone. When even O'Reilly is having trouble corralling it you know it has to be bad.

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11-20-2013, 02:23 PM
  #122
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They had a concert there last week, maybe that's part of the reason?

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11-20-2013, 02:51 PM
  #123
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Speaking of the puck bouncing, why in hell is the Pepsi Center ice so freakin' bad right now? I don't ever remember seeing the puck bounce all over the ice like it does the minute it hits anywhere near the neutral zone. When even O'Reilly is having trouble corralling it you know it has to be bad.
I have been wondering the same thing. I thought we have traditionally had pretty good ice here in Denver....but like you said the puck is everywhere

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11-20-2013, 02:57 PM
  #124
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Avs are 9-3 at home, I believe, stop complaining.

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11-20-2013, 03:42 PM
  #125
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Michael Buble will smooth it out tonight with his voice.

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