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Old
11-20-2013, 12:53 PM
  #26
SeanCWombBroom
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Best player on the team.

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11-20-2013, 03:07 PM
  #27
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Best player on the team.

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11-20-2013, 03:35 PM
  #28
OgbertTheNerd
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What kind of contract do you guys think Downie should/could get? Currently he's making $2.6 million a year, which of course ends after this season.

Since the 2009 - 2010 season, he's scored 130 points in 229 games. Pretty good for a goon.

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11-20-2013, 03:47 PM
  #29
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Well it depends on how the rest of the season plays out of course but I would think he'd be getting something between his current rate and Matt Read money. ~3mil seems fair to me.

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11-20-2013, 04:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
What kind of contract do you guys think Downie should/could get? Currently he's making $2.6 million a year, which of course ends after this season.

Since the 2009 - 2010 season, he's scored 130 points in 229 games. Pretty good for a goon.
I think he is actually kind of a hard player to judge what he will get... injuries may pull him down a bit, but he has quite a unique skillset.

But seeing as he averages 47 points a year you would think circa 3.3-4 million a year... that is his going rate really if guys that kind of age with that kind of production are looked at who signed recently (Brouwer, Read, Simmonds, Perron are the most similar really, I know they are not all UFAs, but 4mill+ generally aint given out to guys who are not 50 point player, never-mind ones who have been injured a lot, which will prob pull his value to the lower end of the range... 3.5ish)

I personally do not think he will be resigned unless someone is moved or they know the cap is going up by 5mill... as if he was that would certainly put spending on forwards over 40million...

Then next year: (just an educated guess...)

Hartnell (4.75) Giroux (8.275) Voracek (4.25)
Schenn (~2.75-3) Lecavalier (4.5) Simmonds (3.975)
Downie (3.5) Couturier (1.75) Read (3.625)
Rinaldo (0.75) Laughton (0.925) Hall (0.6)
Rosehill (0.675)

That would put spending on forwards at 40.325 million... I imagine it is more likely that they put Raffl, Cousins, Laughton etc at 3LW. 40+ on forwards is unsustainable really, 37.5-38 is fine.

D

Coburn (4.5) UFA (4.5-5.5)
Streit (5.25) Schenn (3.6)
Grossmann (3.5) Gus (~1.5)
#7 (0.75-1)

So overall with Downie resigned they would be at around 59-60 million tied down... with 2 goalies (Mason ofc + backup) and a D man to sign.

If you believe Jacobs and a few others (well a lot of people who are 'in the know') most imagine the cap will be in the 67-71 range next year.

Mason (4mill)
Backup (1-1.5mill)
D man (4.5-5.5mill)

So if the cap goes to 70 Downie could maybe be squeezed under... if 67... no way.


Last edited by Appleyard: 11-20-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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Old
11-20-2013, 04:30 PM
  #31
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This was such a shrewd move by Holmgren.

I like Talbot as a human, but he's not a good NHL player. I don't even see why people consider him a good penalty killer, he's merely average at this task. And he has not played with grit or energy since he left Pittsburgh.

Downie has been great. He has made some great defensive plays in the neutral zone, cutting off passes and sending the play back into the o-zone. He's just good at corraling pucks and keeping the cycle alive. He's made the third line a really exciting one to watch.

I'd certainly welcome him back on a new contract if the price is right.

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Old
11-20-2013, 04:47 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
The team averages around 73.5 inches average height overall... so about the 10th biggest in the NHL.

Our most recent forward combination was 73.2 inches. Our forwards are above average in the NHL in terms of size (no stats for this year, but average forward height usually around 72.5-72.8)

The median height of our forwards is 74 inches... 8/12 are over 6ft1 (forward average).

Our most recent D combination was 73 inches. That is under average in the NHL (no stats for this year, but the average height is usually around 73.5-73.8)

Our current lines average 73.2 inches in height (including Mason... as all NHL teams averages include goalies, so would skew if not included.)

The median height of the current lineup (including goalies, 20 man team) is 74 inches... over NHL average by almost an inch. 13/20 players are above 73 inches (NHL average)

The average height in the NHL is 73.2 inches.

So while the team is by no means enormous... they are certainly above NHL average, even at the moment with a pretty small lineup compared to what they could put out.
Yeah but they are not a physically imposing group of forwards. They are all light in the pants.

The two most physical forwards Hartnell and Simmonds are @ 210 and 190 lbs respectively.

We have tall guys like Vinny + Voracek that aren't physical and physical guys like Rinaldo and Downie that aren't big.

Outside of Rosehill does this team have anyone over 220lbs?

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Old
11-20-2013, 05:04 PM
  #33
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Love Downie. Exactly what the team need to balance out the top 9.

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Old
11-21-2013, 11:00 PM
  #34
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Make that 5 assists and a plus 4 for Downie

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Old
11-21-2013, 11:43 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
I think he is actually kind of a hard player to judge what he will get... injuries may pull him down a bit, but he has quite a unique skillset.

But seeing as he averages 47 points a year you would think circa 3.3-4 million a year... that is his going rate really if guys that kind of age with that kind of production are looked at who signed recently (Brouwer, Read, Simmonds, Perron are the most similar really, I know they are not all UFAs, but 4mill+ generally aint given out to guys who are not 50 point player, never-mind ones who have been injured a lot, which will prob pull his value to the lower end of the range... 3.5ish)

I personally do not think he will be resigned unless someone is moved or they know the cap is going up by 5mill... as if he was that would certainly put spending on forwards over 40million...

Then next year: (just an educated guess...)

Hartnell (4.75) Giroux (8.275) Voracek (4.25)
Schenn (~2.75-3) Lecavalier (4.5) Simmonds (3.975)
Downie (3.5) Couturier (1.75) Read (3.625)
Rinaldo (0.75) Laughton (0.925) Hall (0.6)
Rosehill (0.675)

That would put spending on forwards at 40.325 million... I imagine it is more likely that they put Raffl, Cousins, Laughton etc at 3LW. 40+ on forwards is unsustainable really, 37.5-38 is fine.

D

Coburn (4.5) UFA (4.5-5.5)
Streit (5.25) Schenn (3.6)
Grossmann (3.5) Gus (~1.5)
#7 (0.75-1)

So overall with Downie resigned they would be at around 59-60 million tied down... with 2 goalies (Mason ofc + backup) and a D man to sign.

If you believe Jacobs and a few others (well a lot of people who are 'in the know') most imagine the cap will be in the 67-71 range next year.

Mason (4mill)
Backup (1-1.5mill)
D man (4.5-5.5mill)

So if the cap goes to 70 Downie could maybe be squeezed under... if 67... no way.
****ing 8.275 million. So undeserving. Should have been a 6 mill player

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Old
11-22-2013, 07:17 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
****ing 8.275 million. So undeserving. Should have been a 6 mill player
Tbf through the last 207 reg season games he had 217 points, last 44 playoff games 50 points.

So in the previous 251 games before he signed he had 261 points. That is top 5 in the NHL during that span (and 250 games is a long time... about a third of most decent players careers.) so he was always going to get paid 7.5+ really. Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos and a Sedin are the only guys better in that span (St. Louis and Sedin 2 are close... so he has been a legitimate top 5 point scoring forward through 250 games, and PKs well on top and runs a PP, and is ok defensively. (his D is much overly maligned recently... just as it was over praised a few years back.)

He has 13 points in his last 16 as well... while playing pretty crappy at times, and I imagine he improves his pace, he is looking like Giroux again now.

274 points in the last 272 games is pretty impressive in todays NHL in anyones book.

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11-22-2013, 07:32 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
****ing 8.275 million. So undeserving. Should have been a 6 mill player
4 players have more points since 2010...4.

You have to move on from the last CBA, there are no more 12 year contracts.

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11-22-2013, 07:35 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
****ing 8.275 million. So undeserving. Should have been a 6 mill player
I think the Flyers should have waited till this offseason and tried to get a deal done at $8 million a year or slightly less.

Expecting Giroux to sign for only $6m a year shows you're completely out of touch with contracts for top players under the new CBA.

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Old
11-22-2013, 08:19 AM
  #39
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4 players have more points since 2010...4.

You have to move on from the last CBA, there are no more 12 year contracts.
/End of discussion

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Old
11-22-2013, 08:20 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
Tbf through the last 207 reg season games he had 217 points, last 44 playoff games 50 points.

So in the previous 251 games before he signed he had 261 points. That is top 5 in the NHL during that span (and 250 games is a long time... about a third of most decent players careers.) so he was always going to get paid 7.5+ really. Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos and a Sedin are the only guys better in that span (St. Louis and Sedin 2 are close... so he has been a legitimate top 5 point scoring forward through 250 games, and PKs well on top and runs a PP, and is ok defensively. (his D is much overly maligned recently... just as it was over praised a few years back.)

He has 13 points in his last 16 as well... while playing pretty crappy at times, and I imagine he improves his pace, he is looking like Giroux again now.

274 points in the last 272 games is pretty impressive in todays NHL in anyones book.
Yea I get that he has scored a ton of points but he is just not as dominant as any of the guys you mentioned. And he is a liability out zone. I expected him to max out at 7.5 and him to possibly take a discount. 6 mill is just my personal opinion of what a max contract should be for a nhl player considering garunteed contracts. If we were going to sign him to a max contract anyway we should have waited for this offseason and see what happen. Worst case scenario he gets offer sheeted and we match. That is obviously unlikely as top players don't have that happen.

And IMO you don't give that big a contract to someone who has only played really well for one year. And was underwhelming while still scoring pts the following year in a shortend season. 8.5 is not deserving of a player that you don't really notice that much.

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Old
11-22-2013, 10:27 AM
  #41
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Again, Downie looked great last night. Two great plays to Read, and that third line sure isn't playing like a third line.

Edit: Granted, this was against a terrible Buffalo Sabres team. We need the wins though...

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11-22-2013, 01:04 PM
  #42
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the current chemistry Downie has with Couts and Read cannot be ignored. chemistry is a tricky thing, and when you get it, you don't just throw it away. Couts and Read have finally come to life thanks in part to Downie. i wouldn't be so quick to just let him go if this keeps up.

Downie/Couts/Read could be one of the best 3rd lines in hockey if they all stay healthy. if all it takes to sign Downie is 3.5m, you do it in a heartbeat.

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Old
11-22-2013, 01:09 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
What kind of contract do you guys think Downie should/could get? Currently he's making $2.6 million a year, which of course ends after this season.

Since the 2009 - 2010 season, he's scored 130 points in 229 games. Pretty good for a goon.
Wouldn't surprise me if he gets between $4.5 and $5.5 million for a four or five year deal. He's a relatively valuable asset. If the Flyers don't pay it, I could see someone else scooping him up.

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11-22-2013, 01:35 PM
  #44
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As an Avalanche fan (living outside of Philly though), I'm glad to see Downie is doing well with the Flyers and I'm glad I get to keep watching him play. Always loved him on the Avs. Great team first guy.

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11-22-2013, 01:39 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Wouldn't surprise me if he gets between $4.5 and $5.5 million for a four or five year deal. He's a relatively valuable asset. If the Flyers don't pay it, I could see someone else scooping him up.
I can see someone paying 4.5-5... but I can't imagine a decent team giving that cash to him... in terms of PPG he is in the 3.5-4.25 range for guys a similar age in the last 2 years. And his injury history probably takes him away from the top edge of that bracket.

4.5 would put him in the top 35-40 highest paid wingers in the league... 5.5 would be top 15. I know a lot of those deals were signed a few years back... but off the last two years as well 4.5+ is reserved for guys who are 50+ pointers, and 5+ for 60 point guys.

Though the Leafs did their damn best to ruin that for everyone.

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11-22-2013, 03:05 PM
  #46
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Steve Downie. Has the best mustache on the team.
He looks like Burt Reynolds.

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11-22-2013, 05:20 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Wouldn't surprise me if he gets between $4.5 and $5.5 million for a four or five year deal. He's a relatively valuable asset. If the Flyers don't pay it, I could see someone else scooping him up.
Heh?

I guess two plumbers like Clarkson and Clowe got paid this year but I can't see Downie get that kind of dough.

What did Read get? I can't see him getting more than Read. Maybe a team like EDM over pays because he would be a good fit with their young skilled players.

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11-22-2013, 05:25 PM
  #48
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LOVE DOWNIE! Great fit in this organization, hes a warrior. Hes got the best mustache on the team and he can score (and pass) too! Flyers were 3-8 before Downie trade. Flyers are now 6-2-2 since getting him. Downie has 5 points in 6 games with Philly, and a plus-5 rating. Odviously its not all Downie, but he doesnt hurt the team (tho he took a bad penalty in Winnipeg)

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11-22-2013, 05:31 PM
  #49
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I could see a team like Edmonton throwing a ton of money at him because of his grit. I'm not convinced he's resigned, even though I would like it.

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Old
11-22-2013, 05:54 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
Best player on the team.
This is 100% accurate.

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