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Markov wants to stay in Montreal and wants one more contract

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Old
11-20-2013, 10:51 AM
  #251
Agnostic
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Markov - 4 years @ $6.5M

Get ready for it.

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11-20-2013, 12:33 PM
  #252
Blind Gardien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Markov - 4 years @ $6.5M

Get ready for it.
I'm getting ready for 3 years @ $6.0M.

The Habs do tend to come up with numbers bigger than I'm ready for, though. (Except for Subban-numbers, of course.) I could live with 4 years @ $6.5M. So far this year he's worth $6.5M. I'm just worried about whether he can keep that up all of this year. And even if he can, what happens in the final years of that deal? I'd be skeptical. But still happy to have Markov locked up, either way.

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11-20-2013, 12:37 PM
  #253
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I'm getting ready for 3 years @ $6.0M.

The Habs do tend to come up with numbers bigger than I'm ready for, though. (Except for Subban-numbers, of course.) I could live with 4 years @ $6.5M. So far this year he's worth $6.5M. I'm just worried about whether he can keep that up all of this year. And even if he can, what happens in the final years of that deal? I'd be skeptical. But still happy to have Markov locked up, either way.
If that happens I will be very pissed. I don't think he's a 6.5 million dollar guy even now. Four years from now? Yikes...

And if we sign him for that amount, what the hell do we sign Subban for?
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
The thing about Markov, even if he declines quite steeply in a couple of years, he can still fill a void similar to Sergei gonchar at the end of his career, as a pp specialist. That's always something that teams will be looking for, so he will have some value regardless.
You mean like Thomas Kaberle? We saw the Hurricanes make that mistake before.

Maybe he won't be Kaberle but he could be. And throwing a huge contract at this guy with his age and injury history would be a big mistake in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
What's your points? Tucker is your lone argumentation and yet I'm crazy? What are your arguments?
Tucker is simply the most obvious example. You could look at Kovalchuk or tons of others as well. You think making a list of these kinds of contracts would make a difference? Why? My point is valid on its face. And - we have no buyouts left. So if we **** up we can't mothball him the way we did with Kaberle and Gomez.

Six years is nuts for a 34 year old showing decline with bad knees.
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Tucker was a crash and bang player. They fade away rather quickly and badly. Markov is all about intelligence. 40 years old defensmen are not that rare. And I perfectly know that he will be done at the end of a 5-6 years contract. Yet he could then be a #6 d-man, second unit PP specialist. And the discount on the cap hit would allow Habs to sign other players, which they wouldn't be able to do if he signs for 3 years at 5M in average.
The guy's knees are made of glass. One hit and he's done. Then we'd be on the hook for six years... no way we should do this. I don't even like four years.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 11-20-2013 at 01:00 PM.
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Old
11-20-2013, 12:47 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
That's a common belief that Bergevin is dealing with Diaz before Subban and Markov. But honnestly, the only thing we know is that he has met his agent. It could very well be a preliminary meeting to exchange figures, for Bergevin to know what he will face. Then there's nothing we know. Bergevin could have very well shake the agent's hand and say "let's meet up later this year" while he now starts negociating with Subban and Markov.

I don't know, I may be wrong, but really, we don't know squat.
Point taken. Reports aren't always accurate, especially when it comes to negotiations.

Markov appears to be principled and set in his ways -- he's one of those rare players who wants stay in Montreal. I was hoping for a 2-year deal but that seems highly unrealistic, since it's very likely he'll get double that from another team. He's risky from a health standpoint, but has high hockey IQ and does so many things well. I can't see the Habs not signing him.

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11-20-2013, 12:52 PM
  #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If that happens I will be very pissed.

And if we sign him for that amount, what the hell do we sign Subban for?
Uh, I guess if we sign Markov for 4yrs @ $6.5M, I'd expect Subban to be... 3yrs @ $6.0M... since he's our #2 guy behind Markov?

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11-20-2013, 01:11 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Uh, I guess if we sign Markov for 4yrs @ $6.5M, I'd expect Subban to be... 3yrs @ $6.0M... since he's our #2 guy behind Markov?
That's probably what will happen.

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11-20-2013, 01:21 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If that happens I will be very pissed. I don't think he's a 6.5 million dollar guy even now. Four years from now? Yikes...
Me too. There's been talk around here that Markov has always given the team a hometown discount. Do people care to explain that one to me? Markov has always been the highest paid player on the team. Even with the uncertainty after his first injury I was certain he was going sign for less than 5.75m but he signed for the same amount. That's why I can see him sign for the same amount again. 5.75m x 3 with the way he's playing is fair market value.

My beef is with Marc Bergevin. I've lost all confidence in his ability to negotiate a contract.

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11-20-2013, 01:33 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Bryson View Post
My beef is with Marc Bergevin. I've lost all confidence in his ability to negotiate a contract.
I hope Bergevin takes into account that Markov had an equally outstanding start of the season last year but gassed out in the second half and seemed to lose a lot of jump in his skating.

Here is the Markov clan negotiating while he's playing major minutes and at his best again -- can he keep it up over a full, non-shortened season? He's sure going to make demands as if he could.

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11-20-2013, 01:59 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
I hope Bergevin takes into account that Markov had an equally outstanding start of the season last year but gassed out in the second half and seemed to lose a lot of jump in his skating.

Here is the Markov clan negotiating while he's playing major minutes and at his best again -- can he keep it up over a full, non-shortened season? He's sure going to make demands as if he could.
Good point and I don't think he can. That's why I am surprised to see MT lean on Markov so much this early while parking his Norris trophy winner on the bench during his prime physical years. Contract aside, we are going to need a well rested and healthy Markov for the playoffs.

Might be time to start thinking about re-uniting Markov-Emelin again and re-unite Markov-Subban for the playoffs again if need be? Just a thought...

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11-20-2013, 02:15 PM
  #260
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6.5 for Markov is not that bad. He's the third most valuable player on this team. Cap is going up. Our defense is not as bad as everyone is making it out to seem, especially with the addition of Emelin. I think that is reflected in the SV % for both Price and Budaj.

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11-20-2013, 03:11 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Markov - 4 years @ $6.5M

Get ready for it.
thanks for ruining my lunch

and i LOVE markov to boot

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Old
11-20-2013, 03:24 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Runner77 View Post
I hope Bergevin takes into account that Markov had an equally outstanding start of the season last year but gassed out in the second half and seemed to lose a lot of jump in his skating.

Here is the Markov clan negotiating while he's playing major minutes and at his best again -- can he keep it up over a full, non-shortened season? He's sure going to make demands as if he could.
Last year was different. 1-it was his first full year(played KHL 1st half) after missing nearly 2 full years 2-it was a very condensed schedule with less days off 3-Subban missed time early on giving more responsibility and ice time the first 2-3 weeks.

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11-20-2013, 03:33 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If that happens I will be very pissed. I don't think he's a 6.5 million dollar guy even now. Four years from now? Yikes...

And if we sign him for that amount, what the hell do we sign Subban for?

You mean like Thomas Kaberle? We saw the Hurricanes make that mistake before.

Maybe he won't be Kaberle but he could be. And throwing a huge contract at this guy with his age and injury history would be a big mistake in my opinion.

Tucker is simply the most obvious example. You could look at Kovalchuk or tons of others as well. You think making a list of these kinds of contracts would make a difference? Why? My point is valid on its face. And - we have no buyouts left. So if we **** up we can't mothball him the way we did with Kaberle and Gomez.

Six years is nuts for a 34 year old showing decline with bad knees.

The guy's knees are made of glass. One hit and he's done. Then we'd be on the hook for six years... no way we should do this. I don't even like four years.
Let's just say he does turn in to kaberle, which I highly doubt. He was still able to draw interest from a Stanley cup champion, and another couple of teams still took a chance on him after that experiment too.

So I fail to see how the worst case scenario that you came up with means that the habs are stuck with him. If kaberle still had value at that time, so will markov.

Same thing with gonchar. Teams always go after this kind of asset and are willing to take a chance.

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11-20-2013, 03:38 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
(...) after missing nearly 2 full years (...)
By the same token, he could probably argue that he's got 2 years less wear and tear than your average 35 year-old defenseman.

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11-20-2013, 03:46 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
If that happens I will be very pissed. I don't think he's a 6.5 million dollar guy even now. Four years from now? Yikes...

And if we sign him for that amount, what the hell do we sign Subban for?

You mean like Thomas Kaberle? We saw the Hurricanes make that mistake before.

Maybe he won't be Kaberle but he could be. And throwing a huge contract at this guy with his age and injury history would be a big mistake in my opinion.

Tucker is simply the most obvious example. You could look at Kovalchuk or tons of others as well. You think making a list of these kinds of contracts would make a difference? Why? My point is valid on its face. And - we have no buyouts left. So if we **** up we can't mothball him the way we did with Kaberle and Gomez.

Six years is nuts for a 34 year old showing decline with bad knees.

The guy's knees are made of glass. One hit and he's done. Then we'd be on the hook for six years... no way we should do this. I don't even like four years.
Your "knee argument" doesn't hold. If a player is on the long term IR, he doesn't count against the cap.

I agree 6 years seems long and risky, but like a previous poster said, d-men like Markov always draw interest. Markov always have been and will always be better than Kaberle. Even at 40 years old a team could want him for the end of a season.

And a 5 years deal will lower the cap hit, which is something all teams do except Montreal, it seems...

Again: nobody can replace him for the next 2-3 years. And nobody on the UFA come close to Markov's level. Sign him 3 years would be ideal, but I'm ready for 5 years if it means a discount.

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11-20-2013, 04:28 PM
  #266
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Good point and I don't think he can. That's why I am surprised to see MT lean on Markov so much this early while parking his Norris trophy winner on the bench during his prime physical years. Contract aside, we are going to need a well rested and healthy Markov for the playoffs.

Might be time to start thinking about re-uniting Markov-Emelin again and re-unite Markov-Subban for the playoffs again if need be? Just a thought...
you know the difference in icetime is 15 seconds right...

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11-20-2013, 04:35 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Last year was different. 1-it was his first full year(played KHL 1st half) after missing nearly 2 full years 2-it was a very condensed schedule with less days off 3-Subban missed time early on giving more responsibility and ice time the first 2-3 weeks.
You are conveniently ignoring the age factor. He's not going to get better as he gets older dude. It doesn't work that way.
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Let's just say he does turn in to kaberle, which I highly doubt. He was still able to draw interest from a Stanley cup champion, and another couple of teams still took a chance on him after that experiment too.
His contract was at its end with the Leafs, hence the interest from the Bs. The Canes made the big investment and lost big time as he showed up noticeably out of shape. I don't think it would be this bad with Markov either btw... but as you get older you're going to decline.

As for the Canes being able to pawn him off on us... We just have to hope that somebody is as stupid as we were? Not going to happen. Secondly, GMs knew that there were amnesty buyouts coming up and were more willing to take on stupid contracts because they knew they could bury them.

Gauthier was an idiot. We can't bank on some other team being this stupid, esp since they know they can't amnesty him out.
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
So I fail to see how the worst case scenario that you came up with means that the habs are stuck with him. If kaberle still had value at that time, so will markov.

Same thing with gonchar. Teams always go after this kind of asset and are willing to take a chance.
And if Markov declines next year and the year after... folks will just take four more years of an over the hill blueliner... why?

NOBODY is going to want to be stuck with a player that long.
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Your "knee argument" doesn't hold. If a player is on the long term IR, he doesn't count against the cap.
Sure... if he never plays another game. But if he comes back into the lineup and sucks then we're screwed. We're not going to be able to force him onto long term IR if he's healthy enough to play and we won't be able to mothball him either. We'll just be stuck with a long stupid contract.
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
I agree 6 years seems long and risky, but like a previous poster said, d-men like Markov always draw interest. Markov always have been and will always be better than Kaberle. Even at 40 years old a team could want him for the end of a season.
Most players are out of the league in their late 30s. There's zero reason to believe that Markov is going to be good at 40 and drawing interest. Your belief is based on wishful thinking.
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
And a 5 years deal will lower the cap hit, which is something all teams do except Montreal, it seems...

Again: nobody can replace him for the next 2-3 years. And nobody on the UFA come close to Markov's level. Sign him 3 years would be ideal, but I'm ready for 5 years if it means a discount.
Like I said, in three years he won't be the player he is now anyway. So we're not going to be able to replace him no matter what.

We're better off biting the bullet now and dealing him for something that can help us down the road. And we should've done this a long time ago.

If we were contenders? Different story. Sign him and go for it. But that's not really the case. People are thinking with their heart instead of their heads here.

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11-20-2013, 05:33 PM
  #268
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6.5 for Markov is not that bad. He's the third most valuable player on this team. Cap is going up. Our defense is not as bad as everyone is making it out to seem, especially with the addition of Emelin. I think that is reflected in the SV % for both Price and Budaj.
The cap is going up, to? 68M?

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Old
11-20-2013, 07:28 PM
  #269
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$5.5-6.0M per year for 3 years... although he could lose enough game by the third year to make him overpaid then. But he will still have some game three years from now.

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11-20-2013, 07:32 PM
  #270
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$5.5-6.0M per year for 3 years... although he could lose enough game by the third year to make him overpaid then. But he will still have some game three years from now.
That would be a decent deal. But he probably wants 4 years. If we agree to the 4th year on the condition of a salary drop to 4m, it'll reduce his cap hit over the 4 years.

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11-20-2013, 08:10 PM
  #271
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I'd be very curious to know what kind of deal we could broker with Edmonton for Markov. They are desperate for a top guy that can play 25+ and contribute offensively.

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11-21-2013, 09:50 AM
  #272
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On how many teams would Markov be a #1?

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11-21-2013, 10:04 AM
  #273
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On how many teams would Markov be a #1?
Edmonton, Calgary, Dallas, Anaheim, Buffalo, Carolina, Colorado, Florida, NJ, Islanders, Philly, Tampa, Caps... debateable on a handful of others. Almost half the league.

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11-21-2013, 10:10 AM
  #274
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On how many teams would Markov be a #1?
I would say (quick estimation):
  • Buffalo
  • Detroit (not sure, but it's pretty close)
  • Tampa Bay (Hedman's not there yet)
  • Ottawa (it's debatable, I know, but Karlsson is horrible defensively)
  • Florida
  • Philadelphia
  • Washington (not sure)
  • NY Islanders
  • Carolina (Faulk isn't there yet)
  • New Jersey
  • Colombus
  • Dallas
  • Colorado
  • Edmonton
  • Anaheim (not sure)
  • Calgary

Now, for many of those teams, Markov would be #1 short term, as they have defensmen that will soon be better than Markov.

It is just an opinion, tho. But I'm pretty sure I'm not far from the truth while some are highly debatable.

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11-21-2013, 10:43 AM
  #275
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You are conveniently ignoring the age factor. He's not going to get better as he gets older dude. It doesn't work that way.
This year he looks closer to 09-10 form than 12-13 form.

He doesn't have to get better. At 90% of what he is now, he's a top 2 NHL d-man. At 80% of what he is now he is still a top 4 d-man on just about every NHL team.

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